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Post by nitehawk55 on Sept 9, 2006 14:51:40 GMT -7
OK , believe or not I have never done mods to any of my guitars . I have always just gone with the stock p'ups in all my guitars and never ventured beyond that . I'm looking for some suggestions from you blues players out there who have changed out your p'ups and what the result was . I'm thinking of changing one of my Strats to start and maybe the neck pickup and possibly the bridge in my 52 Tele RI . Trouble is there is so many makes out there and all of them claiming to be the best so i'm looking for actual results and any other helpful info . And hey , if you got a set for sale , well I might consider that too
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Post by tele1962 on Sept 10, 2006 16:54:34 GMT -7
Many of yeserday's Blue's greats played Fender Strats or Tele's with Fender PU's. That's what established the sound. Maybe today's Blues require a really fancy PU. Have Blues changed? Tough question as to which PU is the best for blues. BB King does it on Gibson HB's on a hollow body guitar. Duane Allman did it on an old flame top Les Paul with PAF's, Eric Clapton recorded Layla, etc. on old Strats with Fender PU's...Stevie Ray got pretty good blues sound with old Fender amps, a beat up '63 Strat and Fender Pu's... Roy Buchanan got some good blues tones out of a stock '53 Telecaster. I'm not an ultimate blues player, but I can get the tone right. Totally stock 1962 Stratocaster and a mid 60's Vibrolux amp. Nothing fancy , nothing special...no magic potions. That seems to be good enough for me! Don't worry so much about hotrodding. It's almost never the answer!
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Post by nitehawk55 on Sept 10, 2006 17:58:39 GMT -7
That's always been my feeling pretty much too tele1962 , but I wonder sometimes if i'm not missing out on something because of all the hype when a player says he installed some brand X wonder pickups in his Strat or Tele and now it sounds incredible . I,ve got a good selection of various Strats and a couple G&L's and they all sound pretty good to my ear with some tweeks and adjustments . I guess you answer is probably the right way of thinking....if it ain't broke , don't fix it !
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Post by tele1962 on Sept 10, 2006 20:34:50 GMT -7
You sound like a thinking person. I have Lindy Fralins in one of my guitars...a non-collectable Fender. They're great! All the hype is not just hype. Some of these PU's are awesome, but to what end? If I have a beat up Squier or Mexican Fender, and really like the action, let's say...then maybe I put in some Kinmans or whatever and have myself a pretty good guitar. But if I've got a great old Fender or a nice Custom Shop with good Fender PU's in it, why would I want to suddenly change that to reflect something else? Why would I take PU's out of a PRS and put it in my Les Paul? Or put G&L 's in my Fender Telecaster? I want my Fender to sound like a Fender.
Can I ask what type of Fenders you have in which you'd swap PU's? RI's?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Sept 10, 2006 22:02:35 GMT -7
Both my Grosh Strat and Grosh Tele came with Fralin Blues Specials, and they really are great. At least I like them. Sound clips of the Strat here: www.myspace.com/bluesallianceThat's all neck pickup through my THD Flexi-50.
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Post by nitehawk55 on Sept 11, 2006 13:20:54 GMT -7
My computer sound system went on the fritz some time ago and never replaced it . Thanks anyway bentop, those are one of many a person could consider .
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Post by hollowman on Sept 11, 2006 14:26:05 GMT -7
I agree with Tele1962. I have a 93 jap tele custom re-issue that I love the action, weight, neck, but the stock pickups seemed thin. I dropped in some Fralins, blues specials, and huge difference. I have this guitar for gigs where i don't want to take any of my vintage teles and it works out great, i get to put all the wear and tear on the player that now sounds killer. Of course it helps also to run it through my maz jr which could make a kazoo sound like a million bucks!!! I really dig the fralins tho, and I think you would be pleased if you decided to put them in one of your guitars. They came highly recommended from my luthier and several players that i know.
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Post by Matt H. on Sept 12, 2006 4:49:03 GMT -7
I love Voodoo pickups for blues. I have heard Fralin's in a couple of guitars and they are really good too. I personally think Voodoo ones sound a little more true. You probably can't go wrong with either. Peter Florance makes the Voodoo pickups. Give him a call and he'll recommend one of his model's for you - very knowledgeable and helpful. Here's the link- www.voodoopickups.com/voodoohome.htmlHe also does some of the pickup's for Crook Guitars. -
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messenger
Full Member
life is good!
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Post by messenger on Sept 12, 2006 8:32:31 GMT -7
bought a carvin california carve top last year.was wondering if anyone else had any opinions on these.
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Post by Hohn on Sept 12, 2006 15:46:46 GMT -7
Both my Grosh Strat and Grosh Tele came with Fralin Blues Specials, and they really are great. At least I like them. Sound clips of the Strat here: www.myspace.com/bluesallianceThat's all neck pickup through my THD Flexi-50. The Fralin Blues are good pups. I had a set oem in my Zion strat, but changed them to Kinmans because I prefer the Kinman sound. The Fralins are probably more authentic sounding (including hum), but I'm not after authentic so much as my own interpretation of that sound (minus hum). jh
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Post by nitehawk55 on Sept 12, 2006 17:19:31 GMT -7
I looked on ebay and ACME guitars has a bunch of pre wired drop in's listed for Fenders with different Fralin's and other brands of pickups listed . This looks to be the most logical way to go as you can swap these out easy . If you copy and paste this number below on the ebay item search ( where you would normally type a search word ) it will take you to the site . Sorry i'm no computer wiz You fellows in the know , if you could have a look at these and give me your opinion and price I would appreciate it . The number is.... 150022848583 Thanks !!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2006 17:33:20 GMT -7
I am huge fan of the Lollar Blackface Strat set. ;D
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Post by nitehawk55 on Sept 12, 2006 17:42:53 GMT -7
I think Loller is also sold by this ACME guitar as well . Geez , maybe I should buy one of everything........ Looks like a good set-up having everything set to install . I think I would get a pickguard as well and just make it up as a loaded pickguard so I can just drop it in .
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Post by Dr.T on Sept 14, 2006 11:49:57 GMT -7
My strat deluxe is armed with Voodoo pickups, they sound great. Can anyone tell me if they are cool for Tele too? I' own a '52 reissue too...
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Post by JD on Sept 15, 2006 3:40:32 GMT -7
I have the Fralins that Callaham Guitars has underwound for him in my JV strat. For a strat I like going with a less hot pickup as according to Bill Callaham it is less harsh sounding especially in the bridge position. I let the amp and pedals do the work to boost my signal. Compared to the stock Tex Mex in my JV Strat and the stock Texas Specials in my Roadhouse Strat, the underwound Fralins are not as harsh in the bridge position.
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Post by Matt H. on Sept 15, 2006 6:05:34 GMT -7
Dr. T
I am building a custom tele right now and am puttin Voodoo te-60's in it. I let you know how it sounds when I'm done. I bet it'll sound awesome just like my hardtail strat w/ voodoo
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Post by Dr.T on Sept 15, 2006 7:26:17 GMT -7
Thanks Matt H. , 60's are exactly in my mind... hoping they sound like those on strat
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Post by dock66 on Sept 15, 2006 7:32:58 GMT -7
I am huge fan of the Lollar Blackface Strat set. ;D Arun I also like Lollar Blackface Strat. dock66
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Post by Dr.T on Sept 16, 2006 13:33:21 GMT -7
I've heard about Fralins for Tele. Seem that they are great, some folks think they're better than Voodoo 60's. Anyone can tell me the difference in "Blues Special" between Stock and Hybrid staggered? Benttop or Hollowman, can U tell me please which of this two models have on your Tele?
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Post by tele1962 on Sept 16, 2006 16:27:27 GMT -7
To get Fralins to sound like a Fender ( or as close to exact as it gets)...get the VH Models. Stands for Vintage Hot. Don't even know if Lindy is winding these any more, but they sounded like Fender PU's, and weren't colored like the Blues Specials.
Guys, remember the whole point here. Do I want the Telecaster to sound great in any direction, or do I want a very dedicated Fender sound? Let's get very blunt here and cut through the malaise of opinion. Lollar sounds great, Kinmann is great, Fralins are great, etc etc. They're ALL great. But most of these "color" the Fender tones to create something just slightly off the true Fender tone.
If that's OK, pick any given one of the mfg.'s. All good. Who cares. These type of questions...which PU is best...blah blah ...are leading questions that eventually get to " this is what " I " like! And see? You got at least 6 opinions. But also note that not one guy asked if you wanted to color the true Fender sound.
The trouble with forums is we get a lot of " this is what "I" bought...see what " I" have...please commend me on "MY" purchase! Sometimes that's cool, but sometimes it answers absolutely nothing.
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Post by RC on Sept 16, 2006 16:53:23 GMT -7
To get Fralins to sound like a Fender ( or as close to exact as it gets)...get the VH Models. Stands for Vintage Hot. Don't even know if Lindy is winding these any more, but they sounded like Fender PU's, and weren't colored like the Blues Specials. Guys, remember the whole point here. Do I want the Telecaster to sound great in any direction, or do I want a very dedicated Fender sound? Let's get very blunt here and cut through the malaise of opinion. Lollar sounds great, Kinmann is great, Fralins are great, etc etc. They're ALL great. But most of these "color" the Fender tones to create something just slightly off the true Fender tone. If that's OK, pick any given one of the mfg.'s. All good. Who cares. These type of questions...which PU is best...blah blah ...are leading questions that eventually get to " this is what " I " like! And see? You got at least 6 opinions. But also note that not one guy asked if you wanted to color the true Fender sound. The trouble with forums is we get a lot of " this is what "I" bought...see what " I" have...please commend me on "MY" purchase! Sometimes that's cool, but sometimes it answers absolutely nothing. O.K I'll bite, what dose a true Fender sound like ? Because I don't think I've ever heard two that sound the same.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2006 17:14:56 GMT -7
First of all what is the true fender sound? Vintage fender pickups can vary quite a bit in terms of output, winds, sound etc, not mention that no two strats are the same either. To say that there is one specific sound would mean that there was only one specific fender strat pickup with an exact number of winds or certain sound that means Fender. That is simply not true otherwise strat players would all sound the same with only the ways they approach their instruments being the differing factor. I am not saying that some single coils sound like humbuckers. Of course single coils have a distinct sound, nonetheless no two single coils will sound exactly the same and some will sound very different from each other. There are a lot of guys building pickups these days and whether or not they are building pickups that are 'vintage' correct is debatable. I do know from trying pickups like Lollar, Fralin, Duncan, Fender, Suhr, even non-traditional pickups like Kinmans and Bardens that no 2 pickups or pickup sets are exactly the same. For me Lollar does the trick compared to some amazing vintage examples that I have played. I have also played Vintage strats that sounded awful. I don't think one pickup is the best, but the pickup that works for you is the best one for you. I don't think there is anything wrong with trying out other pickups, a lot of great players routinely experiment with all aspects of their guitars trying to find what works for them. I think fender can make a great strat pickup, but are they as consistent today as they were 40-50 yrs ago? I don't think so. In the end, guys who are building single coils as fender replacements with the purpose of them being as vintage as possible, are not moving away from the fender sound. Each company might have certain qualities that are intrinsically them. Fralins and Lollar pickups for example, but it is the same thing as having a certain worker in the Fender Factory wind you a pickup. They sound of them will depend on who was winding them that day. Does it matter if it was Abigail Ybarra, or Jason Lollar, Alan Hamel or Lindy Fralin. Each of them leaves their mark on the pickups they wind. The pickups are all made from similar materials or from the same materials as back then, but they still all vary somewhat from one another. All the 'Fender' single coils vary from one another. There was not one guy named Fender who made all the pickups and said that every fender single coil sounds exactly the same with the same number of winds and output. I know the custom shop has been making some great single coils, I also now that Fender makes single coils that don't sound particularly great or are down right awful. Who makes the pickup is beside the point, but it is how they sound that matters. Just to answer your question Nighthawk55 here are links to my posts about the Lollar Blackface pickups. drzamplifiers.proboards41.com/index.cgi?board=strings&action=display&thread=1145682435#1145778453drzamplifiers.proboards41.com/index.cgi?board=strings&action=display&thread=1145682435#1145729990
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Post by tele1962 on Sept 16, 2006 20:42:25 GMT -7
All good points. But the fact of the matter is that Fender Custom Shop PU's sound more like traditional Fender tones than any of the other mfgs. Did Fender PU's sound different one from the next? Well, sure yeah of course. But they stayed within a parameter of tonal quality that was distinct. That's all I'm saying here. What do you want? A Fender guitar with Fender tones means listening to what a vast majority of PU's represented from a long history of that tone. Again, even in 1954, one Strat PU might sound slightly different than another. But they didn't sound like Kinmanns. Any of them. Maybe Kinmann are actually better! BUT...they're not Fender PU's, and we just have to make that decision. Am I replacing what with what? Oh well, what do I know? Back when I had the shop I used to do hundreds of PU swaps a year. Now only a handful for some people who bring in things I might enjoy. Had a nice Strat two weeks ago come in with the guy wanting me to put in Fralins. ( Very nice PU's by the way). Here's what happened. Plugged that Strat into an old BF amp from the 60's and it sounded awesome. Plugged in another with 57/62 CS PU's in it just for fun. The guy who had just put in the Fralins says, "THAT'S the sound! I still like my Fralins in mine, but wow, this one with the 57/62's is THE tone...that's the Fender tone!" Sometimes even when you just sit and listen to customers who are good players with great ears, they wind up educating you! It's always worked for me
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2006 22:39:49 GMT -7
Single coils are single coils to me man. Some are better than others, but I definitely don't believe that Fender can make the only good or convincing representation of a Vintage single coil pickup. I can see what you are saying when you compare a Kinman to a fender single coil, considering Kinmans are far from being a classic single coil pickup. However, I don't see how a single coil from Fender can be more 'fender' than a Fralin or a Lollar especially when these guys are trying to build great vintage sounding single coils. Does that mean a Single coil pickup built by Alan Hamel when he was at the Fender Custom Shop is more 'fender' than one he builds now from his home? If Abigail Ybarra decided to leave Fender and wind her own pickups would they be less 'Fender' sounding? Consider that a lot of famous 'fender' players have switched out the fender single coils in their axes for some of these other manufacturer's products, because they found these new products were more convincing as far as reproducing the sound of a vintage fender single coil pickup. I also think a big part of the Fender Strat sound is the design of the whole instrument. Put the best sounding Fender single coil in a Les Paul. No matter what you do it won't sound like a Strat. While I think we do agree on most things my friend, lets just say we agree to disagree on this. Cheers.
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Post by RC on Sept 16, 2006 23:35:14 GMT -7
Arun, well said. +1 I replaced the stock Fender pup's in my 64 ri Strat which apparently fell tonally at the far edge of that mystical vintage Fender tone range with a set of Black Face Lollar's. To me (which is really all thats important) they sounded more like vintage Fender than the vintage ri Fender pup's did. Here's something else I just recently discovered. I got the chance to play two other Fender Strats that had been change out with Lollar's Black Faces and they both sounded remarkably the same as mine. So maybe Lollar is maintaining some real quality control on these or maybe he just cares about what he puts his name on.
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Post by Dr.T on Sept 17, 2006 2:05:48 GMT -7
All right things. We can only tell our opinion on things we try, keeping in count all possible differences in guitar, strings, pu, playing, cables, rigs, effects, acoustic nerve, uman brain, rooms, how we wake up and if our girl... May be I don't agree with myself of day before!! But sometimes some Z-forum guy's opinion is useful to understand another point of wiew.
So the message is: glad to be part of that, many experts on it (I'm the first asking) , but follow always only what you hear.
Dr.T
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Post by Telemanic on Sept 17, 2006 11:49:08 GMT -7
Agreed, good points. One small problem i see is that yes, if you can own a 62' strat, sure thats "THE" sound. But what if you cant? Thats why the rest go searching for that elusive naturally aged magnet, old material, scatter wound, sound. The market is so flooded with makers trying to claim some fame to there version or variation, that its become muddy waters for sure. Everybody's got a tweak for this or that. But i feel if you think clearly about what do you want it to sound like? dead stock? or do ya want, tweaked this or that? you can begin to sort thru them.
IMO, the stock fender PU's are mostly lacking, and that doesnt mean some guy isnt killin with his downline strat-like guitar, theres too many other variables, and Yeah i think the custom shop PU's are great in most cases, ... but thats the point, the custom shop is doin the same thing fralin, lollar, and all the rest are trying to do, .......and thats replicate the "model" oldie. These guys are just also trying to broaden theyre market share by offering all manner of options. So i dont think if you want the classic fender sound youve gotta stick with fender pick-ups, they dont make'm any more authentic than fralin or whoever! Youve just got to know what your after, and then sort thru all the "vintage" replacements, vs. the "variations", and Then unfortunately, it's no different than trying to find an overdrive,..... you just have to try one and see if it works, .....if not, try another etc. Fender doesnt have the market cornered on making "real" fender pick-ups, so to speak.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Sept 17, 2006 12:15:51 GMT -7
I had one of the best lessons in "vintage" guitar tones when I bought my Variax. Yeah, I have one of those, and it's a fun toy to play with. The interesting thing about it is that the various guitars in that thing are all models of actual guitars they had in their lab when they built the firmware. And you can tell - the Les Paul in that thing is to die for - thick, fat, high output, wonderful sustain, etc. Wow, I wish I had the guitar they used to model, because it is EXACTLY what I would want for many things here. But one thing they did in the Variax that really hacked me off - they only have one Strat and one Tele model in that guitar. The Tele, like the Les Paul, is VERY authentic sounding - I could play the Tele patch all day and you would think I was playing a '52 if I hadn't told you. But the Strat - OMG. What a horrible sounding model. They made quite a big deal about the '56 Strat they used, but its output is way low, and its tone is flat, lifeless, dull - in short, they did an accurate model of the guitar they had there, but the guitar was NOT one of those vintage wonders you always hear about. It was a turd when it shipped in '56, and it's still a turd today, and the software couldn't help. The point is, you either like what you're hearing, or you don't. We have probably more choices today than ever before in the history of music, but what blows my dress up may well step all over your toes. It definitely is interesting to read about all your various experiences, but in the end, I'm about the only guy whose opinion I fully trust, and I got those opinions by buying the wrong stuff and learning along the way. That's an expensive way to learn, but man oh man, do I ever learn it well... "The trouble with learning from experience is you get the lesson after the test." - Neil Keatting.
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Post by Dr.T on Sept 17, 2006 14:05:14 GMT -7
A the end we can say that Fender Custom, Voodoo, Lollar, Fralins and brothers are good choice to have a better sound, model you chose depend on what you're searching. I can only tell that Woodoo's on my strat works as I need and I will try Fralins on Tele. After (only after) I think I could tell you if I'll be satisfied or not...
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Post by Matt H. on Sept 17, 2006 20:47:05 GMT -7
Dr T
That's cool! Let me know how they sound when you install the Fralin's I'll post a clip when I finish my tele w/ Voodoo.
Actually, I should post a clip of the Strat w/ Voodoo. It actually has a switch to turn on the bridge pickup - so you can use the bridge and the neck at the same time. It sounds a lot like a tele that way. It also sounds pretty cool with all 3 pickups at once.
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