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Post by Stylemaster on Sept 7, 2007 12:58:24 GMT -7
...without a pedal or attenuator. In other words with just the amp and your guitar? I just bought my 1st Maz Sr Head w/verb from another forum mate and was underwhelmed when I played it until the family was out of the house and I got to crank it today. Wow, it sounds amazing! But now I wonder how to get some of that goodness without cranking it. And, no, I don't wish I had gotten a Maz Jr because I wanted the power, the bass umph and the complexity of tone the Maz Sr is known for.
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Post by guitarstan on Sept 7, 2007 18:39:26 GMT -7
Awesome amp, congratulations! It was my first Z amp as well. Better go ahead and budget for an AirBrake if you want Bedroom volume .
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Post by big ( Al Z. ) on Sept 7, 2007 19:26:55 GMT -7
I'll second that use of an Airbrake. As a matter of fact, you'll probably need to use it outside the bedroom too to get those tubes to open up. I had an outdoor gig last week and used it.
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Post by Stylemaster on Sept 8, 2007 10:19:16 GMT -7
So I guess you guys are saying (and I've read it before) that it can't be done without an Air Brake. I was hoping to find a solution without spending more money.
What if I plug my Strat into the Low Input and turn up the amp? Will that make the Tubes work harder or does it have the opposite effect?
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Post by jwr on Sept 8, 2007 11:06:14 GMT -7
What kind of a sound are you trying to get? Maybe a couple of tube swaps could help depending on what kind of tone your trying to achieve with the amp.
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Post by Stylemaster on Sept 8, 2007 11:51:22 GMT -7
What kind of a sound are you trying to get? Maybe a couple of tube swaps could help depending on what kind of tone your trying to achieve with the amp. A saturated tube sound. On the edge of tube break-up. I have pedals but I want to hear what makes this head sound so special on its own without always having to crank it. I didn't really expect to get what I wanted from cranking the volume and lowering the master but I tried it anyway. That was just noisy. As far as tube changes, I am afraid to open this thing up and fiddle around with it. I opened up my PV Classic 30 to try different speakers and tubes too many times and I have sworn off of that kind of amp abuse. I just want this amp to stay the way the Dr. designed it and see what all the hoopla is about.
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Post by bobsyeruncle on Sept 8, 2007 14:00:36 GMT -7
The Maz 38 should used at a realistic volume. You can't expect to get a 'bedroom' volume out of any amp that has more than 2 watts output with output tube distortion. The airbrake will help, but may muffle the sound a little bit. All of Dr Z's amps were made for playing on a gig or full rehearsal volume.
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Post by paulgiz2 on Sept 8, 2007 18:30:28 GMT -7
It is not possible to get saturated tube sound out of a 40W amp at bedroom levels.
I was about to respond that my amp sounds great at eensy-weensy volume settings, but I like clean.
Dirty, you're SOL. You need a Champ and a baffle.
Funny thing, the reason I love this amp is because I can turn it up to where my pants are flapping without getting saturated. It is clear and articulate, even when it is in the distortion.
P.
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Post by detuned on Sept 8, 2007 18:48:52 GMT -7
Your amp will sound it's best while the tubes are cooking a little, the speakers are working, & the cab is flexing. Even an attenuator (while it will get you closer) can't simulate that.
My favorite "bedroom" amp is my Vox DA5. You'll never mistake the sound for as fine an amp as a Z, but it *is* designed to give you a variety of tones at bedroom levels.
Horses for courses, I say.
That is, until the Mini-Z head is released!
:-)
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Post by jwr on Sept 8, 2007 21:22:31 GMT -7
Well, I think the other guys summed it up. It's a tube amp and with that comes complications, like tubes and volume. The 2 go hand in hand, tube swapping has helped me with all my amps. But even with tube swaps, inefficient speakers and anything else that could be thought of the Sr is not a tube saturated bedroom amp. I don't think you could even achieve that with the Airbrake.
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Post by Stylemaster on Sept 8, 2007 22:15:55 GMT -7
Okay, I made a mistake. I meant basement volume. I play my Peavey Classic 30 at volume setting 3 (9:00) and it's loud but not loud enough to get complaints and it sounds amazing (with a G12H30 and retubed by Dougstubes.com). At the same volume, the Maz doesn't sound as good. One major caveat: I don't have the right cab & speaker for the Maz yet - I need a great open back cab (thinking JDesign Vintage 112) and, of course, my favorite speaker, the G12H30. I'd like to mention again that I play Fender SC guitars.
So forget the bedroom volume - think basement...(actually the Classic 30 sounds great at even lower volumes - really full and warm).
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Post by paulgiz2 on Sept 9, 2007 10:39:57 GMT -7
Well, there you go then. C30 is your basement amp, MAZ38 is your gigging amp.
Or you have to play with the 7 controls (seven!! that's a lot of freakin' knobs) until you get something you like. The MAZ38 tonestack can react in unexpected ways, twiddle away. Don't forget the importance of the interaction of the Cut control and the Master Volume--that's the key to everything.
Still never have gotten what I'd call a "saturated" sound out of mine and it's been seriously CRANKED almost every week.
P.
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Sept 9, 2007 13:19:21 GMT -7
The Z Brake is the best thing... You'll even end up using the z-brake live.
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Post by (8^D) on Sept 9, 2007 15:31:09 GMT -7
If you're after 'the goods' at basement levels, you will need an attenuator.
The SR sounds best with the Master at 12:00+ (generally 1-3:00, or maxed). 1-3 will get you a little grit, maxed with get you that natural power tube drive. Volume controls the pre-amp gain. It's the sizzle on the top - where the power tubes are the meat of the tone w/respect to drive.
To get that compressed natural tube drive sound, you'll need the Master up...and most likely an attenuator.
Weber makes a couple killer units. Mini Mass is stellar! Around 12:00 on the MM is 1/2 power attenuation and the amp still sounds natural. The attenuator has +3, +6 db treble boost to add back any of the sizzle lost by the attenuator so you can have the tone sound nearly exact while attenuated. Great unit!
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Post by Stylemaster on Sept 10, 2007 6:29:59 GMT -7
Weber makes a couple killer units. Mini Mass is stellar! Around 12:00 on the MM is 1/2 power attenuation and the amp still sound natural. The attenuator has +3, +6 db treble boost to add back any of the sizzle lost by the attenuator so you can have the tone sound nearly exact while attenated. Great unit! Dan, thanks for your advice. How does the Mini Mass compare to the Z Brake (besides less more than 1/3 the cost)?
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Post by (8^D) on Sept 10, 2007 9:18:47 GMT -7
Airbrake 2 large Resistors Attenuation
Mini-Mass 1 Speaker Driver (amp power section reacts to it like it would plugged into a speaker) Selectable Ohm (4,8,16) Normal/Attenuation switch +6,0,+3 db Treble boost Attenuation
Both are quite transparent
I've used both but own/prefer the Mini Mass - smaller size and ability to have some extreme attenuation if necessary and add back some of the lost sizzle (treble boost). Any attenuation beyond 1/2 power will result in a noticable change in tone.
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Post by Stylemaster on Sept 10, 2007 19:27:14 GMT -7
Dan,
Isn't the Mini Mass too small wattage-wise for a Maz 38? On the site Ted Weber says you need an attenuator that is 2x the rated wattage of the amp.
For what it's worth, I got some great basement tones today...then the Maz died. I just got it a little over a week ago. Bought it used from a reliable Z-forum buddy. It's only a half year old. The 3 amp fuse blew. I read the "Blown Fuse - Bad Rectifier" thread in "Ask The Experts," so maybe it's the Sovtek rectifier that's in there. In the meantime I can't get one of the fuse holder caps (grey plastic) to stay in there and am trying to find out where to find a replacement.
As usual, since you've been so forthcoming, do you have any feedback/suggestions about the fuse/rectifier/fuse holder issues I am unfortunately struggling with at such a tender Z-Newbie age?
Thanks, Andy
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Post by billyguitar on Sept 10, 2007 19:30:14 GMT -7
I guess I have different ears. I've played my Maz 38 at very low volumes in my dining room. If I turn the cut and treble very lower, boost the front with a compressor, volume dimed, master barely on, it sounds just like Fresh Cream to me. Well almost but close enough that I always have to play Politician, I'm So Glad, Toad and Crossroads. Different strokes.........
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Post by Stylemaster on Sept 10, 2007 19:35:24 GMT -7
I guess I have different ears. I've played my Maz 38 at very low volumes in my dining room. If I turn the cut and treble very lower, boost the front with a compressor, volume dimed, master barely on, it sounds just like Fresh Cream to me. Well almost but close enough that I always have to play Politician, I'm So Glad, Toad and Crossroads. Different strokes......... Yeah, but are you playing a psychedelic-ily painted SG like Clapton did back then? (I'm playing a Strat, that's not very, uh, psychedelic-cal ).
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Post by (8^D) on Sept 10, 2007 20:28:50 GMT -7
Nearly every fading/weak/failure issue I've had with my tube amps has been related to the Rectifier tube. I'd pick up a new one - easy to find at most music retailers - replace the fuse and fire it up. I'm guessing it'll be just fine after that...
And, I've had my Sr cranked blowing thru the Mini-Mass for extended periods of time w/o any issue. Ted's drivers are overbuilt like the rest of the speakers and can take a heavier pounding than the specs would indicate. I've even used the Mini-Mass on my 6545.
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Post by soundbee on Sept 13, 2007 10:56:13 GMT -7
If you're picking up a mini-mass, check out the copper-cap rectifiers too. They're inexpensive, sounds as good as tubes, and are way less likely to fail on you.
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Post by Stylemaster on Sept 14, 2007 7:48:21 GMT -7
If you're picking up a mini-mass, check out the copper-cap rectifiers too. They're inexpensive, sounds as good as tubes, and are way less likely to fail on you. I asked this in the "Ask the Experts" discussion but I'll ask it here again: How does the $22 Weber Copper Cap compare in terms of sound and performance to a $150 NOS Mullard GZ34/5AR4?
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Post by wetphoenix on Sept 27, 2007 19:54:25 GMT -7
hey yall,
Thought I'd chime in here cuz I'm looking for one myself. Dan seems to really like weber stuff, wondering what he thinks of the 100w mass lite? I was thinking that would be a good attenuator for the Sr. but what worries me is that reactive load motor coloring the tone at low volumes since it isnt identicle to the load the speakers are driving. It's the same as putting a different speaker in, as far as I understand, it could slightly change the tone of your overall sound. Maybe thats why Dan likes the minimass since he's a weber speaker fanatic and thats the speaker choices he's runnin'. Since they are from the same manufacturer, he possibly has very near the exact load as the Mass's driver does. Hmm, ya I don't have a clue what I'm talkin' about but it sounded alright.....
I'm about to dive into a Sr. and will definately grab a new attenuator and Headphone tap for my rig for the late night urges. I'll probably go through a few attenuators, just like speakers till I find what works best to my dogears.
2 cents, Chris
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Post by (8^D) on Sept 28, 2007 6:17:37 GMT -7
Hey Chris,
Yea, loves me some Weber speakers! ;D
Good catch - I originally had the 100 and felt it colored a bit at medium attenuation w/the smaller wattage amps (18-38) I was using. So, I went with the Mini-Mass and love it!! Use it on my 6545 (65 watts), Maz Sr (38 watts), Route66 (32 watts)...it's very stout and can handle heavier wattage loads ...and, that said, I generally run the Master volume around 1:00 on the amps or in that relative area so I just start getting the power section to compress/clip - I don't run any of the amps wide open (like some clean headroom and hit the amp w/a drive for grit) - makes the amp a bit more flexible for the stuff I do). Anyway, I found the Mini-Mass driver was a better match to the speakers in the amp - kept the same tone/feel. Great attenuator!! Plus, it's pretty small/compact and easy to carry around to the studio or a gig. Great tool to have handy...
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Sept 28, 2007 16:04:48 GMT -7
Dan,
Did you change your screen name and avatar to bare-buh-dare? All of a sudden, I see this crazy avatar, crazy screen name of someone I've never seen on this forum with z-natic status, 1200 posts and karma 33...
I'm saying, who the heck is this guys... Then I looked at your signature block.
I knew you said you like changing your hair styles, but don't you think that's a bit over the top? :-) pg
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Post by (8^D) on Sept 28, 2007 17:21:21 GMT -7
Dan, Did you change your screen name and avatar to bare-buh-dare? All of a sudden, I see this crazy avatar, crazy screen name of someone I've never seen on this forum with z-natic status, 1200 posts and karma 33... I'm saying, who the heck is this guys... Then I looked at your signature block. I knew you said you like changing your hair styles, but don't you think that's a bit over the top? :-) pg Yeah...was inspired by the "talk like a pirate day". Actually, there's a road story behind "bare-buh-dare"...it's starting to become part of the lingo around Nashville which is really funny...might have to post in the Lounge later.
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Post by wetphoenix on Sept 28, 2007 19:06:22 GMT -7
hey Dan! Nother question about the Minimass, heh, Mr. Weber should really throw an endorsement your way brother, that is if he hasn't already! I'm in a 4 piece semi-pro type thang, not real serious this year but preparing for '08/'09. We are throwin allot of hard drivin' tunes around from that little ole' band from Texas and a few others that are gonna just be Killer on the Sr NR all hot and bothered. I've got a Keeley BD-2 and Flexi and the boost but the full output distortion on this amp is like lookin at Scarlet Johansen, u know what I mean. Am I gonna melt that Minimass down to a stain? We play lots of small clubs but I know we are gonna do some festivals where I may or may not mic up so I aint going lower than the 38 or without a throw type cab like the z-best. Don't ask what my backup is gonna be... I like the idea behind Webers design of his attenuator and the word around and from you makes it sound like a steal. Tell me I can tame the Sr. with the Mini 50 watt in a little 100 max head club with the tubes at warp 10 Mr. Sulu!
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Post by (8^D) on Sept 28, 2007 20:02:16 GMT -7
Chris,
I have a friend in Nashville that ran his Maz SR dimed all day everyday and used the MiniMass for studio and live shows and it never even so much as blinked. They're solid.
Dan
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Post by wetphoenix on Sept 28, 2007 20:39:53 GMT -7
Sold. Chris p.s. thanks ;D p.s.s. sorry for the little hijack there
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Post by Stylemaster on Oct 1, 2007 10:34:37 GMT -7
Chris, I have a friend in Nashville that ran his Maz SR dimed all day everyday and used the MiniMass for studio and live shows and it never even so much as blinked. They're solid. Dan My hesitation in buying a MiniMass is that I don't want to run the amp dimed a lot. Isn't that bad for the amp (my MAZ Sr. head gets really hot from normal play)?
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