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Post by steamroller on Feb 3, 2023 22:13:44 GMT -7
I just want to record my practice. That is it.
1. I want to be able to listen for improvement in my playing.
2. To capture riffs.
3. Lay down a guitar rithm track, and play melody and leads over the top. Maybe vocals somewhere down the line.
Can this be done without a computer or cell phone? I like things simple, preferably portable? Folks, I don't know where to start!
-steamroller-
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Post by ME on Feb 4, 2023 5:29:14 GMT -7
We used a Zoom recorder. H4 model bought quite a while ago.
Lots of features, but pretty much plug and play. Just set it where all instruments had a good mix and let it go. Worked well for us.
I just downloaded onto the computer to listen. It does have an internal speaker, but it’s limited in quality and volume.
ME
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Feb 4, 2023 5:33:21 GMT -7
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Post by nicholas on Feb 4, 2023 7:57:24 GMT -7
I have an older version of that. It's pretty cool. You can record yourself (need a microphone) and save tons of stuff, edit, layer and even burn it to a CD and rock out in your car. I should dust that off and bust it out again. I was actually getting better when I was messing around with that thing. They probably don't make the CD burner version anymore because cars don't even come with CD players any more! Lol. I liked that I could do all that without a computer, because I don't have one. |
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Feb 4, 2023 9:23:54 GMT -7
I’m old enough to have done demos on the original 4 track portastudio on CASSETTE. And we thought we were in high cotton.
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Post by helmi on Feb 4, 2023 9:47:05 GMT -7
I’m old enough to have done demos on the original 4 track portastudio on CASSETTE. And we thought we were in high cotton. Same here. We used a 424 mkII cassette recorder for years. Wish I still had the thing. I have 2 different Tascam digital recorders and don’t know how to use them. another thing you need a college course to learn! |
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Post by LT on Feb 4, 2023 13:18:44 GMT -7
I’m old enough to have done demos on the original 4 track portastudio on CASSETTE. And we thought we were in high cotton. Same here. We used a 424 mkII cassette recorder for years. Wish I still had the thing. I have 2 different Tascam digital recorders and don’t know how to use them. another thing you need a college course to learn! Me too. My pal bought the original version.....I think it ran about $1500 way back then! |
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Post by steamroller on Feb 4, 2023 13:54:59 GMT -7
I have casually checked out the Zoom H2n and also the Tascam DP 006 Porta Studio. 1. Do you think 4 or 6 channels is overkill, for recording my practices or is this something most people would miss, down the line if they did not have the channels. 2. Can I use powered speakers directly from these types of devices (Zoom H2n / DO 006) to avoid the use of a computer? -steamroller- |
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Feb 5, 2023 7:08:13 GMT -7
I would look into the kind of stuff Adam does, with a computer, DAW, and whatever else he does. I don’t have a clue how it all works as I still play a song on the hi res audio system and play along mistakes and all. But with the computer rig you can download or stream backing tracks, record, all of that. It might be a good idea to contact him for some pointers.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Feb 5, 2023 11:13:08 GMT -7
I have casually checked out the Zoom H2n and also the Tascam DP 006 Porta Studio. 1. Do you think 4 or 6 channels is overkill, for recording my practices or is this something most people would miss, down the line if they did not have the channels. 2. Can I use powered speakers directly from these types of devices (Zoom H2n / DO 006) to avoid the use of a computer? -steamroller- Candidly, once you start down this road having more tracks is almost mandatory. You'll find reason to use them. The Zoom H2n has a line out, and apparently provides -10dB, so it "should" be able to feed powered speakers ... but hard to know what that will sound like, and it's not clear there's much control over that output. I didn't see anything online talking about hooking it up to speakers. That Zoom unit looks like a dictaphone with some extra features aimed at recording music, but hard to tell how user friendly all that is in that package. The Tascam's have been around forever, and if you work with others chances are somebody has used one or is familiar with the controls and features. |
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Post by steamroller on Feb 5, 2023 18:59:16 GMT -7
Scenario,
1. One guy, sitting on a chair, guitar in lap, just musing along, and comes upon this perfect riff and solo. He records this to evaluate improvement in his playing, and to save that riff and solo for later development. He keeps on playing.
I have searched this scenario for five days now. Approximately fifteen hours of internet searching. Every article or thread I have read has ended with me needing to acquire a lot of gear. For a lot of money!
Z-Talk posters have given me useful information and advice. I believe you're steering me in the right direction! I would like to end up with more than an old, one track push button cassette deck. But maybe that is where I'm headed!
There must be other musicians like me. I'll report what I find, and what I decide to do, to satisfy the above scenario.
wish me luck!
-steamroller-
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Feb 6, 2023 4:59:21 GMT -7
For super simple, an inexpensive dictaphone may be worth a try. If you ended up wanting more, you’re not out much in the experiment. Digital Voice Recorder 16GB Voice Recorder with Playback for Lectures - USB Rechargeable Dictaphon Upgraded Small Tape Recorder a.co/d/2gPmTrk |
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Post by scottyc13 on Feb 6, 2023 5:56:14 GMT -7
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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 6, 2023 8:45:54 GMT -7
I’m old enough to have done demos on the original 4 track portastudio on CASSETTE. And we thought we were in high cotton. Well, I still have that Tascam AND brand new unopened tapes to go along with it. It's somewhere in the garage....
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Post by steamroller on Feb 6, 2023 10:54:47 GMT -7
Were the Tascam 4-track cassette portastudios and the Fostex 4-track cassette recorders the same type of animal?
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Feb 6, 2023 11:28:56 GMT -7
Were the Tascam 4-track cassette portastudios and the Fostex 4-track cassette recorders the same type of animal? yes. but, really, you don't want to use cassette tape when so much is available in the digital world.
i used a Tascam 4-track cassette for years and then moved to 8 track digital porta-studio and then 24-track. The newest 24 and 32 track digital porta-studios are close to what i paid for my 4-track cassette back in 1985.
all that said, if i want to practice a riff or ideas over a chord progression, the easiest thing is to use a looper. if i want to record it to assess my playing, i use my cell phone or my zoom Q2n. if i want to work out a more complicated multi-track idea, i use the 24 track.
another idea for just jamming is playing against a simple drum machine loop.
lots of options.
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Post by helmi on Feb 7, 2023 3:31:59 GMT -7
I’m old enough to have done demos on the original 4 track portastudio on CASSETTE. And we thought we were in high cotton. Well, I still have that Tascam AND brand new unopened tapes to go along with it. It's somewhere in the
I think I see it. it’s in the back, next to the “whatchamacallit” and under the “ thingymabob”! |
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Feb 7, 2023 3:47:00 GMT -7
I've got one of those old Tascam 4 track Portastudios too. They're cool little units, you can do a lot with one. But personally I've never liked cassettes too much. There's something about reel to reels that rocks my world like no cassette can!
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Post by adam on Feb 7, 2023 6:09:59 GMT -7
I just want to practice too!
The looper idea is great. I have one, but never use it.
I don't think there's really a better solution than a computer. You just kind of have to bite the bullet and learn the software, but you also have to weed out all the extra crap you are looking at and just get to the point where you can do basic stuff. If you have a Mac, Logic Pro is more than worth the one time purchase price of $200. To that end, I wouldn't mess mess with the free garage band, or like for the video stuff, just bit the bullet and get Final Cut Pro and you'll be way better off than trying to make iMovie work.
Another option would be an iPad, and assuming it's one with a usb-c connector, you can get a class compliant interface like the cheaper UA volt interfaces which is also bus powered (takes power from the iPad), no drivers, just works. Something like Cubasis is an extremely able daw for around $60 there. Caveat is you'll need another adapter if you want to charge it while using the interface. Everything is a hassle in frustrating in some way.
For me, at least I know I can sit down at the computer, put the guitar on, fire up my practice template and just kind of get lost for hours. It's kind of meditative in a way. I kind of use it like a metronome that's way more fun. For instance, there's different tempos in the song with different drum grooves and different drone synth pads. Like the pad might be just the notes A and E and I can play any of the modes over that, so not stuck to major or minor. Then I have a delay on synced to the time. Then I generally start really slow and practice scales, which of course is boring as hell, but it's not when you have something musical going on with the delay always in time. It makes practicing fun because I don't have to do anything to get going. Bottom line, you have to think though what you need and make a template so you aren't going "add track, assign input, assign output, yada yada".
Another thing fun with logic is they have the normal timeline recording, but also a "play clip" mode where you can record into the clip (button on a grid). You could be looping over a 4 bar drum pattern in the timeline, hit record on your guitar in the clip mode thing, and that clip just records until you say stop. Assuming you get something you like, just have another track and doing something over it. I really can't think of a more efficient way to work or create something, but you just have to get over that basic hump in the beginning. There's also about 10 million videos out there to help you figure out stuff.
Another note on the apple stuff, if you have a Mac and an iPad, you can use the logic remote on the iPad to control the computer, and now you are recording into a clip by hitting a button on the iPad (like pushing a button on a hardware device) and you aren't grabbing the mouse, locating the mouse, moving to the areas, click something, etc.
Good luck!
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Post by steamroller on Feb 7, 2023 11:20:39 GMT -7
the bad poodle experience / adam,
So there it is. The two directions, two distinct choices! Door #1.looper and recorder or door#2. computer and software. I know that for someone else, two different routes might have emerged. But for me, these two choices have stuck. I said that I would reveal my choice, but not yet.
The simplicity of the looper and recording microphone is really appealing. The "horse power" of the computer and software also appealing.
Back in the day I used to run Quark XPress, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. So I know that I can learn how to run recording software- to the extent that I would need to anyway. But I kind of left the computer behind me, when I "left the job" (8 years). I associate software with work. It messes with the muse! On the other hand, i also am aware that once the learning curve is satisfied, the software can provide a lot of creativity.
1. Efficient, simple critical functionality vs.
2. Creativity and explorationn.
I want to thank everyone for your advise. You saved me so much time, at a cost of your own time. So my choice is now between one of two. #1. looper / Zoom recorder or #2. computer / software.
Decision coming today!
-steamroller-
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Post by adam on Feb 7, 2023 11:44:25 GMT -7
Back in the day I used to run Quark XPress, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. So I know that I can learn how to run recording software- to the extent that I would need to anyway. But I kind of left the computer behind me, when I "left the job" (8 years). I associate software with work. It messes with the muse! The daw software reminds me a lot of photoshop (haven't used in a long time) where there's a million menu items and options, but you kind of do the same 8 things all the time and you just need to find those ones and ignore the rest. It's just daunting and frustrating in the beginning. I have my normal basement studio setup with a big console for the reason you mentioned. I've been sitting behind a computer programming for work for seemingly forever and the last thing I want to do is stare at a computer for music. So knobs is fun, but, that has a whole another set of problems and a million wires and anything can not be working and I can see it on my electricity bill. Just pros and cons to everything. |
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Feb 7, 2023 11:50:00 GMT -7
the bad poodle experience / adam, So there it is. The two directions, two distinct choices! Door #1.looper and recorder or door#2. computer and software. I know that for someone else, two different routes might have emerged. But for me, these two choices have stuck. I said that I would reveal my choice, but not yet. The simplicity of the looper and recording microphone is really appealing. The "horse power" of the computer and software also appealing. Back in the day I used to run Quark XPress, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. So I know that I can learn how to run recording software- to the extent that I would need to anyway. But I kind of left the computer behind me, when I "left the job" (8 years). I associate software with work. It messes with the muse! On the other hand, i also am aware that once the learning curve is satisfied, the software can provide a lot of creativity. 1. Efficient, simple critical functionality vs. 2. Creativity and explorationn. I want to thank everyone for your advise. You saved me so much time, at a cost of your own time. So my choice is now between one of two. #1. looper / Zoom recorder or #2. computer / software. Decision coming today! -steamroller- good luck but i want to point out that option 1, while simpler, also fully supports creativity and exploration.
If you own a smart phone, start using it now to record your playing. i have always used an android based phone. i use usb thumb drives for archiving my phone videos in order to make room for new ones. sometimes i record 30 videos in a sitting and only keep one or two.
i'll also throw a monkey wrench into the works and point out that there are stand-alone loopers/sequencers that do not require a computer. i own an Akai MPC One and can create songs by building up sequences of virtual instruments and i can record my guitar or vocals directly into it.
i will say that the learning curve is fairly steep.
here's an example. i build the song backing track on the MPC one using sampled sounds and then added rhythm guitar parts. i played that back while i overdubbed lead guitar and ran a line out from my MPC to my Zoom camera. I then took the video and edited it on my phone. The only time i need a computer is for transferring the Zoom video file to my phone.
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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 7, 2023 13:16:47 GMT -7
Well, I still have that Tascam AND brand new unopened tapes to go along with it. It's somewhere in the
I think I see it. it’s in the back, next to the “whatchamacallit” and under the “ thingymabob”! Thanks for the tip. But that was the eight track player! |
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Post by helmi on Feb 7, 2023 14:05:47 GMT -7
I think I see it. it’s in the back, next to the “whatchamacallit” and under the “ thingymabob”! Thanks for the tip. But that was the eight track player! If you find any 78 rpm records back there, let me know. my old neighbor still plays them. |
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Post by adam on Feb 7, 2023 16:42:13 GMT -7
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Feb 7, 2023 16:46:01 GMT -7
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Post by helmi on Feb 7, 2023 17:08:22 GMT -7
the bad poodle experience / adam, So there it is. The two directions, two distinct choices! Door #1.looper and recorder or door#2. computer and software. I know that for someone else, two different routes might have emerged. But for me, these two choices have stuck. I said that I would reveal my choice, but not yet. The simplicity of the looper and recording microphone is really appealing. The "horse power" of the computer and software also appealing. Back in the day I used to run Quark XPress, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. So I know that I can learn how to run recording software- to the extent that I would need to anyway. But I kind of left the computer behind me, when I "left the job" (8 years). I associate software with work. It messes with the muse! On the other hand, i also am aware that once the learning curve is satisfied, the software can provide a lot of creativity. 1. Efficient, simple critical functionality vs. 2. Creativity and explorationn. I want to thank everyone for your advise. You saved me so much time, at a cost of your own time. So my choice is now between one of two. #1. looper / Zoom recorder or #2. computer / software. Decision coming today! -steamroller- good luck but i want to point out that option 1, while simpler, also fully supports creativity and exploration.
If you own a smart phone, start using it now to record your playing. i have always used an android based phone. i use usb thumb drives for archiving my phone videos in order to make room for new ones. sometimes i record 30 videos in a sitting and only keep one or two.
i'll also throw a monkey wrench into the works and point out that there are stand-alone loopers/sequencers that do not require a computer. i own an Akai MPC One and can create songs by building up sequences of virtual instruments and i can record my guitar or vocals directly into it.
i will say that the learning curve is fairly steep.
here's an example. i build the song backing track on the MPC one using sampled sounds and then added rhythm guitar parts. i played that back while i overdubbed lead guitar and ran a line out from my MPC to my Zoom camera. I then took the video and edited it on my phone. The only time i need a computer is for transferring the Zoom video file to my phone.
Was there any small paper or plastic tabs used as inspiration in the making of this piece of musical art? |
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Post by steamroller on Feb 7, 2023 18:42:48 GMT -7
the bad poodle experience 120,
That was great! I enjoyed that video a lot! Hope to play that well someday!
-steamroller-
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Post by steamroller on Feb 7, 2023 20:25:08 GMT -7
Thanks everyone.
You have given me solid pointers, all of which will help me to play guitar better, through better practice. I have decided to get a looper! At the last minute I found out the Zoom H2n, as good as it is, might not have great headphone capability. So, I'm waiting to verify if that is true-I intended to use headphones exclusively for awhile.
So, for me for now, it's going to be my tele, my Z-Plus, my variable boost footswitch, and a looper...of some make!
-steamroller-
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Feb 8, 2023 6:37:06 GMT -7
the bad poodle experience / adam, So there it is. The two directions, two distinct choices! Door #1.looper and recorder or door#2. computer and software. I know that for someone else, two different routes might have emerged. But for me, these two choices have stuck. I said that I would reveal my choice, but not yet. The simplicity of the looper and recording microphone is really appealing. The "horse power" of the computer and software also appealing. Back in the day I used to run Quark XPress, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. So I know that I can learn how to run recording software- to the extent that I would need to anyway. But I kind of left the computer behind me, when I "left the job" (8 years). I associate software with work. It messes with the muse! On the other hand, i also am aware that once the learning curve is satisfied, the software can provide a lot of creativity. 1. Efficient, simple critical functionality vs. 2. Creativity and explorationn. I want to thank everyone for your advise. You saved me so much time, at a cost of your own time. So my choice is now between one of two. #1. looper / Zoom recorder or #2. computer / software. Decision coming today! -steamroller- good luck but i want to point out that option 1, while simpler, also fully supports creativity and exploration.
If you own a smart phone, start using it now to record your playing. i have always used an android based phone. i use usb thumb drives for archiving my phone videos in order to make room for new ones. sometimes i record 30 videos in a sitting and only keep one or two.
i'll also throw a monkey wrench into the works and point out that there are stand-alone loopers/sequencers that do not require a computer. i own an Akai MPC One and can create songs by building up sequences of virtual instruments and i can record my guitar or vocals directly into it.
i will say that the learning curve is fairly steep.
here's an example. i build the song backing track on the MPC one using sampled sounds and then added rhythm guitar parts. i played that back while i overdubbed lead guitar and ran a line out from my MPC to my Zoom camera. I then took the video and edited it on my phone. The only time i need a computer is for transferring the Zoom video file to my phone.
Great job, Ian, I dig your style. Ya know, 50+ years ago they warned me about "flashbacks"...and I never experienced one. Until this morning.  |
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