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Post by billyguitar on Apr 7, 2006 5:39:10 GMT -7
Back in the 60s and 70s classic old guitars weren't considered valuable. They were just old guitars that guys had because they couldn't afford a new one. Gold tops were refinned regularly, Fenders spray painted, I've even seen old 6120s with holes sawed in the back so some ignoramus could work on the wiring. Anyone have some good stories of guitars they've screwed up or seen? Don't be shy if you did it yourself, so long as you know better now it's all good!
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 7, 2006 7:27:51 GMT -7
Oh, I have been such a bad boy... I think the worst one was the brand new Gibson 335 that I put a third pickup in. When I was done, I had two toggle switches, three pickup splitter switches, with three positions each so I could split, put out of phase, put in series/parallel every coil in that guitar. This was all back in the '70's before we could buy 4-wire humbuckers, so I had to tear apart all three HB's and add the center tap wires to them. To facilitate all this, I used a very sharp razor knife to cut out an oval shaped section of the back, then glued in a piece of 1/4" plywood so that I could screw that section back in place. That guitar also was the beneficiary of having a Bigsby Palm Pedal installed so I could play steel guitar licks. In the end, I was able to conclude that the ONLY sounds coming from that guitar that sounded "right" were the sounds of the original two pickups, in their original configuration - everything I had added sounded like poo. A monumental waste of time and effort. And one hell of a Frankenstein in the end. I sold it to the other guitarist in my band, and lost track of that one years ago, but when I see a walnut colored 335, I always double check to see if it has three pickups. If it does, I'm the guilty party...
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Post by raja on Apr 7, 2006 7:52:13 GMT -7
I knew this guy who had a 57 LP Goldtop. The paint was crazed like they do and he didn't like it so he strips it and paints it Brilliant Orange. Then a week later her strips it again and then puts an oil finish on it and leaves it natural. This happened around 1974.
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Post by propellr on Apr 7, 2006 9:47:24 GMT -7
So, I had this LP Classic (plain top honeyburst). Bought it in 1996 new from AMS. Lucked out. It was a real player. I sold it to a guy in town who was buying for his son, because I was still in debt for it and it was heavy as a box of rocks (my left shoulder thanked me). Sold it to them for $1100. The boy was 17 or 18 at the time. I saw the boy a year or 2 later (he worked at Barnes & Noble). He said he had the guitar with him, like he usually did (he kept it in his trunk). The case looked on the outside just like the inside of his late 80s Ford Thunderbird. He played metal (a la Cookie Monster, I imagine). That guitar looked like the mosh pit. Seriously, it looked like he had run it in a motocross race. It had stickers on it. He had installed EMGs. I saw it and nearly cried. I couldn't believe all the scratches and dings on this guitar. Get this, he said he would sell it back to me for $1200. I passed. Humpty Dumpty, man.
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Post by pickupcentral on Apr 7, 2006 10:24:45 GMT -7
I wonder what happened to all the guitars that had Kahler or Floyd or (other name) whammy bars installed. You hardly EVER see one, but I know there were a TON of them so altered. (I did a few myself back in the 80's.)
Where did they all go?
-Phil
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dave
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by dave on Apr 7, 2006 10:57:02 GMT -7
My first decent accoustic was a Gibson B25 that I still have and love. When I bought it in 1971 and it had crazed laquer finish and a few dings and I thought it was a good idea to have it 'refinished' in our local guitar shop run by at that time by Martin Quittenton (co-writing credit for You wear it well, played the lovely solo in it, and all the mandolin bits on the Maggie May album). Got shafted by Mr Stewart on royalties...as he was happy to tell you about at the time, all the time.
ANYWAY, his guitar tech was a complete pisshead and refinished my B25 with an orbital sander and 80 grit paper, and re-fitted the machine heads upside down. The sanding swirl marks are still present, and the screw holes have neverbeen filled, but I love the guitar.
Vanity. That's all it was. I was 18 and wanted a new looking guitar. I really regret not having the original beautiful amber lacquer now. What WAS I thinking of?
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Post by billyguitar on Apr 7, 2006 12:07:41 GMT -7
I'm dying laughing because all these ring so true! My first decent guitar was an SG Standard. I was only 15 so my Dad was driving me to work at Shakey's and I saw a sign on a lightpole. On the way back home my Dad looked at it and called me. It was $150. I thought that was fine and had him buy it for me sight unseen. I of course paid him back the next day. I worked a long time for $1.10 and hour to save that up! After a few years I had about played the finish off of the neck. I had also taken a hammer and chisel and chewed it out for a 3rd humbucking! Then i sent it back to Gibson for a white refin. later I had heard about this old guy that was really supposed to be a great tech. I took it to him. I was scared because he had super thick glasses but he was supposed to be great. He butchered it. Later I had Jay Black put a new fingerboard on it. he warned me but i said go ahead anyway, the Les Paul fingerbord he put on it was too wide because my SG was one of those skinny neck ones. Not his fault, he did good work. Later I had him rout and install an imitation kahler on it! Now it's only worth anything as parts. It's funny because on other guitars I just sold them instead of jacking them up.
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Post by seaking on Apr 7, 2006 13:16:15 GMT -7
In 1977 a bass player left his 69 Fender Precision at my buddy's (drummer) house. With his guitar in safe keeping, he took off out west for 18 months on a job. The drummer quickly set about teaching me how to play bass and i logged a lot a time jamming this thing. When we got word the owner was heading back home the drummer got scared because, apparently i had marked up the original Tobacco Sunburst pretty good. That's what he said anyway, but honestly i don't remember much from those days. I cringe about this now, but we had his bass totally stripped and repainted white by some local butcher. Within weeks of getting back it started turning yellow where your right arm would rest. But as it turns out, buddy was very excited to see his white P bass anyway.
That left me without a bass, so i went out straight away and bought a new, white 1978 P Bass just like Buddies. Mine however didn't turn yellow, but it seriously lacked the warmth that his bass had. Ten years later while living on the west coast, it was ripped off along with every single piece of gear i owned. But that's another story.
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Post by garyh on Apr 7, 2006 17:33:11 GMT -7
I've chopped up some of my guitars. Had a great ES 330 with the P-90 in the middle; put humbuckers at the neck and bridge and a tele switch on it...was still a great guitar and nore versatile but value plummeted.
I also had a great gold top I bought used in the early 70s. I always thought it was a Deluxe but it had P-90s, not the mini humbuckers. I painted that one black (sold it for $400 when I went back to school) and a 60s black strat I stripped and stained walnut.
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Post by raja on Apr 8, 2006 6:10:56 GMT -7
Hey Garyh, My first real electric guitar after my Sears Silvertone with an amp in the case was a Cherry Red ES 330 TCD with a single P-90. I loved that guitar but traded it in on my LP Deluxe.
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Post by fishman on Apr 8, 2006 9:59:06 GMT -7
I had a Gretsch Country Gentleman, the thick one.....my friend put it in a vise and cut off the sides and made it into a "Bo Diddly" guitar...cause he thought it was cool......sigh.....also had bought a 1959 ES335 sunburst w/ orig case for $25.00....did not know what i had, sold it for 200.00 and thought I was makin' out BIG time...HA!...mannnn these topics remind me of what an A@@ I was.....
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Post by garyh on Apr 8, 2006 10:15:48 GMT -7
Hey Raja! Love that avatar. Is that who I think it is?
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Post by bks on Apr 8, 2006 15:16:06 GMT -7
My story's kind of the reverse...my first "decent" electric was a mid-70s Strat that had been seriously abused...it came to me with a DiMarzio Super Distortion humbucker in the middle position ("routed" via the popular "hammer and chisel" technique), the original pickguard modified to accommodate the DiMarzio (I'm guessing with wiresnips), and the tremolo arm snapped off in the bridge, so it had been shimmed into a fixed position.
I did the best a kid could do "restoring" it in '80/'81, pulling the humbucker and getting an FS-1 that I stuck in the neck, moving the neck pickup to the middle position, where I mounted it upside down (for that "Jimi Tone"), and replacing the bridge entirely (none of the local shops was up to trying a repair) with a brass-blocked Mighty-Mite bridge (I couldn't touch that whammy bar without the G-string slipping and jumping almost exactly a whole step...one quick bend in the vicinity of the 12th fret and it would get back to pitch).
It was a pretty Strat, all-told, but I think it might be the reason I have Teles now...
BKS
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nick
Full Member
Posts: 136
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Post by nick on Apr 9, 2006 10:01:41 GMT -7
When I was living in Atlanta, I was working in a music store. One of the guys that came in there was one of those who thought he could make anything better. His ideas weren't very effective, though. He put black widow speakers in every amp he had, and made them sound like electronic garbage, and loud. He put toggle switches on his strat that he routed out for 3 EMG crapbuckers. He used WD-40 on the neck instead of fingerease. It makes a maple neck look like rosewood. The biggest thing I ever heard about him was that he had a late 50's goldtop, and wanted to make it fretless. He used a beltsander and completely destroyed the guitar. This was in the 1980's, so he knew what it was worth, but did it anyway. It was sad.
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Post by Teleman on May 3, 2006 4:24:47 GMT -7
I played in a band with a guy that had an original '62 strat. The first thing he did was replacd the SC's with three Gibson humbuckers. Then he put a Kahler on it. Next he refinished it with a genuine Krylon spray paint finish of Army green! I felt sorry for that poor guitar.
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Post by tjstrat on May 3, 2006 4:38:06 GMT -7
No biggie, but I bought a very nice late '80s Japanese made Fender tele that had a Duncan Quarter Pounder in the bridge. It was a tremendous sounding guitar, the only Tele that ever got along with me; possibly the best sounding guitar I'd ever owned until recently. Anyway, somewhere along the line I decided to put a full size Jeff Beck in the bridge position. Got a new bridge and got it all installed... And the magic was gone. Just gone. A great sounding guitar was now an okay sounding guitar...
On the near miss front: in 1980 I had a chance to buy a beautiful Veleno aluminum guitar that the Hounds' (local Chicago area rockers in the day) guitarist was selling on consignment for $300.00 at a store in Lansing Illinois. I was too far gone to alcohol and the recession and couldn't pull the trigger. Last time I saw one for sale it was for $8500.00... Gaaaaaaaaah!!!
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Post by billyguitar on May 3, 2006 4:48:00 GMT -7
I know a guy that can take a routed out old strat body, fill the routs, finish and relic it and you'd never know. So if you're offered one for a good price don't necessarily be afraid but it needs to be a real good price.
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Post by BW on May 3, 2006 5:06:21 GMT -7
A keyboard player bud of mine gave me a Mosrite Ventures model in sunburst w/ the original case that some genius left at his house in the 70's and never came back for it. The owner had 'improved' it by carving out a big ol' hole and adding a tele bridge pickup between the two existing pickups and routing a hole for a tele vol/tone/switch assembly on the lower bout of the body, and gouged another hole in the Mosrite pickguard for the tele output jack. Trying to be John Cippolina I suppose, with an early stereo effort. I traded it and a creme bassman head AND cab in real rough shape to a dealer I know for a blackface Deluxe that had been abused in much the same way. After a little makeover, its the best non-Z amp I have. The dealer put the neck on a non-Ventures Mosrite and away it went to the mysterious east to a guy that had a 'yen' for it. He put about 40 hours of hard labor into restoring the Bassman rig and it looked like a museum piece when he was done, not a speck of rust on one single screw. Just showroom gorgeous. Probably still has it. But I played a lotta gigs w/ that Deluxe before Doc made me see the light;^)
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Post by billyguitar on May 3, 2006 10:51:13 GMT -7
At that time the Ventures Mosrites were going for around $200. Check the prices lately? Lawdy, lawdy!
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Post by johngourlay on May 3, 2006 11:24:54 GMT -7
I'm a keen woodworker in my spare time (tool and guitar/amp gearhead). I can never understand how anyone can lay into a guitar with any tool let alone a timber-manglin' router without knowing what they are doin'. They do though. I heard of some cretin wiring a hi fi turntable cartridge leads to the main elec supply. What 230 V AC sounds like through celestion speakers we never found out..............
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Post by rodeoclown on May 3, 2006 18:51:17 GMT -7
Had an early 60s strat way back and decided one night with my buddy Jack Daniels to reshape the headstock - ruined that one. Had a 64 strat and split the headstock in half trying to force new tuners into too small holes. Saved every penny I had and bought a new SG in '69 but couldn't afford a new case. I had a gig that that and put it in an old case I had. I returned from the gig to discover that a large screw was sticking up where the neck rested in the case and had dug a nice big hole in my brand new guitar. If I thought about this I could probably come up with several more, but then I'd have to slit my wrists.
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Post by skydog958 on May 7, 2006 12:57:44 GMT -7
on tjstrat's comment about the Veleno...
I know a guy who had a similar story. He had a friend who worked for a bus company a while back (I wanna say mid, early '80s), and apparently some guy left an old Gretch While Falcon on a bus. What the company did (at least at that time) was that after a period of time they would auction unclaimed lost items to the workers. His friend (who didn't play guitar) offered him the Gretch for $50. Apparently the guy thought a Gretch was just a Country guitar, and he didn't like country at the time; even though he knew the deal was amazing, he turned it down, and thus the Falcon was sold to one of the workers. Now this wasn't too long ago, and Gretchs were still quite valuable then. But imagine the steal that would have been considering the prices now!
Thankfully I personally haven't ruined (or turned down) a valuable guitar.........yet. Chances are I will someday.
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Post by anacephalic on May 11, 2006 11:36:04 GMT -7
The 70's were a dangerous time for guitars.
While not a particularly valuable piece, i redid the pick guard on an early 60s hagstrom I (my first real guitar) to get rid of all the switches.
my brother took a p-90 out of a 3/4 scale es 145 (a little hollow body les paul looking thing) and replaced it with two humbuckers. I actually found that guitar again in 1990 at the Austin guitar show. man it was clean even after 15 more years....really dumb to have carved that one up.
had a late 60's les paul deluxe which of couse got routed out for full size buckers (paid $125 for it). Traded that one for a perfect 1963 firebird I reverse.
In the early 80's i was trying to sell the bird (for $400 which is what i got....why oh why did i sell that thing!!) to Tommy Shaw of Styx through a friend of mine. To Mr Shaws credit he didn't buy it because he wanted a 2 pickup and didn't want to bugger mine. Some folks knew better.
Then there's the amps that came apart (worst was an original twead champ...sob)....but that is another sad tale.
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Post by skydog958 on May 20, 2006 21:38:49 GMT -7
AAH Firebird I. I have a DVD of Cream's Farewell concert at Royal Albert Hall in '68, and when I saw Clapton whip out his Firebird I for White Room I was sold. I almost bought a '91 Gibson Custom Shop Firebird I until this '63 Firebird III with a factory Gibson-labeled Lyre vibrola came up on eBay. I snapped it up.
All the hardware and electronics are original (except for a tune-a-matic bridge piece), but I got a pretty good deal because there were finishing issues. The original owner stripped it and trying to paint it in translucent red, even spraying over the pots in the control cavity! The red is still there and also on the edges of the fretboard and the nut. Later, it got a headstock repair which was done like the vintage sunburst finish, so to match, the owner did his own clearcoat lacquer job on the body. There are drips, runs, and grain holes on the body. I am considering a refin down the road. It's no big deal to me, but the original owner is probably kicking himself for messing with the finish. A good condition '63 'bird is probably worth near $10 grand.
My guitar teacher owns a '56 Les Paul with a simlar story. It was a gold top that was later finished red to match the instruments of the other members in the band by the first owner, but then later painted black (not with lacquer, I believe). My guitar teacher picked it up, stripped the finish, and just refinned it in natural. Besides the finish and one knob, it's all original. I don't know if he plays it anymore. I would love to get it....
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Post by billyguitar on May 21, 2006 9:40:40 GMT -7
That's a good way to get into an old guitar if you don't mind spending the money on a project. Do some research on the web and you might find someone to refinish it and the relic it a bit. I've seen Fender refins that are so good that it would take a super expert to spot it. I've also seen poor refin relic jobs so you definitely need to research and get references if possible on the tech. I've never seen a Firebird refinished and reliced but I've seen some very good Les Paul jobs. Back in the late '60s and early '70s lots of old Goldtop Les Pauls were refinned when the rage for sunbursts took off. Sadly most of the goldtops had a pretty plain top so it was a bad deal all around. Techs have a hard time getting a refinned goldtop to look right.
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Post by skydog958 on May 21, 2006 11:42:39 GMT -7
Yeah. That's because if you don't fill the wood right and maksure the top is smoothe, the gold flakes will sit at a weird angle and you'll be able to see it easily under stage lighting, kinda looking like a dent. It might even look green at the wrong angle! (the original gold tops used a bronze powder, so they looked green at certain angles)
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Post by janinedoubly on May 24, 2006 14:05:13 GMT -7
Oh jeez, my mistake was finding a really cute little 3/4 size '65 Musicmaster, all original, sonic blue, with case at a pawn shop. Paid about $200.00 for it and promptly had a P-90 put in the brideg position, a "better" Fender top mount bridge and all kinds of extra switches. It was my attempt at a Ry Cooder "slide guitar". Too bad I didn't realize how different the short scale length made it sound and I could NEVER get my slide intonation right on that short scale length. Would have been a cute starter guitar for a vintage collection.
Other stories, seeing a local punk rock guy in the 80's who had a black '58 Strat who put a Floyd on it and Duncan stacked single coils, 'cause the old pickups "squealed". When I asked him if he still had the originals, he said, "'nah' who would want those pieces of s*** anyway?"
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Post by bks on May 26, 2006 14:01:38 GMT -7
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Post by tele1962 on May 27, 2006 16:23:40 GMT -7
On the topic of beating up guitars, someone will have to explain how and why I should pay more or just as much for a guitar that's " reliced". I'm not going to pay extra to have anyone beat up my guitar! I can manage that on my own, and truth is the ones I've played don't have a more comfortable " lived in" feeling anyway. It's in someone's head! A lot of interesting reading here, guys! I think we've all done some butchering in our younger, more foolish, uninformed days. We vow we're smarter now....but then again, these relics really sell! All you guys that really butchered great guitars...take heart. If "relcing" is good, true butchery may be even better! There's a 15 year old kid somewehre near you who'll pay you dearly for your past misdemeanors if you market it properly!
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Post by billyguitar on May 27, 2006 18:07:52 GMT -7
Here's why I like a well done relic: I could actually buy a '53 Tele if I really wanted but Guitars aren't worth that much to me, no matter how 'cool' they are. An actual '53 would have a 7-1/2" radius neck and teeny frets and I can't deal with that. I really like the look of an old one but would like it to be functionally modern. So I would buy a copy but it would have to be a really good looking one. Some of the Fenders are so fake you can spot them from across the room.
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