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Post by myles on Mar 23, 2011 19:56:12 GMT -7
Myles, sir, once again you've manage to make me quite a bit smarter. And I thank you for the time taken to share it all once again with all of us. I've been getting my NOS tubes from Brent Jessee @ www.audiotubes.com. I have heard very good things from all of the vendors you have also listed. I have been going back and forth in V1 in the Maz, between some of the 5751 RCA Blackplate that I have and the one Mazda 12AX7 that I also have. Great, great tube - very rare also I am told. Got it for something like $30 if I recall correctly. On topic though - I prefered the caracteristics of the 5751 in V1 and in the PI. I've tried one in both at the same time and the amp came a too tammed for what I had in mind. Knowing a proper speced 12AT7 would have the same gain as a 5751, it would not be the tube I'm looking for - you've just saved me the purchase of a NOS tube that I wouldn't have used elsewhere. Will be providing some feedback when I do get my hands on a new PI Tks again! Ben Ben, Looking forward to your feedback. The Mazda 12AX7s .... amazing. The Mazda and Raytheon are my two favorite 12AX7s. Mazdas are very rare.
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Post by Ben on Mar 24, 2011 4:26:34 GMT -7
Myles - This is the one that I have. I can't recall exactly, but I believe it had either a Red or Blue painted tip. It peeled off a while back though, but its not going anywhere anyways!
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Post by Scott on Mar 24, 2011 8:23:00 GMT -7
Ben, Speaking toward a good NOS PI tube for the Maz Jr, I have an observation... chetz wrote: I have a few Telefunkens, they are good tubes but maybe a little to precise for my tastes and guitar amps. That may sound kinda funny but they don't have the warmth of a Mullard and some others. I think they would be the best for you home stereo amp, apparently a lot of others do too... Especially the Euro's. Brimar's are a great tube... They are getting more and more expensive though. Tungsram... I have some but just haven't taken the time to fool with them. I like Mullards in V1 and V2, although V2 is not as critical as V1. In V3 Mullards work but a good balanced Brimar, RCA or Siemans works for me in the PI... Keeps things under control.chetz liked balanced NOS RCA PI tubes... When I changed my tubes... ztalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=maz18&action=display&thread=35909I also ended up liking a ANOS RCA 12AX7A for my PI. This is the best I have heard my Jr. sound, with my new winning team! V1 - NOS Mullard ECC83/12AX7A. (Relabeled) V2 - NOS Amperex Bugle Boy ECC83/12AX7A. V3 - ANOS RCA 12AX7A. (Balanced at 95)V4 & V5 - NOS RCA 7189. (Matched Pair) V6 - NOS GE 5AR4/GZ34. Trivia... BurstBucker Pro wrote: New rule for me - I like the gain of an actual 12AX7 in the PI position. Running a tube with too low of a gain here, can change how your Cut Control will need to be set, and the level of volume required to let the amp's sound open up, probably first requiring both Volume and Master settings to be past 12:00. A 5751 PI does not have enough gain for me, and caused me to run my Cut Control from a normal 9:00 position, to a new 3:00 position to sound close to the same.The tube I didn't like as my PI: NOS JAN GE 5751 (1980's). (Balanced)And still my current favorite PI: ANOS RCA 12AX7A. (Balanced at 95)If you roll the dice on a NOS PI tube, I vote you try out a Balanced RCA Gem!
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Post by Ben on Mar 24, 2011 9:52:35 GMT -7
Very cool BBPro - thanks for the added info.
I ordered a NOS 12AX7 RCA Grey longplate (50's) from Brent @ AudioTubes. These were made by RCA for TungSol and others.
Should be in here in a week or so!
Ben
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Post by myles on Mar 24, 2011 14:54:04 GMT -7
Myles - This is the one that I have. I can't recall exactly, but I believe it had either a Red or Blue painted tip. It peeled off a while back though, but its not going anywhere anyways! Can't tell from this shot but all of them were great. There were even some with silver plates that were outstanding as well. Happy playing!
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Post by Ben on Mar 24, 2011 16:01:25 GMT -7
Myles - This is the one that I have. I can't recall exactly, but I believe it had either a Red or Blue painted tip. It peeled off a while back though, but its not going anywhere anyways! Can't tell from this shot but all of them were great. There were even some with silver plates that were outstanding as well. Happy playing! This is a picture of the plates. Seems to me they are Grey plates rather than Silver plates. In either case, it does sound fantastic! Very very smooth gain, no sharp "edges" to the low-mids or highs.
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Post by jimmysmith on Mar 24, 2011 17:35:00 GMT -7
hi myles, i biased a pair of the new jj big bottle 6ca7s they came out with at 30 ma in a kt45 with a solid state rectifier. i have some 5ar4s but decided to try an rca 5v4 rectifier and rebiased, the bias had dropped to 20 so i had turn the pot back to 30 ma. could you briefly explain why and how that difference occurred? did the 5v3 rectifier take more volts off the tubes? or less? thanks for your help,,,
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Post by myles on Mar 24, 2011 19:21:36 GMT -7
hi myles, i biased a pair of the new jj big bottle 6ca7s they came out with at 30 ma in a kt45 with a solid state rectifier. i have some 5ar4s but decided to try an rca 5v4 rectifier and rebiased, the bias had dropped to 20 so i had turn the pot back to 30 ma. could you briefly explain why and how that difference occurred? did the 5v3 rectifier take more volts off the tubes? or less? thanks for your help,,, A 5V4 produces less voltage than a 5AR4. All voltages drop, plate voltage and also bias voltage. Those big bottle 6CA7s are little more than bigger glass EL34 tubes so don't expect them to work or sound like a real NOS 6CA7 from the past when they were made in America. If you let me know your B+ (plate) voltage I will give you a bias range. 30mA sounds too low for most KT45s that I have been inside. The amp will run cold and sound grainy. It will also not develop full output. Never use a 5Y3 in the KT45. The rectifier does not have the required current capability needed for the KT45.
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Post by jimmysmith on Mar 25, 2011 5:09:24 GMT -7
thank you, i used a 5V4 NOT a 5v3, just a misstype,, i was going by the range z suggests,, 28-32 ma, i didnt expect these new jj 6ca7s to be like real NOS, but they sound pretty good to me.
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Post by ktommy on Mar 25, 2011 8:05:22 GMT -7
Hi Myles, I've been told to ask you if I wanted to know the truth... My brand new KT-45 is on the way along with a zbest and I really can't wait...they're supposed to be finally mine next week and I expect to be amazed. That's my first Z!!! Since it's a new version I assume it will come with a SS rectifier, but here's my question: is it possible to simply remove the SS recto and put a 5AR4 instead? Should I have it done by a tech? Does it need a re-biasing too? I think I'll probably stick with the SS (I need it to be as clean as it can be), but you know, I'm too curious to not give it a shot. Furthermore, here in Europe I can find lots of EF806 and really few EF86...is it possible that they are just the same? As far as I know, it's important to have a spare for that particular tube and I really need to know what to buy!
Thank you so very much!!!
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Post by myles on Mar 25, 2011 9:41:44 GMT -7
Hi Myles, I've been told to ask you if I wanted to know the truth... My brand new KT-45 is on the way along with a zbest and I really can't wait...they're supposed to be finally mine next week and I expect to be amazed. That's my first Z!!! Since it's a new version I assume it will come with a SS rectifier, but here's my question: is it possible to simply remove the SS recto and put a 5AR4 instead? Should I have it done by a tech? Does it need a re-biasing too? I think I'll probably stick with the SS (I need it to be as clean as it can be), but you know, I'm too curious to not give it a shot. Furthermore, here in Europe I can find lots of EF806 and really few EF86...is it possible that they are just the same? As far as I know, it's important to have a spare for that particular tube and I really need to know what to buy! Thank you so very much!!! This is easy to do at home, plug and play. The solid state plugin supplies a bit more plate voltage than the 5AR4 / GZ34 so going from solid state to tube it is quite safe to plug and play. No bias adjustment is necessary and the the range of proper bias adjustment is factory set where this is not much of a concern. The SS rectifier will yield more clean headroom, tighter response, the amp will run a bit cooler and a solid state plug in is much more reliable than current issue tube rectifiers. An EF806 is generally the same tube as an EF86. I would think the EF86 / 6267 is quite easy to find in Europe as that is where the tube came from originally and some of the first amps to use them were the Vox amps. In Europe just look for Vintage Guitar in Norway or Max Guitar in Holland. They are both dealers that carry 65 Amps and many of those amps use an EF86. I would guess they could sell you spares. You can also order from MANY vendors in the USA.
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Post by myles on Mar 25, 2011 9:43:02 GMT -7
thank you, i used a 5V4 NOT a 5v3, just a misstype,, i was going by the range z suggests,, 28-32 ma, i didnt expect these new jj 6ca7s to be like real NOS, but they sound pretty good to me. I prefer 36mA or so but again, send me the plate voltage and I will send a range that seems to work best for my clients.
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Post by Scott on Mar 25, 2011 20:58:39 GMT -7
Myles, This is what I currently have for my Maz Jr info... Valid Rectifier Tubes to try in a Maz Jr. - The stock 5AR4 or (GZ34 The way the were marked in Europe.) 5V4 5U4 5Y3 Each tube going down the line will give you progressively: Less Power, Earlier breakup, More Compression, with a difference in the way the amp responds, now having a softer feel or 'More Sag'... ;D The tone of the amp may also change. I have just heard about the 5R4 Rectifier tube. Can it be used in a Maz Jr, and would I list it right above the 5Y3 like this? The stock 5AR4 or (GZ34 The way the were marked in Europe.) 5V4 5U4 5R4 5Y3 Is there any other Rectifier tubes that you know of, that can be run in a Jr? Thanks!
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Post by timford on Mar 26, 2011 1:27:54 GMT -7
Hi Myles, I've just picked up a cheap fretless bass p style for fun at home and am playing it through my kt45. I seem to recall hearing (I think it may have been yourself) mentioning that the kt45 is fine in this sort of application, I'm presuming at lower volume levels which I'm doing, but I just wanted to check and ask you whether there is anything that I should know. I'm having an absolute blast with it ztalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=strings&action=display&thread=39525
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Post by mickey on Mar 26, 2011 6:10:16 GMT -7
Hi, I have a question about my Maz Sr/rev head. This is probably tube related, but which ones? It also may be down to ear fatigue, which after 40 years of gigging is not surprising! Anyway, I've noticed the last couple of gigs everything is fine until near the end of the gig, when I've been playing a couple of hours, when the amp loses definition and seems to distort more, sounds a bit gutless. I changed the power tubes and PI a couple of months ago, but V1 has been in there for about 14 months. I have the amp running fairly hot, ie volume 3 o' clock, master around 10 or 11 o' clock, Airbrake on 2. Again, I realise that the symptoms I have described could be due to my hearing after two hours' playing, and obviously the amp will be well warmed up by that time, but otherwise any ideas?
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Post by myles on Mar 26, 2011 10:27:46 GMT -7
Myles, This is what I currently have for my Maz Jr info... Valid Rectifier Tubes to try in a Maz Jr. - The stock 5AR4 or (GZ34 The way the were marked in Europe.) 5V4 5U4 5Y3 Each tube going down the line will give you progressively: Less Power, Earlier breakup, More Compression, with a difference in the way the amp responds, now having a softer feel or 'More Sag'... ;D The tone of the amp may also change. I have just heard about the 5R4 Rectifier tube. Can it be used in a Maz Jr, and would I list it right above the 5Y3 like this? The stock 5AR4 or (GZ34 The way the were marked in Europe.) 5V4 5U4 5R4 5Y3 Is there any other Rectifier tubes that you know of, that can be run in a Jr? Thanks! In a MAZ Jr. stick with a GZ34/5AR4, 5V4 or 5Y3. You do not want any indirectly heated offbeats. There is no reason to try items that are so similar and would make little difference. Look on my GAB website at my rectifier section if you have not done that yet.
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Post by myles on Mar 26, 2011 10:31:34 GMT -7
Hi Myles, I've just picked up a cheap fretless bass p style for fun at home and am playing it through my kt45. I seem to recall hearing (I think it may have been yourself) mentioning that the kt45 is fine in this sort of application, I'm presuming at lower volume levels which I'm doing, but I just wanted to check and ask you whether there is anything that I should know. I'm having an absolute blast with it ztalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=strings&action=display&thread=39525You can actually use the amp for bass at any level. I would connect it to a bass speaker though at higher levels. The EQ on the amp is guitar in nature rather than base in nature but if it works to your ears it is a great way to go with a number of cool aspects ... pentode front end, nice clean tones, etc.
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Post by myles on Mar 26, 2011 10:36:41 GMT -7
Hi, I have a question about my Maz Sr/rev head. This is probably tube related, but which ones? It also may be down to ear fatigue, which after 40 years of gigging is not surprising! Anyway, I've noticed the last couple of gigs everything is fine until near the end of the gig, when I've been playing a couple of hours, when the amp loses definition and seems to distort more, sounds a bit gutless. I changed the power tubes and PI a couple of months ago, but V1 has been in there for about 14 months. I have the amp running fairly hot, ie volume 3 o' clock, master around 10 or 11 o' clock, Airbrake on 2. Again, I realise that the symptoms I have described could be due to my hearing after two hours' playing, and obviously the amp will be well warmed up by that time, but otherwise any ideas? If the power tubes have more the 50 hours on them then check them. If there was one marginal one, even when new, this could be the issue and sounds most like the issue. Or ... the EF86 in V1 is headed south which is almost as likely as you stated. Look at those (and look at V2, the phase inverter while you are looking at tubes). If the PI is a new production tube it too could have gone south. On the phase inverter, have a tech with proper test equipment look at the plate current, NOT the transconductance. You want as close to 1.2mA plate current spec. Nothing less than 1.0mA per triode (side) of the 12AX7. Most of today's production tubes are below 1.0 so if you were marginal to start you may be slipping more often now.
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Post by mickey on Mar 26, 2011 11:38:58 GMT -7
Thank you Myles for your helpful reply; I did think that the power tubes were most likely, I was just hoping not! I'll perhaps change the ECC83 in V1 first though, (the current one is a Svetlana 12AX7), and I have a spare PI tube for V5, (the one I put in there a couple of months ago was a new Sovtek 12AX7LPS balanced), so maybe try that too before getting another set of power tubes. I used JJ's; are these still recommended?
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Post by Scott on Mar 26, 2011 13:26:30 GMT -7
Myles, This is what I currently have for my Maz Jr info... Valid Rectifier Tubes to try in a Maz Jr. - The stock 5AR4 or (GZ34 The way the were marked in Europe.) 5V4 5U4 5Y3 Each tube going down the line will give you progressively: Less Power, Earlier breakup, More Compression, with a difference in the way the amp responds, now having a softer feel or 'More Sag'... ;D The tone of the amp may also change. I have just heard about the 5R4 Rectifier tube. Can it be used in a Maz Jr, and would I list it right above the 5Y3 like this? The stock 5AR4 or (GZ34 The way the were marked in Europe.) 5V4 5U4 5R4 5Y3 Is there any other Rectifier tubes that you know of, that can be run in a Jr? Thanks! In a MAZ Jr. stick with a GZ34/5AR4, 5V4 or 5Y3. You do not want any indirectly heated offbeats. There is no reason to try items that are so similar and would make little difference. Look on my GAB website at my rectifier section if you have not done that yet. Will do... thanks.
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Post by myles on Mar 26, 2011 15:32:07 GMT -7
Thank you Myles for your helpful reply; I did think that the power tubes were most likely, I was just hoping not! I'll perhaps change the ECC83 in V1 first though, (the current one is a Svetlana 12AX7), and I have a spare PI tube for V5, (the one I put in there a couple of months ago was a new Sovtek 12AX7LPS balanced), so maybe try that too before getting another set of power tubes. I used JJ's; are these still recommended? Real Svetlana (winged C from St. Petersburg not the Sovek branded Svetlana) makes the best production output tubes in the bizz at the moment in regard to 6L6. In regard to EL34 they are one of the two best, the other being Ruby Tubes. But ..... the Svetlana 12AX7 is a tube that has shown to have more problems than most any other 12AX7.
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Post by mickey on Mar 26, 2011 16:32:43 GMT -7
Thanks Myles, I'll change that one tomorrow, I've got a few new Tungsol and EH 12AX7's so I'll try those. When I originally bought the amp V1 was noisy, so the guy in the shop changed it for that Svet. Maybe I've been lucky to get that much use out of it! I hope the power tubes are OK, I only installed them at the end of January. (By the way, this is a Maz Sr, so no EF86....!)
I used Winged C 6L6's loads in the past before I changed to the Maz; they always sounded good and were very reliable. I assumed the 12AX7's would be the same. Oh well...
It's really great that you take the time and trouble to answer these questions, thanks again, and take care.
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Post by ktommy on Mar 27, 2011 5:41:29 GMT -7
Hi Myles, I've been told to ask you if I wanted to know the truth... My brand new KT-45 is on the way along with a zbest and I really can't wait...they're supposed to be finally mine next week and I expect to be amazed. That's my first Z!!! Since it's a new version I assume it will come with a SS rectifier, but here's my question: is it possible to simply remove the SS recto and put a 5AR4 instead? Should I have it done by a tech? Does it need a re-biasing too? I think I'll probably stick with the SS (I need it to be as clean as it can be), but you know, I'm too curious to not give it a shot. Furthermore, here in Europe I can find lots of EF806 and really few EF86...is it possible that they are just the same? As far as I know, it's important to have a spare for that particular tube and I really need to know what to buy! Thank you so very much!!! This is easy to do at home, plug and play. The solid state plugin supplies a bit more plate voltage than the 5AR4 / GZ34 so going from solid state to tube it is quite safe to plug and play. No bias adjustment is necessary and the the range of proper bias adjustment is factory set where this is not much of a concern. The SS rectifier will yield more clean headroom, tighter response, the amp will run a bit cooler and a solid state plug in is much more reliable than current issue tube rectifiers. An EF806 is generally the same tube as an EF86. I would think the EF86 / 6267 is quite easy to find in Europe as that is where the tube came from originally and some of the first amps to use them were the Vox amps. In Europe just look for Vintage Guitar in Norway or Max Guitar in Holland. They are both dealers that carry 65 Amps and many of those amps use an EF86. I would guess they could sell you spares. You can also order from MANY vendors in the USA. Great, thanx!!!
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 27, 2011 5:48:38 GMT -7
Thank you Myles for your helpful reply; I did think that the power tubes were most likely, I was just hoping not! I'll perhaps change the ECC83 in V1 first though, (the current one is a Svetlana 12AX7), and I have a spare PI tube for V5, (the one I put in there a couple of months ago was a new Sovtek 12AX7LPS balanced), so maybe try that too before getting another set of power tubes. I used JJ's; are these still recommended? Real Svetlana (winged C from St. Petersburg not the Sovek branded Svetlana) makes the best production output tubes in the bizz at the moment in regard to 6L6. In regard to EL34 they are one of the two best, the other being Ruby Tubes. But ..... the Svetlana 12AX7 is a tube that has shown to have more problems than most any other 12AX7. The real winged C is a pretty darn good new production 6L6. A pair came in my EZG-50 from the factory and I put in my set of new NOS RCA blackplate 6L6's and rebiased thinking it was REALLY going to be great...and a short time later put the "C"s back in. I know Doc tweaks his amps to sound best with the tubes they ship with but still...they sound pretty good to me.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 27, 2011 5:54:11 GMT -7
Hi Myles, I've just picked up a cheap fretless bass p style for fun at home and am playing it through my kt45. I seem to recall hearing (I think it may have been yourself) mentioning that the kt45 is fine in this sort of application, I'm presuming at lower volume levels which I'm doing, but I just wanted to check and ask you whether there is anything that I should know. I'm having an absolute blast with it ztalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=strings&action=display&thread=39525You can actually use the amp for bass at any level. I would connect it to a bass speaker though at higher levels. The EQ on the amp is guitar in nature rather than base in nature but if it works to your ears it is a great way to go with a number of cool aspects ... pentode front end, nice clean tones, etc. I've played bass through both my KT-45 and Route 66 into my Z-Best before. I don't do my Flea impersonation but at lower levels it actually sounds great. The EQ's on the Z amps isn't anywhere near the bass's low end range but my Modulus and Grosh basses have the Aguilar three band EQ that lets me fill out the low end and add presence quite nicely. For my passive bass I have an Xotic Tri-Logic pedal that has three band bass EQ on it...works great. I just keep in the back of my mind that it's a V30 and 12GH30 in there. It actually sounds much warmer than my Phil Jones rig, although I miss the PJ's unparalleled transient response and clarity.
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Post by myles on Mar 27, 2011 10:46:47 GMT -7
Thanks Myles, I'll change that one tomorrow, I've got a few new Tungsol and EH 12AX7's so I'll try those. When I originally bought the amp V1 was noisy, so the guy in the shop changed it for that Svet. Maybe I've been lucky to get that much use out of it! I hope the power tubes are OK, I only installed them at the end of January. (By the way, this is a Maz Sr, so no EF86....!) I used Winged C 6L6's loads in the past before I changed to the Maz; they always sounded good and were very reliable. I assumed the 12AX7's would be the same. Oh well... It's really great that you take the time and trouble to answer these questions, thanks again, and take care. If the Svetlana 12AX7 has been working for you and has tone you like there is no issue with continuing to use it. The issue was short term reliability and consistency. If you found a good one then by all means, feel free to use it. As inconsistent as they were they could not hold a candle to the high level of inconsistency of the GT 12AX7M Mullard Reissue but when you found a good one of those it was terrific.
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Post by myles on Mar 27, 2011 10:57:27 GMT -7
Real Svetlana (winged C from St. Petersburg not the Sovek branded Svetlana) makes the best production output tubes in the bizz at the moment in regard to 6L6. In regard to EL34 they are one of the two best, the other being Ruby Tubes. But ..... the Svetlana 12AX7 is a tube that has shown to have more problems than most any other 12AX7. The real winged C is a pretty darn good new production 6L6. A pair came in my EZG-50 from the factory and I put in my set of new NOS RCA blackplate 6L6's and rebiased thinking it was REALLY going to be great...and a short time later put the "C"s back in. I know Doc tweaks his amps to sound best with the tubes they ship with but still...they sound pretty good to me. Same sort of story, I had two clients who were friends and each had a Fender Pro Reverb blackface. They were blueprinted as to sound as close to each other as possible to the point that resistor values were fine tuned to attempt to compensate for things that could not be changed such as the output transformer. To give the amps a bit of individuality when played together they had different output tubes, both duets right on spec. One had =C= Svets and the other had GE 6L6 short bottles. Both amps sounded terrific but after a month or so the owner of the GE tubed amp asked to have his output tubes switched to the =C=. A side note ... during the Fender tolex era glory years, two 6L6 tubes were primarily used. Sylvania and GE. The GE after they could no longer procure the Sylvania STR387 after Tom Rubio at Sylvania passed away and the line that produced the tube could not be run reliably. The =C= is a direct copy of the Sylvania STR387. In the end it is all personal taste.
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Post by myles on Mar 27, 2011 10:58:29 GMT -7
You can actually use the amp for bass at any level. I would connect it to a bass speaker though at higher levels. The EQ on the amp is guitar in nature rather than base in nature but if it works to your ears it is a great way to go with a number of cool aspects ... pentode front end, nice clean tones, etc. I've played bass through both my KT-45 and Route 66 into my Z-Best before. I don't do my Flea impersonation but at lower levels it actually sounds great. The EQ's on the Z amps isn't anywhere near the bass's low end range but my Modulus and Grosh basses have the Aguilar three band EQ that lets me fill out the low end and add presence quite nicely. For my passive bass I have an Xotic Tri-Logic pedal that has three band bass EQ on it...works great. I just keep in the back of my mind that it's a V30 and 12GH30 in there. It actually sounds much warmer than my Phil Jones rig, although I miss the PJ's unparalleled transient response and clarity. I love Phil Jones Bass stuff!
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Post by jimmysmith on Mar 27, 2011 11:16:20 GMT -7
hi myles,, thanks for all your kind help. i retubed my 71 twin reverb using a standard bias probe, biased jj 6l6s at 28 ma, which is what it was the last time i had a tech recap it etc, i have to drive 2 hours to an amp tech (tulsa) and then leave the amp, may not see it again for a month, an electronics guy here can work on amps,but would you tell me what i might ask him to look for? the twin seems to fluctuate in volume, i put newer preamp tubes in v1 etc, and sometimes it sound like 35 watts with volume dimed then other times sounds like 120 watts. the amp really sounds good, but not all the time.. i dont know how to measure the plate voltage and amp trying to find some places on the net where i can learn about that, dont want to touch something i shouldnt... something about pin #3 on any octal power tube to chassis? where/which exactly is pin #3?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2011 18:58:08 GMT -7
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