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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jan 30, 2024 15:54:47 GMT -7
Shortly after I got my 35th Anni Ghia I started experimenting with different speakers (can't seem to help myself) and ended up liking the 10" Greenback a lot. It's been in there for quite a while. And the amp fell out of my rotation until today.
I pulled the amp out and played a couple of different guitars through it (LP and Strat) and still didn't love it. So I decided to put the stock WGS Veteran 10 back in.
Voila! The magic is there again and I'm having a blast with it. It just goes to show that Doc's ears are better than mine, and while I love to mod amps and change things up, I invariably end up going back to the Stock Configuration. And that includes tubes too.
So thanks, Doc. You're amazing and I wanted to give you a shout out.
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Post by gwmican on Jan 30, 2024 15:57:07 GMT -7
I did the same exact thing but the Greenback is still in mine. Maybe I should swap the WGS back in and give it another chance!
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Post by DRZ on Jan 30, 2024 16:03:46 GMT -7
Appreciate you Dave .
Stay Well, DR.Z
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Post by adam on Jan 30, 2024 16:47:37 GMT -7
I have a Z open back 2x12 and on a whim I put in a couple Jensen p12r speakers (cheapish $138/ea. alnico 25 watt speakers) thinking it might mate up well with the EZG for something more traditional fender sounding. It really sounds great, particularly clean with humbuckers, but noted a couple things that I thought were interesting:
1. They weigh nothing, like 3 lbs. each. Like not exactly the most robust speaker you've ever held.
2. The low 93.7db efficiency rating is really quite fun in that the amp has to be run quite a bit hotter to get the same volume. Not a bad thing at all.
3. The speaker distortion is kind of funny. If you run the amp to where they barely start to break up, it sounds great. If you go a hair over that, boy does it sound like crap. I know it's not the amp distorting at where the controls are on the amp. It's basically max clean headroom at medium drummer volume all said and done.
4. I tried at least 10 gain pedals with this setup and they all sounded horrific. So lesson learned there is maybe it's not so much does the amp take pedals well, but the speaker is a major factor there. Like some were so bad it sounded like the line out of the amp without a cab IR, just to give some idea of how bad that sounded.
To the point of your post though, I tried it with the Ghia and it sounds fantastic around that level the speaker starting to break up and below. Tons of color, not very loud (like not much if any headroom to deal with drummer level), but a killer sound at completely reasonable home volumes. Gain pedals didn't really work with the Ghia either, but just the natural sound of the amp with those speakers was a pretty cool thing.
And yes, just trust Z with the recommended speaker which I think always provides the best bang for the buck. But it's always fun to just try stuff too.
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Post by RickJames on Jan 30, 2024 17:10:55 GMT -7
I love Greenbacks for my Brit ish amps, so I tried a Greenback with my Jetta, but , of course Doc was right!
Jetta is stock as a rock and kills!!
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jla
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by jla on Jan 30, 2024 17:19:30 GMT -7
The 10” Mojotone Anthem might be worth a try. I have the 12” version in my Ghia now and love it.
I don’t have any experience with 10” speakers with the Ghia though.
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jla
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by jla on Jan 30, 2024 17:25:23 GMT -7
I have a Z open back 2x12 and on a whim I put in a couple Jensen p12r speakers (cheapish $138/ea. alnico 25 watt speakers) thinking it might mate up well with the EZG for something more traditional fender sounding. It really sounds great, particularly clean with humbuckers, but noted a couple things that I thought were interesting: 1. They weigh nothing, like 3 lbs. each. Like not exactly the most robust speaker you've ever held. 2. The low 93.7db efficiency rating is really quite fun in that the amp has to be run quite a bit hotter to get the same volume. Not a bad thing at all. 3. The speaker distortion is kind of funny. If you run the amp to where they barely start to break up, it sounds great. If you go a hair over that, boy does it sound like crap. I know it's not the amp distorting at where the controls are on the amp. It's basically max clean headroom at medium drummer volume all said and done. 4. I tried at least 10 gain pedals with this setup and they all sounded horrific. So lesson learned there is maybe it's not so much does the amp take pedals well, but the speaker is a major factor there. Like some were so bad it sounded like the line out of the amp without a cab IR, just to give some idea of how bad that sounded. To the point of your post though, I tried it with the Ghia and it sounds fantastic around that level the speaker starting to break up and below. Tons of color, not very loud (like not much if any headroom to deal with drummer level), but a killer sound at completely reasonable home volumes. Gain pedals didn't really work with the Ghia either, but just the natural sound of the amp with those speakers was a pretty cool thing. And yes, just trust Z with the recommended speaker which I think always provides the best bang for the buck. But it's always fun to just try stuff too. Sounds like those Jensen’s are underpowered for the EZG. Probably need two 50 watters. For the Ghia you need 30W total power handling minimum min IMO.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Feb 1, 2024 6:04:14 GMT -7
For the Ghia you need 30W total power handling minimum min IMO. The math does not dictate a need for a 30w speaker on an 18w amp. You're going to miss some speakers that a lot people love with the Ghia if you go by your opinion. Lots of people even love the Celestion Blue which is only 15w. You are only going to hit an issue if you hit that speaker with the circuit turned up all the way for hours. The good thing about that is you might blow the Blue, but it won't matter much because you'll be deaf. The Ghia is loud and has the legendary "Z Watts" in spades. But that doesn't mean you need to add a whole bunch of watts on the speaker you're considering. This is a great AMA from Doc on why his amps are "loud" for their watts.
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Post by Stephen on Feb 1, 2024 6:04:38 GMT -7
Dang it, Dave. I thought we were Greenback buddies. Now where did I put that WGS Veteran 20? ;>}
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Feb 1, 2024 9:50:42 GMT -7
Doc's AMA's are a treasure trove of knowledge. If newcomers would spend some time studying them it would answer a lot of their questions.
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wally
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by wally on Feb 1, 2024 10:34:53 GMT -7
I have a Ghia sitting on a 2x10 Shorty cab. I just put in a set of Weber 10f150Ts with light doping. Yes, the amp is loud….and articulate…and very musical. I like the results. Side note: yesterday a young pro player brought in an Caliphone amp I sold him a few years ago. This amp runs a 5Y3, A single EL84, and a 7199. The pentode in the 7199 is the preamp with the triode doing the driver duties….sound familiar?? When I set this little record player/P.A. up for guitar, I moved the tone control from the phono circuit to the mic circuit and did some manipulating to get it to function there. I had forgotten exactly what went on with that tone control, and I did not own my Ghia back then. When I was playing through the Caliphone yesterday, I adjusted the tone…and what do you know? ? It works just the way the Carmen Ghia’s tone control works…quite by accident, I readily admit. so, this little single-ended El84 amp with a pentode preamp sounds a great deal like a small Ghia! I have always liked the Caliphone, and he does, too. Through the same speakers, there is no denying the sonic resemblance…despite the difference in the output…single-ended versus Push/pull.
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jla
New Member
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Post by jla on Feb 1, 2024 20:40:53 GMT -7
For the Ghia you need 30W total power handling minimum min IMO. The math does not dictate a need for a 30w speaker on an 18w amp. You're going to miss some speakers that a lot people love with the Ghia if you go by your opinion. Lots of people even love the Celestion Blue which is only 15w. You are only going to hit an issue if you hit that speaker with the circuit turned up all the way for hours. The good thing about that is you might blow the Blue, but it won't matter much because you'll be deaf. The Ghia is loud and has the legendary "Z Watts" in spades. But that doesn't mean you need to add a whole bunch of watts on the speaker you're considering. This is a great AMA from Doc on why his amps are "loud" for their watts. 1.) I’ve blown two blues with the Ghia. Yes cranked at gig volumes. Loud but “normal” gig volumes to me. 2) my understanding is most tube amps are conservatively rated and put out significantly higher power when cranked. 3) most speaker manufacturers recommend doubling the amps total power handling hence 100W cabs( 4x 25 watt greenbacks) for a 50 watt plexi. 2 for 100W amps. 4) the blues were clearly under powered in the Ghia soncially ( low end bottoming out etc) even with gain at noon Of course many great tones are had with speakers under duress. But caveat emptor especially if you are spending $300 bucks a speaker
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Post by RickJames on Feb 1, 2024 21:14:43 GMT -7
I do think it depends on the design of the speaker, and how the manufacture rated it as well, as the dampening factors of the power amp. So, in my opinion, both options can work quite well with the right combination of components..
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jla
New Member
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Post by jla on Feb 1, 2024 21:23:11 GMT -7
I didn’t realize the Veteran 10 was a 20W speaker.
Sorry—I did not mean to call out the Dr or anyone else.
But I’ve personally destroyed $600 worth of speakers in my Ghia so wanted to relay my experience so others can make his own decision about how to run the amp.
And yes many vintage amps ran similarly rated speakers to the amps output. But many also don’t have their original speakers for this reason.
Also IMO you’re missing out on more running the Ghia with borderline powered speakers as you miss out on the “big amp” feel and how punchy it is throughout the range of the volume control if the speakers are farting out. And you can always double up a speaker you really like in a 2x12 or 2x10 ( for extra $$$).
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