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Post by ifreedom on Aug 6, 2022 14:47:49 GMT -7
Can't find a specific solution yet.
I play in a rock band and used to use a DSL40CR which had a volume boost. I play leads and I'm used to boosting volume, not just increasing gain. I love teh Maz 18 that I just got.
Anyway I can get a volume boost out of it? I play les paul fairly hot humbuckers for reference. By rock, I mean acdc, zztop. My tone is bliss, just want more volume when hitting the leads.
I've tried reducing the return on the fx with a Tim pedal and clikcin off for leads, but it's very slight, like maybe 1 db on my phone app.
I can push the front with more volume ala low gain higher volume tumnus but volume boost is minial, and then the saturation gets to be too much. Guitar volume works ok, but wondering if there are is a better way to handle this.
Thanks in advance!
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Post by doctorice on Aug 6, 2022 15:24:57 GMT -7
Sounds like you've got the amp set up so there's no headroom left. As a result, when you boost you're getting more compression / saturation because the amp has nowhere to go. How are your MAZ controls set and which input are you using? You mention a Tim in the loop. Other pedals? Into front of amp? In loop?
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Aug 7, 2022 4:55:21 GMT -7
You say you've got a Tim pedal in the loop and it can't reduce the volume very much?
I haven't tried it, but if you have a pedal in the loop and turn the volume to zero, that should completely silence the amp. It doesn't make sense that you can only get 1dB of volume reduction.
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Post by Stephen on Aug 7, 2022 10:03:49 GMT -7
Are you saying that you can’t get a volume boost by using the EQ Bypass?
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Aug 7, 2022 11:38:20 GMT -7
Are you saying that you can’t get a volume boost by using the EQ Bypass? Exactly my question.
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Post by telejas on Aug 7, 2022 12:11:16 GMT -7
I'm in the same boat, but I must have my volume (not master) set a little lower than you do??
I use a clean boost in front of the amp... Gives me a little more volume, gain and compression to jump out of the mix for a solo boost.
There's no reason a volume pedal or EQ pedal shouldn't work in the FX loop for that exact reason?? Either keep the pedal lower and disengage it for a "boost" or, add volume (and maybe a slight mid boost) and kick it on when you need a boost?
Last thing, the bypass control? Mine has a volume control on the pedal itself. I use this for a volume boost too... it does alter the tone, but works great as a boost.
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Post by ifreedom on Aug 7, 2022 14:06:42 GMT -7
Hey all, thanks for replies.
Yes, EQ gives a volume boost, and it's pretty good, just different for me. I have rehearsal tomorrow, so I'm going to try the EQ boost more, but it does seem to cut some zinging highs, or maybe it's boosting everything else and relatively it seems like highs are cut out a bit??
My settings (o'clock):
No attenuations: Vol 12, tre 1.30, mid 1.30, bass 12, cut 2, master 10.
Attenuator (still experimenting): Vol 10-12, tre 3, mid, 3, bass 11-1, cut 3 (or pinned), master 12+
TIM in loop: I can reduce volume, works ok, I guess. Seems less lively for rhythm when vol reduced enough to have a prominent volume boost for leads when I click TIM off. Boosting the signal into the return seems to just adds saturation.
Should the master be dim'd for max headroom, or is it the other way around?
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Post by adam on Aug 7, 2022 14:38:44 GMT -7
With the eq bypass, try setting it at full bypass and then dial in the cut control until the low/high balance feels right to you. Then dial in the eq controls to where they sound right to you based on where that cut control was placed. You mentioned the cut control being pretty high already, and that should have a lot of highs already based on my experience. If that isn't bright enough, I'm not sure where you could go other than brighter speakers or brighter guitar signal, but for me, that control can rip your head off if it's set pretty high.
You can also play around with setting the tone controls lower to introduce less overall gain to the signal when the eq bypass is not engaged.
I might also add the master on 10 and gain on 1/2 way, that's really loud (to me). If you need more volume, I think the only way to get there is with a higher power amp or more efficient speakers.
Just throwing out ideas to try. Good luck!
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Post by Stephen on Aug 7, 2022 15:02:51 GMT -7
I got Buddy Whittington’s Maz 18 settings many years ago and I use them religiously.
Volume 5:00 Treble 12:00 Mid 10:30 Bass 9:00 Master 12:00 Cut 9:00 Reverb 9:00
When I hit the EQ Bypass, the amp just sings. I hope this helps.
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Post by ifreedom on Aug 7, 2022 16:48:47 GMT -7
With the eq bypass, try setting it at full bypass and then dial in the cut control until the low/high balance feels right to you. Then dial in the eq controls to where they sound right to you based on where that cut control was placed. You mentioned the cut control being pretty high already, and that should have a lot of highs already based on my experience. If that isn't bright enough, I'm not sure where you could go other than brighter speakers or brighter guitar signal, but for me, that control can rip your head off if it's set pretty high. You can also play around with setting the tone controls lower to introduce less overall gain to the signal when the eq bypass is not engaged. I might also add the master on 10 and gain on 1/2 way, that's really loud (to me). If you need more volume, I think the only way to get there is with a higher power amp or more efficient speakers. Just throwing out ideas to try. Good luck! What do you mean with the eq bypass try setting it on full bypass. Do you mean dime the knob on the bypass pedal adn then set cut control to how I like my leads? Then engage the eq and tone shape for rhythm?
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Post by ifreedom on Aug 7, 2022 16:50:27 GMT -7
I got Buddy Whittington’s Maz 18 settings many years ago and I use them religiously. Volume 5:00 Treble 12:00 Mid 10:30 Bass 9:00 Master 12:00 Cut 9:00 Reverb 9:00 When I hit the EQ Bypass, the amp just sings. I hope this helps. Vol at 5 oclock is dimed? I'll give it try but I've got to think that's going to be too much gain for my liking.
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Post by adam on Aug 8, 2022 4:49:22 GMT -7
What do you mean with the eq bypass try setting it on full bypass. Do you mean dime the knob on the bypass pedal adn then set cut control to how I like my leads? Then engage the eq and tone shape for rhythm? Yes, exactly. Maybe also play around with the idea of having the gain boost on and the eq controls set really low which then gives the potential for the most dynamic change (gain and volume) when going from non solo to solo. Maybe also play around with using the high or low input when setting the overall tone of the cut control, those inputs really sound quite different. Despite the simple control layout of the maz, there's really a ton of flexibility in what you can get out of the amp which can make it confusing. Like the cut control has a real effect on the highs as of course the treble control, but also just which input jack you use has considerable effect on the treble. My idea with setting the cut based on full eq bypass really then takes that cut control out of the equation and you are just dealing with the normal bass/mid/treble. Also note that you can get away with say the gain being set higher when and the tone controls letting less gain through by setting them low.
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Post by Don A on Aug 8, 2022 5:34:01 GMT -7
You'll get the most headroom with the master turned up. A passive pedal in the loop like a volume pedal or a Soldano Soundman Eliminator might help. Set your normal volume with the volume pedal set low and step on it when you want more volume. The Soundman Eliminator works by allowing you to preset a lower volume then bypass the pedal and get your full volume for leads (opposite of a boost). I built my own and it works really well. You should be able to do this with an equalizer pedal, a clean boost, or the Tim set clean. Here's a previous discussion about this topic. I recommended the Soundman Eliminator in this thread. Solo Volume Boost
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Post by Seńor Verde on Aug 8, 2022 8:52:07 GMT -7
I gigged the Maz Jr almost exclusively for several years. Now I set my volume about 10:30-11:00, so I don't get any amp distortion, but any clean boost pedal worked great for me going into the front of the amp using the high input.
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Post by telejas on Aug 8, 2022 19:22:46 GMT -7
There are also some attenuators that have dual, footswitchable, volume levels designed specifically to be used as a solo boost.
But, you're looking at over $1k for something like that.
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Post by tkjrmiller on Aug 9, 2022 15:45:51 GMT -7
This is an interesting chain and I appreciate the ideas etc.
I have struggled a little with getting enough lead boost out of my MAZ18NR, but the problem is self-inflicted.
I run the volume at 1-2 o'clock, and the master maxed out. So I am out of headroom. It runs dirty, and I roll the volume on my Tele back for clean tones. I love this setup for the Maz. I can get so many great tones, nothing can touch it in my view.
I use an EP Booster for leads, which I also love. It adds a little gain as it pushes the front end, but the tone stays pure and not oversaturated and fizzy. However, this maxes the headroom out pretty quick. Personally it's enough for me on stage, but our sound person is always asking for more boost.
I am sure if I moved up to the Maz38 the boost would take your head off!
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Post by ifreedom on Aug 16, 2022 13:28:13 GMT -7
You'll get the most headroom with the master turned up. A passive pedal in the loop like a volume pedal or a Soldano Soundman Eliminator might help. Set your normal volume with the volume pedal set low and step on it when you want more volume. The Soundman Eliminator works by allowing you to preset a lower volume then bypass the pedal and get your full volume for leads (opposite of a boost). I built my own and it works really well. You should be able to do this with an equalizer pedal, a clean boost, or the Tim set clean. Here's a previous discussion about this topic. I recommended the Soundman Eliminator in this thread. Solo Volume BoostI'm going to give this another shot. I gave up the last couple of rehearsals, but ran the master ~10 o'clock. Not sure why I thought that was the thing to do. I use a hx stomp, can do the same thing you're idea with the Soundman. Only problem is that the Maz clips my return inputs unless I have a pedal on like the Tim (i.e. buffered). It's a bit strange as my DSL never did that to the stomp. Maybe the send on the Maz isn't buffered or the hx stomp tries to outsmart with some auto impedance thing happening, or a bit of both.
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Post by ifreedom on Aug 16, 2022 13:30:06 GMT -7
This is an interesting chain and I appreciate the ideas etc. I have struggled a little with getting enough lead boost out of my MAZ18NR, but the problem is self-inflicted. I run the volume at 1-2 o'clock, and the master maxed out. So I am out of headroom. It runs dirty, and I roll the volume on my Tele back for clean tones. I love this setup for the Maz. I can get so many great tones, nothing can touch it in my view. I use an EP Booster for leads, which I also love. It adds a little gain as it pushes the front end, but the tone stays pure and not oversaturated and fizzy. However, this maxes the headroom out pretty quick. Personally it's enough for me on stage, but our sound person is always asking for more boost. I am sure if I moved up to the Maz38 the boost would take your head off! I know what you mean. It's really hard adjusting without a boost. I didn't realize how spoiled I was with the DSL40 combo. The Maz just sounds and feels so much better to me.
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Post by tkjrmiller on Aug 16, 2022 13:34:26 GMT -7
The Maz18NR is badass! That is all!
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Post by ifreedom on Aug 16, 2022 16:27:27 GMT -7
Thought I'd do a quick report back. I noticed the Tim is not transparent in the loop. It immediately cuts bass, but I can compensate somewhat with the amps bass knob. I tried a BB as well which has a bass knob and is very transparent with the gain off.
The master was at 1oclock and turning down the pedal volume (in the loop) reduces oompf and some sizzle/gain. At least that's what I'm perceiving. It seems like the master section personality is coloured based on preamp output volume. In a good way imo, so when I turn down the volume, it doesn't sound the same. It seems like the master section starts to add sizzle/gain or somehting, at about 10oclock which is where the amp just starts to open up and is minimum volume for rehearsals. Turning it up more adds more awesomeness, but once I pull the pedal volume down, the awesome fullness/goodness goes away quickly.
I'm going to mic it and match the levels in the daw to test this out. I feel like some fullness and sizzle is lost when I turn down the pedal volume. Enough to turn me off atm.
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Post by tkjrmiller on Aug 16, 2022 16:39:16 GMT -7
Interesting. I would try the drive pedal in front of the amp (that's how I like it). My experience is the Maz sounds best when it works hard : ) I would not want a pedal in the loop to attenuate the amp in any way.
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Post by ifreedom on Aug 16, 2022 20:14:14 GMT -7
Interesting. I would try the drive pedal in front of the amp (that's how I like it). My experience is the Maz sounds best when it works hard : ) I would not want a pedal in the loop to attenuate the amp in any way. That's what i've been doing at rehersals and it's moderate at best. I've used Tim, Tumnus and tubescreamer all with gain just cracked open and pushing the signal with volume boost. The mid emphasis def helps, and there is some boost in loudness but am used to more.
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Post by ifreedom on Aug 16, 2022 20:34:14 GMT -7
Alright, I recorded the following with sm57 close mic'd roughly at teh cone seam. BB in the loop. I got it set to a very transparent setting. I used a ditto looper for consistency. then volume matched in daw.
1 BB bypassed, Master 10.30, volume 2.30 - "Lead" 2 BB ON, (transparent), pedal volume reduced enough to get a good lead boost when bypassed, M & V same as 1. - "rhythm" 3 BB bypassed, Master reduced to 10 (same perceived volume in the room as 2), V same as 1. I find the master to be quite sensitive around 10 oclock. 4 BB ON, same amp and pedal settings as as 2, except cracked gain open on BB to make up for gain/sizzle loss found in 2.
In the end, 2 lacks body, sizzle, and gain compared to 1 and 3. 2 just sounds weak when compared to 3 or 1. 4 was my attempt to bring back some gain, and it sounds just ok, nowhere near as good as 3 or 1.
2 & 4 are just not the Maz 18 experience; full stop. I get the same results with the Tim adn with the hx stomp when I simply reduce volume. Hx stomp is transparent, where the Tim starts in a bass deficit, but once pedal volumes come down, it's game over.
There's this awesome interaction happening between the preamp and power amp that is the character of the Maz IMO, and is simply taken away when I run enough volume reduction in the loop for rhythm to have a good dB boost (2-3dB using my cell phone app and ear) for leads when bypassed.
Not sure what else I can do. Maybe the Tone King Ironman II mini pedal is the best option at this point. But geez, that's another $550! I should sell my Tim. Wonder if those REverb sellers are actually getting $800+.
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Post by nick0 on Aug 17, 2022 3:11:25 GMT -7
Just have to get another Maz and an ABY box. Kick the second amp on set louder when you play leads. Two Zs are better than one!
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Post by ifreedom on Aug 17, 2022 11:59:29 GMT -7
Just have to get another Maz and an ABY box. Kick the second amp on set louder when you play leads. Two Zs are better than one! lol. The deal I hate to make to buy this one was crazy as it is. Buying a second one anytime soon would forever put me in the dog house. BTW you have as many Dr Z amps in your signature as I do pedals Srsly though, I'm a less is more kind of player. Can't imagine hauling two amps around, although that would be awesome to play that way! I'm gonna cross fingers sound guy can boost my leads at the console. I'll test that out in a couple of weeks. Maybe I should buy him a beer before hand. Maybe a shot or two ;0) I guess bands used to turn down during leads or carry multiple amps back in the day when it was rock-ish music and two git players. I mean I should see how Allman bros did it. No amp switching back then. I can ride the git volume but that's more about cleaning and screaming vs louder per se.
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Post by nick0 on Aug 17, 2022 15:44:50 GMT -7
ifreedom it's a tough one. If the amp is cooking and limiting, you're not gonna be able to add much. Either take some away for rhythm which you don't like, or try to tone shape which you don't like. I've had some luck with compression pedals. Especially those with a blend control to bring in clean signal and a volume control to boost the signal. The compression makes it easier to play leads but if the amp doesn't have anywhere to go, still not gonna add much volume. But it may feel better to you. Might be worth a shot. I also like guitars with slightly out of balance pickups. Like a lower output in the neck for rhythm and a hotter in the bridge for leads. Gonna just have to experiment more with it. Good luck.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Aug 17, 2022 21:37:41 GMT -7
The Maz loves boosts. I run a preamp that is a Boss FA-1 clone at the end of my chain that lets me do a little eq prior to the amp, but mostly keeps my input level fairly consistent no matter the boost or overdrive I'm running. Sure I like over drive and distortion, but the Maz lets me us a clean boost and my guitar volume to get to a lot of places.
For max headroom run the volume down as low as possible. I had the 18 with with mkii and never thought I would let that amp go. I had the old, heavy 112 combo, so jumped at the Maz38 Studio when I had a great deal. I never thought I needed more headroom, but ended up keeping both amps in tact because I loved the 38 and the extra headroom which translates into even more magic. If you ever have the chance to play a 38 check it out. It might solve the issue you're having with keeping the over all amazing tone of the Maz.
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Post by ifreedom on Aug 18, 2022 15:10:56 GMT -7
One thing I noticed last night was the long cables I have for 4cm really do muddy up the sound. I noticed that when I was playing with the BB off as I'd given up on the whole boost idea, and couldn't figure out why tone sounded like sh*t. Pulled the cables out of the loop and beautiful tone again. Cables are like 20ft each and cheapies from Amazon, so not surprised, although, again DSL (my measuring stick I guess; great amp for $$, but not maz magic!) never had that issue. Anyway, I'm gonna check that Tim tonight as maybe the buffer, while pedal is on, seems like a bass cut, but actually was providing buffer to get the signal back to healthy state again. Idk, just a hunch atm. Still wasn't good when I reduced the loop volume, I recall it got thin and just lost the magic. In my room, hitting the eq pedal (dimed) plus the klon drive in the hx stomp gives a good volume and cut boost. I tried this at last rehearsal and don't recall it was enough. Maybe I'm overthinking this... runninwiththerevil (Matthew) (Matthew), I think you're right. The volume has to be super low, like 9oclock or less to keep power amp drive to a minimum or something like that. I'm sure someone that knows these circuits well would tune me in proper. Shows how little I know about different amps and their loops. 38 watt would be cool, but yeah, I like the lighter grab and go bit with the 18. plus it was barely in my price range on the used market. I also prefer the amplifier drive vs pedals and feel the maz needs that power section to light up, and I'm just breaking into sweet zone (Master at 10oclock-ish) with the 18 at rehearsal. Need to keep eyes pealed for that tone king mini foot attenuator. Christmas present at latest I hope :0)
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Post by DRZ on Aug 19, 2022 8:15:40 GMT -7
I'm sure someone that knows these circuits well would tune me in proper. Shows how little I know about different amps and their loops. I have been following your posts and honestly I have have trouble understanding the premise . Let me say Effects Loops are for "Frequency Modulated Effects" Amplitude Modulated Effects ( i.e. boost pedals ) belong in the amps input jack . By boosting the input to the EL 84's via a pedal in the loop all you are going to get is more gain, drive , and compression not a clean increase in volume. I would say if you need a volume boost for leads in your band and your using an 18 watt EL 84 based amp, I would say have your bandmates turn down. Z
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Post by adam on Aug 19, 2022 15:18:30 GMT -7
I was kind of thinking along the same lines. Like if you really wind up a maz18 combo, you are really quite a bit over drummer volume and everyone would probably be yelling at you (like they do me!).
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