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Post by severett on Sept 2, 2012 1:28:36 GMT -7
Thinking of buying a Carmen Ghia, but worried it won't have enough clean headroom , i play in a sixties cover band sometimes in large clubs. I like the EL 84 sound and used to have a blues junior which struggled in certain situations.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2012 5:54:41 GMT -7
It's hard to say in a forum. I don't know how loud you play or how loud your band plays. You can also make the guitar tone louder or quieter by choosing certain speakers over others.
If you play large clubs, you may have the option of guitar pumping through your monitor. (Don't know how sophisticated the PA is)
But I don't think you could go wrong with the Ghia. Incredible amp. Maz Jr too.
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Post by deaconblues on Sept 2, 2012 8:28:08 GMT -7
The Ghia is very responsive to pre-amp tube tweaks. Changes at V1/V2 can dramatically increase the headroom of this amp.
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Post by severett on Sept 3, 2012 0:50:02 GMT -7
Thanks for info, what pre amp tubes would you recommend increase headroom?
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Post by John on Sept 3, 2012 5:34:27 GMT -7
The Ghia should come with a 5751 for the PI. (or it should come standard) So it would be up to you if you want to stay with the regular 12ax7 in V1 or if you want to put another 5751 in there. But it would be my opinion that if you're considering altering the tubes for more headroom, perhaps you should consider a different amp. I think the Maz Jr has a little higher headroom. But that said, the Ghia can get very loud. Use a 100 db speaker with it....Celestion Blue, Gold, V30, G12H30...all are very loud speakers and do not be deceived at the amp's 18 watt rating. It can get loud.
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Post by severett on Sept 3, 2012 6:08:56 GMT -7
Thanks John, i am using a celestion gold, but i will consider the Maz 18 also
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Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on Sept 3, 2012 9:00:44 GMT -7
A 12BH7 in the PI slot helps a lot w/headroom on the Ghia.
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Post by deaconblues on Sept 4, 2012 7:17:36 GMT -7
T-Rock is spot on with the 12BH7 in V2. Almost gives the Ghia a jazz like clean with headroom to spare.
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Post by wubberdubber on Sept 4, 2012 15:44:19 GMT -7
I used to have a Ghia, and although it sounded great, it just didn't quite cut it with the band in a large club, even miked. The cranked-up tone was wonderful, but didn't do the cleans I needed...got a MAZ 18 and it was perfect.
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Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on Sept 6, 2012 15:05:30 GMT -7
W/a 12BH7 in V2, and high effinciency spkr, like a Red Fang/Weber AlNiCo Silver Bell(50 watter)/Gold/JBL D120/SRO/EV-12L....etc...........
The Ghia can hang w/"most" 50 watt tube amps, and ANY 100 watt SS amp on the planet.
As the TV guys say..."Ask me how I know."...............
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Post by eggman on Sept 9, 2012 9:21:26 GMT -7
Howdy,
To piggyback slightly off of T Rock, my Ghia 1x12 cab (with a CG head, of course) had more headroom and better clean tones with a 30 watt Weber AlNiCo silver bell than it's current Celestion blue. Obviously one will never able to turn a Ghia into a Twin, but as many have pointed out, the Ghia is responsive to tube and speaker changes. I love mine!
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Post by deaconblues on Sept 11, 2012 8:04:32 GMT -7
Late yesterday afternoon I received a Ghia combo via FedEx from another forum member. I bought it sans speaker. So, the first thing I did was load it with an Eminence GB128 I had on hand. I also swapped in a full set of TAD tubes changing the preamp tubes to a ECC83 at v1, a 12BH7 at v2. I used an RCA 5v4 for the rectifier position.
Then I hauled it to my regular Monday night gig as part of the house band in a local watering hole for "open mic night". I had all the clean headroom I needed to compete with keys, drums, bass and another guitar through a 4x10 Blues DeVille.
I've been using a hot rodded Pro Jr. in this same band for several months. I've been using the same set of tubes and speaker in that PJ that I installed in the Ghia combo. The PJ is in a 1x12 combo cabinet with the Fromel Supreme mods and an Allen/Heyboer TO20 OT. It has plenty of headroom and may actually be louder than the Ghia, but it lacks in the bottom end. That's where the big iron in the Ghia helps out.
I like the Ghia's bottom end response and I'm not complaining about the sparse difference in volume between the two amps. That difference may only be perceived and may be due to the PJ having more highs and less bass response than the Ghia. Bottom line, I love the Ghia but then I knew I would.
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Post by bloozeman on Dec 2, 2016 10:13:09 GMT -7
I just received my carmen ghia that I bought used last night. After playing it a little today I noticed its a lot hairier and grittier than my last ghia, so I looked up some info on headroom for the ghia and found this post. After reading that the ghia has a 5751 tube I went and checked mine and both my preamp tubes are from right to left, a ecc83s and to the left of it a 12 ax7. Im assuming this is why it is more hairy and grittier? is a ecc83s tube the same as an ax7? should I purchase a 12BH7 AND a 5751 to swap in to make them more cleaner? or should I keep the ax7 and put in the 5751 or the 12BH7? any suggestions and opinions would greatly help. Thanks
EDIT: I just found a brand new EH 12at7wc tube in my cabinet. will this work to help with headroom? Im assuming it will. Should I also still consider a 5751 if this EH tube will work? Also which slot is the PI slot from looking at the back of the amp? thanks
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Post by John on Dec 2, 2016 11:41:17 GMT -7
if I remember correctly
ecc83= 12ax7
It would be my belief that having a 12ax7 in the PI would mean more breakup...and earlier. 5751 is a better electrical match than a 12at7.
And also....IIRC....the at7 is not that tonefull of a tube. Best left for driving reverbs. Find a real 5751..and old one if possible. All the 'new' 5751's are just 12ax7's that didn't make the cut.
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Post by bloozeman on Dec 2, 2016 11:54:02 GMT -7
Thanks John I was hoping you would reply. I'll get a 5751. This ghia is breaking up real early. I read that the ecc is a European ax7 so this ghia has two ax7s installed actually. Where would the 5751 go in which slot? The farthest on the right or next to it?
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Dec 2, 2016 17:52:34 GMT -7
the PI is v2.... so, i think john is saying put the 5751 in v2, second from right (when oriented facing the back of the amp)
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Post by John on Dec 3, 2016 4:32:54 GMT -7
Yes, put the 5751 in v2. The tube closest to the input jack is v1. The tube closest to the el84 is v2.
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Post by meanslide on Dec 3, 2016 8:09:01 GMT -7
I went through the 'more headroom' tube changes with my Ghia awhile back. This is from a thread where the Doc chimed in and recommended - " 1) NOS 5751 in V1, Nashville pickers trick acts like a low sense input. 2) JJ EL-84's bolder tone and response will add headroom. 3) NOS 5V4 rectifier, will add more plate voltage to increase wattage, but will still feel right. DR.Z " He also recommended a "a Tung-Sol or JJ 12AX7 in V2" ztalk.proboards.com/thread/67304/looking-little-more-headroom |
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Post by bloozeman on Dec 3, 2016 11:08:41 GMT -7
So the question now is, grey pate or black plate? any major differences? and it seems that RCA, GE, Mullard are top choices of brands? which do you guys prefer? I prefer a little bit of a warmer tone vs a brighter tone, not dark but just a bit warmer, would there be a difference for that in the grey vs black plate?
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Post by meanslide on Dec 3, 2016 14:06:53 GMT -7
From the interwebs: This distinction mainly applies to classic American made tubes. The first 12AX7s produced were all black plates, and are considered very desirable tubes due to their fantastic and sweet sound. Manufacturers of black plate 12AX7s included: RCA, Sylvania, Tung-Sol, Raytheon and Ken-Rad. The Ken-Rad was one of the first 12AX7s, (black plate or otherwise), dating around 1949. USA black plate 12AX7s sound much different than USA gray plates, and can be compared to some premium European ECC83s. In general, black plates have a warmer, more complex, harmonic and fuller sound than US gray plates. They emphasize even order harmonics rather than the fundamental tone. They have a really nice and full clean sound in a guitar amp, and a complex, aggressive and saturated overdrive. Audiophiles also seem to love US black plate 12AX7s (and 5751s). There are differences in sound between the different brands of black plates: some have more high end, some are warmer, some are more aggressive, some are more cutting. However, you can't go wrong with any of the brands... all made fine tubes. Genuine RCA black plate 12AX7s can be identified by their dull color and a horseshoe or square getter. Sylvania black plates are much shinier and usually have a square getter. Raytheon black plates are also very shiny and will have a halo getter. Ken-Rad and Tung-Sol made some very fine and rare black plates as well. My advice would be to buy a bunch of different branded black plate 12AX7s to find your favorite 'taste.' They can be a nice change of pace from US Gray plate 12AX7s. Original article here - www.ebay.com/gds/The-Tubekings-Guide-to-NOS-and-Vintage-Audio-Tubes-/10000000017053944/g.htmlSide note: I went with an ANOS (Almost New Old Stock) RCA Blackplate, it was a littler cheaper than 'NOS' and sounds sweet. |
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Post by bloozeman on Dec 3, 2016 14:14:01 GMT -7
I just ordered from tctubes and bought a NOS 5751 RCA black plate and a Sylvania NOS 5v4 rectifer as recommend by Doc Z in his thread.
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Post by TelePrankster on Dec 5, 2016 4:32:52 GMT -7
I have a Ghia head with a 1x10 cab (Celestion Gold). Mine starts to breakup around 10 o'clock and it's LOUD at that volume. I use an attenuator at home for great crunchy tones and that's the reason why I bought this amp. For cleans I don't attenuate, set the volume around 7 o'clock and it's clean enough for me.
For cleans at higher volumes I use a Princeton.
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Post by tgftele on Feb 3, 2017 22:36:57 GMT -7
I'll tell you, I play shows regularly in loud places with a full band, and speakers will make all the difference. I run a 210 combo with Red Fang 10 Ceramics, and it cuts through everything with plenty of headroom. Outdoors it will still get miced, but indoors, there's not much I can't play and still have clean tones. Guitar volume knob backed off a tad still cleans up the amp when the volume is at 2:30 for me. G&L fat single coils probably help that a lot too.
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Post by ss "Shane" on Feb 4, 2017 9:34:01 GMT -7
Thinking of buying a Carmen Ghia, but worried it won't have enough clean headroom , i play in a sixties cover band sometimes in large clubs. I like the EL 84 sound and used to have a blues junior which struggled in certain situations. Before the wonderful world of Z my main amp was the Blues Junior and I've actually owned three of them. Great little amp! I can tell you that the Ghia will be much louder with more headroom than the BJ. Matter of fact, I've considered buying another BJ for living room jams with unplugged acoustic guitars around. I've also owned the Blues Deluxe (Fender 40 watt) and the Ghia is much closer to the headroom on that amp. Nevertheless, all Z amps, including the Ghia, are in a different league. Hope these comparisons help! |
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Post by freddieg on Feb 4, 2017 10:24:19 GMT -7
I'll tell you, I play shows regularly in loud places with a full band, and speakers will make all the difference. I run a 210 combo with Red Fang 10 Ceramics, and it cuts through everything with plenty of headroom. Outdoors it will still get miced, but indoors, there's not much I can't play and still have clean tones. Guitar volume knob backed off a tad still cleans up the amp when the volume is at 2:30 for me. G&L fat single coils probably help that a lot too. Two RF ceramics ? How are your eardrums holding up ? |
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Post by John on Feb 4, 2017 11:11:30 GMT -7
This is a 5 year old thread.....
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Post by 2Cents on Feb 6, 2017 5:38:33 GMT -7
Kinda stunned John. Your comments loom large in the Z-Family. What are you saying? Do reasonable questions actually have a shelf life?
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Post by John on Feb 6, 2017 7:11:50 GMT -7
Kinda stunned John. Your comments loom large in the Z-Family. What are you saying? Do reasonable questions actually have a shelf life? A person can think they're answering a current question....that they're helping someone out..now. Mentioning a thread is 5 years old is to tell people the person has probably fixed/answered the problem, or has moved on. There's nothing wrong with continuing to comment...in order to increase the database of Z knowledge. But the issue of currently helping people has probably passed. I wasn't trying to be a smartass, or say the topic is irrelevant. It would seem you took the context differently than I intended. |
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Post by ss "Shane" on Feb 6, 2017 13:30:51 GMT -7
Lol, yeah I thought I was replying to a current thread...didn't even pay attention to the date! It just popped up at the top as recent! I'll pay more attention...sorry guys!!
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Post by zpilot on Feb 7, 2017 3:52:32 GMT -7
I just dropped in to read this thread because I'm researching the Ghia. Thinking of picking one up you know. Anyway, all of this info is good, no matter how old it is. Thanks all.
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