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Post by ifreedom on Aug 30, 2022 9:45:32 GMT -7
I'm sure someone that knows these circuits well would tune me in proper. Shows how little I know about different amps and their loops. I have been following your posts and honestly I have have trouble understanding the premise . Let me say Effects Loops are for "Frequency Modulated Effects" Amplitude Modulated Effects ( i.e. boost pedals ) belong in the amps input jack . By boosting the input to the EL 84's via a pedal in the loop all you are going to get is more gain, drive , and compression not a clean increase in volume. I would say if you need a volume boost for leads in your band and your using an 18 watt EL 84 based amp, I would say have your bandmates turn down. Z Gosh, super helpful thanks. I'll make sure to ask them. I'll drop your name too, should go a long way.
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Post by doctorice on Aug 31, 2022 15:09:37 GMT -7
Maybe you've already done this, but here's a suggestion -- a long one, sorry.
Ditch every pedal except one pedal set to be a "clean" boost (gain/drive all the way down and, for now keep the volume on the low side too). Run guitar --> pedal --> MAZ Lo input. Set MAZ master to full on, Volume around 9 o'clock, i.e., low. Strum a few chords with the pedal off. Then turn the pedal on and strum while adjusting the pedal volume upward. I'm pretty sure that at some point you'll get a volume increase that doesn't also cause the amp to start compressing a lot. Keep turning up the pedal volume until the amp starts to compress/limit/overdrive. Make note of where that is on the pedal's volume. Now, turn the pedal volume back down to a point at which it does give you a volume lift but without the added hit to the amp's front end. Then try a similar exercise with the MAZ volume. (Both with pedal engaged and not engaged.)
No guarantee here, but I think this process will give you additional insight into dialing in the MAZ to get what you want. As they say, YMMV.
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Post by adam on Aug 31, 2022 16:07:21 GMT -7
I play in a rock band and used to use a DSL40CR which had a volume boost. I play leads and I'm used to boosting volume, not just increasing gain. I love teh Maz 18 that I just got. Anyway I can get a volume boost out of it? I play les paul fairly hot humbuckers for reference. By rock, I mean acdc, zztop. My tone is bliss, just want more volume when hitting the leads. I have one more thought for you. Maybe you really gravitate to the large bottle tubes and are used to the oomph those amps have. I think it's pretty safe to say those el34's in the marshall can put out close to twice the power of the el84 type in the Maz18. So, no harm or foul, but maybe a higher powered amp is more of a happy place for you. I think there's a give and take with everything. If you really like your maz18 sounds but need more power, maybe sell it and look for a maz38. I have both, and they kind of have the same DNA, but they sound and react quite differently too. The 18 for me will do the most wonderful cranked up marshall type sound I've ever heard with the amp really at the limit, and the 38 doesn't do that same thing when it's at it's limit. However, the 38 has a just glorious cleanish and dynamic thing that the 18 just doesn't do, and that's taking volume completely out of the equation. So I have both, and they both do what they do best in spades (to me), but that doesn't mean either one of those spades is right for what you are looking for. Just something to ponder.
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Post by ifreedom on Oct 28, 2022 6:35:56 GMT -7
I play in a rock band and used to use a DSL40CR which had a volume boost. I play leads and I'm used to boosting volume, not just increasing gain. I love teh Maz 18 that I just got. Anyway I can get a volume boost out of it? I play les paul fairly hot humbuckers for reference. By rock, I mean acdc, zztop. My tone is bliss, just want more volume when hitting the leads. I have one more thought for you. Maybe you really gravitate to the large bottle tubes and are used to the oomph those amps have. I think it's pretty safe to say those el34's in the marshall can put out close to twice the power of the el84 type in the Maz18. So, no harm or foul, but maybe a higher powered amp is more of a happy place for you. I think there's a give and take with everything. If you really like your maz18 sounds but need more power, maybe sell it and look for a maz38. I have both, and they kind of have the same DNA, but they sound and react quite differently too. The 18 for me will do the most wonderful cranked up marshall type sound I've ever heard with the amp really at the limit, and the 38 doesn't do that same thing when it's at it's limit. However, the 38 has a just glorious cleanish and dynamic thing that the 18 just doesn't do, and that's taking volume completely out of the equation. So I have both, and they both do what they do best in spades (to me), but that doesn't mean either one of those spades is right for what you are looking for. Just something to ponder. Hey, I know it's a late reply, I know what you mean; thanks for the suggestion.. I've actually been managing all right. I think I was so used to boosting with the DSL, that rehersal's didn't feel right. But I've done a handful of shows now with the Maz18 and solos cut through no problem live. Sound guys/gals are hit and miss, but my leads come out great. Even the wrong notes cut through loud and proud - ha! I'm curious how you get your Maz18 to have that Marshall sound. I've played Marshall for years, and I haven't really gotten there with the Maz. Guess I haven't tried that hard either, since I have a Marshall for that. Just curious really.
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Post by adam on Oct 28, 2022 16:33:07 GMT -7
Hey, I know it's a late reply, I know what you mean; thanks for the suggestion.. I've actually been managing all right. I think I was so used to boosting with the DSL, that rehersal's didn't feel right. But I've done a handful of shows now with the Maz18 and solos cut through no problem live. Sound guys/gals are hit and miss, but my leads come out great. Even the wrong notes cut through loud and proud - ha! I'm curious how you get your Maz18 to have that Marshall sound. I've played Marshall for years, and I haven't really gotten there with the Maz. Guess I haven't tried that hard either, since I have a Marshall for that. Just curious really. Glad the MAZ is working out for you. On one hand think maybe the best approach to that solo volume thing is just crank up the amp and generally play with the volume on the guitar down, then let it rip for the solos. It served people like Lynard Skynard well for years, is simple, and just works. The 18 and those Marshal(ish)l tones - I think part of that is running the preamp high and the master high, but the cab has a ton to do with it as well. Like if you run it into a 4x12, or even a cab sim of a 4x12, it just starts to take on that timbre. I've said this before, but if you put the gain on 10, the master somewhere around 2pm, put the eq bypass on full bypass, and then dial in the cut control so that it sounds right, it's a blistering lead tone. Then turn off the eq bypass and slowly bring up bass middle and treble, as low as you can keep them, so that sounds good, you then have a great crunch tone, and it's a lot less gain than with the eq controls set higher, so there is more variation there. Then you roll back the guitar volume for the clean tone which doesn't really lose any volume because of the way you are hitting the power amp... it's just perfect for everything you need with no pedals except the eq bypass. But the cab has a ton to do with how it all works.
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Post by oldandintheway on Aug 7, 2023 8:45:22 GMT -7
I got Buddy Whittington’s Maz 18 settings many years ago and I use them religiously. Volume 5:00 Treble 12:00 Mid 10:30 Bass 9:00 Master 12:00 Cut 9:00 Reverb 9:00 When I hit the EQ Bypass, the amp just sings. I hope this helps. "Vol at 5 oclock is dimed? I'll give it try but I've got to think that's going to be too much gain for my liking." I have my volume dimed also . . . but I plug into the lower gain input and have an on/off pedal in the high gain input. The way the circuit works, when the switch is on it is exactly as though your guitar was plugged into the high input. It feels a bit like a channel switching amp this way. Between that switch and my guitar's volume I have amazing control over the gain contour of the amp.
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Post by petertaylor28 on Sept 27, 2023 11:09:34 GMT -7
Appreciate this thread has been around a while but thought I'd offer my experience with this. Like a number of you, I've struggled to get the clean volume boost that I tend to rely on in a two guitar band. Even with the volume at 9 o'clock or lower and master high, there is still some inherent break-up that, if you boost, tends to distort more rather than lift volume.
Mike (Dr Z's) earlier post resonates with me - if you're using a 2xEL84 platform and looking to cut through the mix, it might be time for the others in the band to play quieter. Sage words but, unfortunately, the rest of my band tends not to play that dynamically!
So I stumbled upon something that works for me - I set my boost pedal (Zvex Double Rock) lower than unity volume. The Z-Vex sparkle in the top end retains a lot of the characteristics of the amp and then for a solo I just kick off the boost. Works beautifully.
Whilst I appreciate the 'underdrive' concept is not a new one (there is a good 'That Pedal Show' episode on this...it is the first time it has worked well for me. The Zvex in particular seems to work and loves pedals stacked into it so it plays well with the rest of the pedalboard.
To add, a similar concept, but i am very interested to explore the gigrig underliner which seems designed for exactly this scenario (https://shop.thegigrig.com/products/underliner) - expensive, but would seem to address a lot of the issues.
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Post by scottyc13 on Sept 27, 2023 13:34:14 GMT -7
Appreciate this thread has been around a while but thought I'd offer my experience with this. Like a number of you, I've struggled to get the clean volume boost that I tend to rely on in a two guitar band. Even with the volume at 9 o'clock or lower and master high, there is still some inherent break-up that, if you boost, tends to distort more rather than lift volume. Mike (Dr Z's) earlier post resonates with me - if you're using a 2xEL84 platform and looking to cut through the mix, it might be time for the others in the band to play quieter. Sage words but, unfortunately, the rest of my band tends not to play that dynamically! So I stumbled upon something that works for me - I set my boost pedal (Zvex Double Rock) lower than unity volume. The Z-Vex sparkle in the top end retains a lot of the characteristics of the amp and then for a solo I just kick off the boost. Works beautifully. Whilst I appreciate the 'underdrive' concept is not a new one (there is a good 'That Pedal Show' episode on this...it is the first time it has worked well for me. The Zvex in particular seems to work and loves pedals stacked into it so it plays well with the rest of the pedalboard. To add, a similar concept, but i am very interested to explore the gigrig underliner which seems designed for exactly this scenario (https://shop.thegigrig.com/products/underliner) - expensive, but would seem to address a lot of the issues. Did you try the ZVex in the effects loop? It may work similar to the underliner. The ZVex SHO is a very clean boost and may work as well. The Dr Z EQ bypass switch will boost mids because that is what the design does. I like it for adding a bit of thickness to my tone.
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Post by petertaylor28 on Sept 28, 2023 0:16:25 GMT -7
Appreciate this thread has been around a while but thought I'd offer my experience with this. Like a number of you, I've struggled to get the clean volume boost that I tend to rely on in a two guitar band. Even with the volume at 9 o'clock or lower and master high, there is still some inherent break-up that, if you boost, tends to distort more rather than lift volume. Mike (Dr Z's) earlier post resonates with me - if you're using a 2xEL84 platform and looking to cut through the mix, it might be time for the others in the band to play quieter. Sage words but, unfortunately, the rest of my band tends not to play that dynamically! So I stumbled upon something that works for me - I set my boost pedal (Zvex Double Rock) lower than unity volume. The Z-Vex sparkle in the top end retains a lot of the characteristics of the amp and then for a solo I just kick off the boost. Works beautifully. Whilst I appreciate the 'underdrive' concept is not a new one (there is a good 'That Pedal Show' episode on this...it is the first time it has worked well for me. The Zvex in particular seems to work and loves pedals stacked into it so it plays well with the rest of the pedalboard. To add, a similar concept, but i am very interested to explore the gigrig underliner which seems designed for exactly this scenario (https://shop.thegigrig.com/products/underliner) - expensive, but would seem to address a lot of the issues. Did you try the ZVex in the effects loop? It may work similar to the underliner. The ZVex SHO is a very clean boost and may work as well. The Dr Z EQ bypass switch will boost mids because that is what the design does. I like it for adding a bit of thickness to my tone. Same principle applies although i am minded of the comments from Mike in this thread about the correct use of the effects loop. Plus, i run everything into the front end of the amp and i'm lazy , not sure i can be bothered using a four cable option when the Zvex 'underdrive' thing works through the front. I didn't find the EQ bypass very useful for my application - no volume boost and i didn't care for the change in tone versus just using my preferred overdrive pedals.
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Post by scottyc13 on Sept 28, 2023 4:05:11 GMT -7
I find I can get volume boost in front too. I have several boosts, J Rocket Lenny, Wampler Tumnus, Analogman Bad Bob, that all do a nice job for that. I’ve been testing other things in my Z-Plus loop like delay and a plate reverb (Catalinbread Talisman) just to see how they sound but have not tested any boosts there.
I do like the EQ bypass though. At lower settings it pushes the amp and adds a thickness to the amp. I use that and my guitars volume knob to dial things in. I can play La Grange by ZZ Top effectively just using the EQ bypass and volume knob.
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Post by frankie on Sept 28, 2023 8:40:56 GMT -7
Appreciate this thread has been around a while but thought I'd offer my experience with this. Like a number of you, I've struggled to get the clean volume boost that I tend to rely on in a two guitar band. Even with the volume at 9 o'clock or lower and master high, there is still some inherent break-up that, if you boost, tends to distort more rather than lift volume. Mike (Dr Z's) earlier post resonates with me - if you're using a 2xEL84 platform and looking to cut through the mix, it might be time for the others in the band to play quieter. Sage words but, unfortunately, the rest of my band tends not to play that dynamically! So I stumbled upon something that works for me - I set my boost pedal (Zvex Double Rock) lower than unity volume. The Z-Vex sparkle in the top end retains a lot of the characteristics of the amp and then for a solo I just kick off the boost. Works beautifully. Whilst I appreciate the 'underdrive' concept is not a new one (there is a good 'That Pedal Show' episode on this...it is the first time it has worked well for me. The Zvex in particular seems to work and loves pedals stacked into it so it plays well with the rest of the pedalboard. To add, a similar concept, but i am very interested to explore the gigrig underliner which seems designed for exactly this scenario (https://shop.thegigrig.com/products/underliner) - expensive, but would seem to address a lot of the issues. Z-Drive used as an underdrive in this video: You get the added benefit of utilizing the EQ in the Z - Drive to add back any frequencies you may lose form the underdriving the amp.
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Post by petertaylor28 on Sept 28, 2023 23:54:58 GMT -7
Appreciate this thread has been around a while but thought I'd offer my experience with this. Like a number of you, I've struggled to get the clean volume boost that I tend to rely on in a two guitar band. Even with the volume at 9 o'clock or lower and master high, there is still some inherent break-up that, if you boost, tends to distort more rather than lift volume. Mike (Dr Z's) earlier post resonates with me - if you're using a 2xEL84 platform and looking to cut through the mix, it might be time for the others in the band to play quieter. Sage words but, unfortunately, the rest of my band tends not to play that dynamically! So I stumbled upon something that works for me - I set my boost pedal (Zvex Double Rock) lower than unity volume. The Z-Vex sparkle in the top end retains a lot of the characteristics of the amp and then for a solo I just kick off the boost. Works beautifully. Whilst I appreciate the 'underdrive' concept is not a new one (there is a good 'That Pedal Show' episode on this...it is the first time it has worked well for me. The Zvex in particular seems to work and loves pedals stacked into it so it plays well with the rest of the pedalboard. To add, a similar concept, but i am very interested to explore the gigrig underliner which seems designed for exactly this scenario (https://shop.thegigrig.com/products/underliner) - expensive, but would seem to address a lot of the issues. Z-Drive used as an underdrive in this video: You get the added benefit of utilizing the EQ in the Z - Drive to add back any frequencies you may lose form the underdriving the amp. I’d not seen that one but nice to know it’s a legitimate technique!! 😂 The added EQ certainly would bring some benefit. My ZVex retains a lot of sparkle where others sound a bit dull but, damn, the z-drive looks like a useful unit!!
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Zed
Full Member
Posts: 183
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Post by Zed on Sept 29, 2023 4:40:26 GMT -7
Honestly, I use a Greer light speed for a touch of sparkle and other than that, I don’t even like gain pedals with my maz. I have so much gain from the amp already. If I need a boost, I’ll either switch pickups or turn up my volume on my guitar. I personally am getting away from gain pedals. Another great option is a GE-7 eq set for a slight mid bump. You can turn it on for solos and off for everything else. What we often overlook is how the band sounds as a whole. Boosting gain as a way to jump out front of every one else often sounds bad while boosting midrange (or cutting bass as perceived midrange boost) is better sonically.
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