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Post by vaughn4380 on Mar 30, 2015 4:34:00 GMT -7
So I own two Carmen Ghia 1x12 combos (one stays at the church and the other travels with me). Both have the Vintage 30 speaker with 4+ years of weekly use on them, both have been re-tubed in the last month with the same tubes (JJ for the 12AX7 and Power tubes, and a proper NOS JAN 5751 tube in the preamp, and NOS rectifier).
The problem: I use to use strats exclusively, loved the tone I got with the CG (both sounded great), never had an issue. Then I started to get into a Tele kick and bought two Fender 52 Vintage Reissue over the past year, one has the stock fender nocaster pickups in it and the other has Lindy Fralin Blues Specials in it. I cannot dial the ice-pick out of these amps when I use the teles. If I turn the amp’s tone knob clockwise enough to tame the ice-pick, it adds a ton of bass and “muffles” the entire sound of the amp. If I keep the tone were I use it with my strats and try to turn the tone knob on the guitars down I end up with a muffled Woman-like tone that has no definition (from a tele).
Both these guitars sound great through my AC30 and Super Reverb Reissue (both larger amps I am not wanting to haul around) so I am not thinking it is a guitar issue. The CG’s both sound great with my strats.
I have tried the old tubes that were in the amps and I have tried the 12AX7 and power tubes that came in my AC30 and both yielded the same results. So I am wondering what I can do to tame the ice-pickiness. Suggestions would be appreciated. I am currently considering swapping speakers in each to a Celestion Gold, I know Brad Paisley uses that speaker a lot and likes it. I mainly use the CG for clean tones, volume at 9 o’clock, and use pedals for everything else. Right now I am using a Keeley Katana Blues Drive and AC Booster for dirt, both pedals that sound good with everything I own.
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Post by Maddog on Mar 30, 2015 4:47:27 GMT -7
Your solution will be in swapping speakers or swapping pickups on the teles. There are multiple articles and threads on both topics here on this forum. ( and opinions a plenty) good luck, brother!
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Post by doctorice on Mar 30, 2015 5:52:48 GMT -7
Agree with Lee: speakers would be my first stop. Before you invest in something new, try plugging the CG into the speakers in one of your other amps.
A lot of guys here get great results with Tele into CG, so don't give up!
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Post by wubberdubber on Mar 30, 2015 6:14:41 GMT -7
Also agree with the speaker exchange...it makes a world of difference. For example, a WGS ET-65 would warm that amp up and still have great articulation. Teles do have more treble due to that metal plate under the pickup mounted to the metal bridge plate (compared to a Strat)...lowering the pickups a little may help tame that bite.
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Post by vaughn4380 on Mar 30, 2015 6:36:20 GMT -7
Thanks everyone, I am researching speakers feverishly right now. It looks like the Gold might have a bunch of treble too so I think I will avoid that one at this time. I have the WGS ET-65 pulled up in another tab, I am also seriosuly looking at the Celstion Creamback (G12m-65). Anyone have experience with these?
The teles sound great with my other two amps, so I am hesitant to change them. And the Lindy Fralins are great pickups, I can't imagine they are the issue (but you never know, they could be).
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Post by meanslide on Mar 30, 2015 7:07:31 GMT -7
A Tone Tubby Alnico would be a great choice too. I recently picked up a Z 1X12 with the Celestion Creamback and so far I like it. It has an Alnico feel to it and is a little quieter than the Tone Tub.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Mar 30, 2015 7:12:00 GMT -7
The Ghia is the most speaker-sensitive amp I've ever owned, I think...
ET-65 is a very warm, full-range British speaker.. excellent. (Your lows won't be as tight as with the Vintage 30, but it'll definitely tame that top end.) Celestion's Creamback (and also the Greenback) would also be much more restrained in those upper-mids compared to the V30, but will still retain that classic Celestion "bark" that even the V30 has.
Either of those that you'd mentioned would be worth trying. Also.. if you've got the scratch... a Scumback Scumnico or Weber Silver Bell are stellar in a Ghia.
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Post by Sean on Mar 30, 2015 8:18:15 GMT -7
Um...what about the tone knob on the guitar? I didn't see that mentioned. My tele usually has the tone down around 7 on the bridge pickup with my EL84 amps. Seems obvious but thought I would mention it as it is a bit easier and cheaper than chasing speakers...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 8:27:28 GMT -7
I understand your trouble.
I come at it from the opposite direction and this goes for almost all amps for me. If I have an amp set up for almost any guitar then I plug a Stratocaster in it will be way off base. I can dial up a good with the Stratocaster on most amps but if I want to switch to almost any other guitar (Humbuckers, P-90's, Tele, Dano pickups) I'll have to reset the amp. It's a game of inches no matter what.
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Post by vaughn4380 on Mar 30, 2015 8:28:26 GMT -7
Um...what about the tone knob on the guitar? I didn't see that mentioned. From my original post: But thanks for the input. I usually work my guitar's tone knobs constantly throughout a gig, For my Vox and SRRI I find the tele's tone knobs are usualy around 50%-80% at any given time. With the Ghias by the time the treble and upper mids is rolled off with the tele tone knob (around 0-10%), the sound is undefined and mid/bas heavy, i.e. muddy. I don't notice this with my strats and usually keep their tone knobs anywhere from 70%-100% with all of my amps. |
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Post by Maddog on Mar 30, 2015 10:16:25 GMT -7
OBTW, Eminence's Cannabis Rex is a great speaker for knocking the ice picks off too.
However, like Roscoe alluded to above, if you change these amps to suit yer teles, they might suck with your strat....maybe if the teles sound goods with a different speaker, you might just get an extension cab for that particular speaker....or have one Ghia for strats and one for teles...
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Post by Funk#49 on Mar 30, 2015 11:01:57 GMT -7
+1 for the Celestion greenback. It works great with my tele/Ghia combo.
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Post by digs57 on Mar 30, 2015 12:38:14 GMT -7
I had same issue w/tele...I had 1/10 combo though...it does seem that the speaker change would be easy.Ive been using wgs and I really dig them for price/performance...also it could be as simple as dialing pickup's back...nocasters in both of tele's got seriously dialed back...I did have the blue special's also in one tele,then texas specials,lastly the nocasters....Lindy fralins....keep them in...try dialing them down.
Keep at it brudda...if keeping the amp is your only option.Maybe time for amp change?...loving my maz 18's "fwiw"...still.
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Post by nmz on Mar 30, 2015 14:10:11 GMT -7
+1 on speaker swap!
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Post by Luke on Mar 30, 2015 15:38:37 GMT -7
Put your 5751 in V1 and your 12AX7 in V2. It definitely warmed up my GC. Also agree with the speaker swap.
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Post by jesslm02 on Mar 30, 2015 15:39:18 GMT -7
Definitely try different pickup heights. Dial down the treble side a little at a time. IME, speakers have the greatest affect on tone at the amp side. Tubes change it too, but speakers seem to be more noticeable.
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Post by rcrecelius on Mar 30, 2015 18:13:12 GMT -7
I know you're playing in church but if ya could turn that thing up a little more you'll be surprised at how that will fatten things up.
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Post by ddrzaz on Mar 30, 2015 18:38:25 GMT -7
Roll back the tone knob on the tele.
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Post by jesslm02 on Mar 30, 2015 18:41:39 GMT -7
Get a compressor with a blend knob if you are required to play at fairly low volumes. The Ghia, like all the Z lineup, really shines when it's pushed a little and starts to bring in some natural compression. If ya can't do that, a pedal can help a little.
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Post by jesslm02 on Mar 30, 2015 18:47:32 GMT -7
Which brings me to another point, the Celestion Golds like to be pushed as well. If not, they can be bright side. I recently swapped over to the WGS Blackhawk 50 watt in my Ghia combo. It's bright enough to cut through the mix but I definitely wouldn't say it's ice-picky. It seems like a broken-in blue/gold and sounds great with my Florance Voodoo Nocaster pups.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 19:38:11 GMT -7
I have Lollars in all of my Teles and usually run a fair amount of dirt pedal into a clean amp with them--I like 'em nasty. But yeah--how to take off that ice-picky edge on the bridge pickup, but still keep the twangy essence of the Tele? The speaker's a good place to start, also rolling back the guitar tone maybe a quarter to a third, dialing back the tone on your dirt pedal if you're using one, and finding the sweet spot on the Ghia--which for me was alwas around 10/2, regardless of the guitar. Even cables can make a difference--some seem to be significantly brighter than others, and adding cable length can bleed off some unwanted treble, too. I'd be surprised if you couldn't find some decent tones just by messing with the EQ on your AC Booster--try rolling the treble most of the way off and see what happens. A lot of Tele players fatten their tone with pedals--the Zen drive is a favorite, also the Paisley and probably a dozen others--anything that can add a little gain and roll off treble while retaining clarity. Probably you already know all this stuff, but I offer it for what it's worth.
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Post by ddrzaz on Mar 30, 2015 20:22:46 GMT -7
I didn't read all these replies to see if this was mentioned... possibly trying pure nickel strings could give you a mellower tone .
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Mar 30, 2015 21:28:19 GMT -7
I'm using 2 different G&L ASATs at church into my Ghia on a 1x12 cab with creamback. Sometimes I wish I had a little more treble ( chime). So the moral of the story is as mentioned and seconded; try swapping speakers. Tastes vary, but this is where I would start.
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Post by vaughn4380 on Mar 31, 2015 4:41:47 GMT -7
I only own combo amps, which means I have no speaker cables laying around. So last night I thought I would try to to run the ghia into the speakers from my SRRI, but found out the lead from the SRRI speakers is not long enough to reach the Ghia. Ooops.
So I went ahead and ordered a WGS ET-65 since the price is not bad. I just ordered one to try out, maybe I will keep the V30 in one of the ghias for my strats, and set the other one up for the teles. I am also wanting to try either a greenback or creamback. I also want to try swapping V1 and V2, but I won't be able to until after work.
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Post by digs57 on Mar 31, 2015 8:08:08 GMT -7
I just ordered one myself...82.00 tax/shipped....boom....curious what you findings will be.
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Post by meanslide on Mar 31, 2015 13:58:35 GMT -7
"...So last night I thought I would try to to run the ghia into the speakers from my SRRI, but found out the lead from the SRRI speakers is not long enough to reach the Ghia..." Probably a good thing. A Super Reverb is wired for 2 ohms. Not sure if it would be good to mismatch... |
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Post by wraparound (Steve) on Apr 1, 2015 9:23:13 GMT -7
If you want some sweet tones at lower volumes on that rig I would not use Celestion speakers at all. Have great respect for them and have owned plenty of them, but part of the reason why your typical Fender amp like a Deluxe Reverb sounded sweet at lower volumes was the speaker. Rather generic Jensen speakers sounded good low to mid volume
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Post by DRZ on Apr 1, 2015 12:14:35 GMT -7
Hate sure is a strong word, just sayin.
DR.Z |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 12:31:41 GMT -7
If you want some sweet tones at lower volumes on that rig I would not use Celestion speakers at all. Have great respect for them and have owned plenty of them, but part of the reason why your typical Fender amp like a Deluxe Reverb sounded sweet at lower volumes was the speaker. Rather generic Jensen speakers sounded good low to mid volume Wow--so not my experience. I could never get my DRRI to sound like anything but a cardboard box unless it was cranked--and then it was deafening. |
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Post by Eddie on Apr 1, 2015 13:54:49 GMT -7
Well... it sounds like you are a very experienced player, so if this sounds super basic, forgive me.
My personal take on dialing down "ice-pick" on a tele or any other guitar is to make small moves and play for a while before you make another adjustment.
I find that many times I don't give my ears enough time to adjust from one setting/guitar to another. A Tele is by nature a more treble-y guitar than a Strat, so maybe it's sounding just the way it was designed to sound. But when you go from your Strat or a hum bucker guitar right to a Tele and don't give yourself a while to get into that tele sound, then you end up, again, just my opinion, but you end up trying to dial all of your guitars/amps in to sound basically the same as one another. There is a point to be made that this defeats the purpose of having a few to pick from.
I understand there are extremes to be avoided, but if you cannot get a good amp like the Ghia, and a good guitar like your Teles, and a good pedal like an Xotic - all with tone controls - to sound "correct" then I wonder if you are not rushing to lower the tone controls on all three too quickly.
Best,
Eddie
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