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Post by jamminjohn on Jan 13, 2024 20:35:28 GMT -7
I was surprised to read that the Z28 MK2 has a 97 db 65w speaker yet other Z amps have the 100db 30 w speaker. The number one surprise was that by using the 97db speaker in this amp it's like cutting the power in half compared to using the other speaker. Essentially making this amp as loud as a 15 watt amp would be with the more efficient speaker. Conversely,the other amps like the Nova and Maz use the more efficient speaker making them much louder than the Z28. Strangely,the more efficient speaker only handles 30 watts. celestion.com/compare/Why is 3 dB half power? dB is a logarithmic function every increase of 10 is an order of magnitude change. As a result a change of plus three results in a doubling and a minus three halves the value. Is 3dB twice the power? To produce an increase of +3 dB you simply need to double power (watts). So, if you are getting 102 dB SPL from 100 watts and you want 105 dB SPL, you will need 200 watts of power. To produce a decrease of –3 dB you need half the power, so you would reduce power from 100 watts to 50 watts. jamminjohn
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jan 14, 2024 5:16:51 GMT -7
Your calculations are correct. However, unless you're playing big venues with bad PA support the amp has more than enough grunt. It's all about tone. I've played outdoor events with a full Big Band and my Z28 MKII never broke a sweat. In fact, I would absolutely dominate the horns if I wasn't careful.
Even 3dB down, that amp will be plenty loud for 99% of the gigs we might find nowadays.
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Post by scottyc13 on Jan 14, 2024 5:26:27 GMT -7
You also have to factor in the circuit design, PT/OT and cabinet for overall loudness. I’ve played the Z-28 MKII. It can get plenty loud and would be possibly too much with a more efficient speaker. What it has is great tone. The Creamback lets it breakup a little earlier if you want to set it on the edge. The cabinet gives it an almost 3D feel.
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Post by DRZ on Jan 14, 2024 8:53:14 GMT -7
Well jaminjohn just reading about an amps components and their rated specifications give NO idea about the sound, tone, and loudness of said amp. I'm always very disappointed when a player try's to evaluate and amp without plugging into it .
One must understand the speaker is the final transducer in a guitar amp, and the component that has more effect on the amps sound than any other single part period. I select my speakers for my combo's with great care auditioning many to select the one sounds the best for the design. The Z 28 was an amp I conceived to have the rich tone of one my very favorite amps, the Fender Brown Deluxe 1X12 combo. Of course I did not copy the schematic , just approached the build with a sonic response and designed to that end. Brown Deluxe's were equipped with an Oxford 12K5-3 12 inch speaker with a rated efficiency of 97.5 SPL. This speaker contributed IMHO the biggest portion of the amps overall response and great tone.
My amps by no means lack overall volume . Maybe plug into a Z 28 MKII and see if speaker overall efficiency is lacking , and then see if a larger SPL speaker would improve the sound, or just increase volume and add a piercing drive that would be detrimental to the design.
DR.Z
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Post by jamminjohn on Jan 14, 2024 11:18:40 GMT -7
Well jaminjohn just reading about an amps components and their rated specifications give NO idea about the sound, tone, and loudness of said amp. I'm always very disappointed when a player try's to evaluate and amp without plugging into it . One must understand the speaker is the final transducer in a guitar amp, and the component that has more effect on the amps sound than any other single part period. I select my speakers for my combo's with great care auditioning many to select the one sounds the best for the design. The Z 28 was an amp I conceived to have the rich tone of one my very favorite amps, the Fender Brown Deluxe 1X12 combo. Of course I did not copy the schematic , just approached the build with a sonic response and designed to that end. Brown Deluxe's were equipped with an Oxford 12K5-3 12 inch speaker with a rated efficiency of 97.5 SPL. This speaker contributed IMHO the biggest portion of the amps overall response and great tone. My amps by no means lack overall volume . Maybe plug into a Z 28 MKII and see if speaker overall efficiency is lacking , and then see if a larger SPL speaker would improve the sound, or just increase volume and add a piercing drive that would be detrimental to the design. DR.Z Hi Doc,thanks for chiming in. The trouble for me is that there is no place for me to audition your amps. All I can do is read comments and look at components. For many years I searched for my tone. I had Silverface/Blackface Fenders that we modded,a Boogie,Vintage 30,Pro Junior,Blues Junior. Messed with speakers and tubes and other mods looking for more mids and decent overdrive until one day I had an epiphany ! I was working in a factory and one of the workers acquired a Gibson guitar and a Brown Deluxe. I wasn't into the Les Paul (I should have bought it anyways) but the amp was the first amp I had plugged into that needed NOTHING ! This was 1983. She was already 21 years old. I bought it for $150 1983 dollars, $456.14 in 2023. I'll NEVER sell it. Your story is amazing. P90's are my favorite pickups. My list of amps that I'm considering is: Maz38 MK2 Nova Z28 MK2 Z Lux My favorite amps are the Brown Deluxe and the Low Powered Twin. My stable of tone is: 1) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe 2) '62 Brown Deluxe 3) Late 50's Tweed Pro with KT66's 4) Tweed Double Deluxe 5) Low Power Tweed Twin with KT66's 6) Single ended head that can run many different tubes with many cabinets I'm trying to sell my Tweed Double Deluxe so I can get one of your amps. So far I have not been able to sell it. Seems to be a buyers market. I tried to post a pic but I can't figure out how. jamminjohn
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Post by hardxray on Jan 15, 2024 9:35:14 GMT -7
I play a Z28 MK II through a Z-best 2x12 cab. I have it loaded with G12M Creamback 65 and a G12H 30w 70th Anniversary. To me it sounds fantastic - its big, tight, percussive drum like bass with sweet highs, and the overdrive has a really pleasing low-mid authoritative character - just what I'm after. My sonic-sense is that the Creamback 65 fills in the mids, while the G12H 30w 70th provides most of the bass and highs.
I enjoy the amp with the guitar straight in (Les Paul and/or a Strat) or only using one pedal - a Strymon Flint.
You will note the speakers are mismatched in sensitivity - do I notice that?....no, not really, it's just a beautiful blended sounded, the "swirl" can be heard and felt.
So what's my point - its loud. You turn up this amp through that cabinet and you may be asked to turn it down - volume is not an issue at all.
Thankfully, the Master works exceedingly well and can help deliver your tone at a volume that fits the listening requirement of the music and the venue - even at home.
For what it's worth, I'm actually thinking of trying a Jensen C12N paired with the Creamback 65 to match sensitivity ratings at 97 to see if the Z-best 2x12 can be tamed (in volume) just a bit.
Depending on cabinet choice, the Z28MKII will not leave you lacking for volume....
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Post by frankie on Jan 15, 2024 10:33:53 GMT -7
Well jaminjohn just reading about an amps components and their rated specifications give NO idea about the sound, tone, and loudness of said amp. I'm always very disappointed when a player try's to evaluate and amp without plugging into it . One must understand the speaker is the final transducer in a guitar amp, and the component that has more effect on the amps sound than any other single part period. I select my speakers for my combo's with great care auditioning many to select the one sounds the best for the design. The Z 28 was an amp I conceived to have the rich tone of one my very favorite amps, the Fender Brown Deluxe 1X12 combo. Of course I did not copy the schematic , just approached the build with a sonic response and designed to that end. Brown Deluxe's were equipped with an Oxford 12K5-3 12 inch speaker with a rated efficiency of 97.5 SPL. This speaker contributed IMHO the biggest portion of the amps overall response and great tone. My amps by no means lack overall volume . Maybe plug into a Z 28 MKII and see if speaker overall efficiency is lacking , and then see if a larger SPL speaker would improve the sound, or just increase volume and add a piercing drive that would be detrimental to the design. DR.Z Hi Doc,thanks for chiming in. The trouble for me is that there is no place for me to audition your amps. All I can do is read comments and look at components. For many years I searched for my tone. I had Silverface/Blackface Fenders that we modded,a Boogie,Vintage 30,Pro Junior,Blues Junior. Messed with speakers and tubes and other mods looking for more mids and decent overdrive until one day I had an epiphany ! I was working in a factory and one of the workers acquired a Gibson guitar and a Brown Deluxe. I wasn't into the Les Paul (I should have bought it anyways) but the amp was the first amp I had plugged into that needed NOTHING ! This was 1983. She was already 21 years old. I bought it for $150 1983 dollars, $456.14 in 2023. I'll NEVER sell it. Your story is amazing. P90's are my favorite pickups. My list of amps that I'm considering is: Maz38 MK2 Nova Z28 MK2 Z Lux My favorite amps are the Brown Deluxe and the Low Powered Twin. My stable of tone is: 1) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe 2) '62 Brown Deluxe 3) Late 50's Tweed Pro with KT66's 4) Tweed Double Deluxe 5) Low Power Tweed Twin with KT66's 6) Single ended head that can run many different tubes with many cabinets I'm trying to sell my Tweed Double Deluxe so I can get one of your amps. So far I have not been able to sell it. Seems to be a buyers market. I tried to post a pic but I can't figure out how. jamminjohn From that list, I believe you would most enjoy either the NOVA or the Z-28 Mk. II. The lowest on the list would be the MAZ 38. It is a brighter, more percussive, and higher headroom amp than any of the others you have listed.
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Post by jamminjohn on Jan 15, 2024 10:42:13 GMT -7
Thanks hardxray
I would not be running a cab though. You said that "the G12H 30w 70th provides most of the bass and highs." That wouldn't help me with the combo. You said "So what's my point - its loud. You turn up this amp through that cabinet and you may be asked to turn it down - volume is not an issue at all." You have 2 speakers so that is like doubling the power. Yes,it's loud. That's not what I would get with the combo with a single 97db speaker. I do mix speakers in my 2 x 12,4 x 8,and 8/10 cabinets but that's with a head. Mixing speakers is almost like having a chorus.
jamminjohn
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Post by jamminjohn on Jan 15, 2024 10:51:50 GMT -7
Thanks frankie. The Nova was at the top of my list for portability and size but it's expensive and I have not seen a used one yet. 1×12 LT Combo: 22 1/2” W, 20 1/8” H, 10” D; 36 lbs.
The Z28 does seem like the one price point wise but it's pretty big @ 1×12 Combo: 22″ W, 21 1/2″ H, 10 5/8″ D; 42 lbs.
I have to sell my Double Deluxe to make this happen. No luck so far.
jamminjohn
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Post by scottyc13 on Jan 15, 2024 10:56:14 GMT -7
Thanks frankie. The Nova was at the top of my list for portability and size but it's expensive and I have not seen a used one yet. 1×12 LT Combo: 22 1/2” W, 20 1/8” H, 10” D; 36 lbs. The Z28 does seem like the one price point wise but it's pretty big @ 1×12 Combo: 22″ W, 21 1/2″ H, 10 5/8″ D; 42 lbs. I have to sell my Double Deluxe to make this happen. No luck so far. jamminjohn The Z28 MKII combo is not that big. It’s only slightly bigger than my Z-Plus. It’s not that heavy either.
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sanox
New Member
Posts: 36
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Post by sanox on Jan 15, 2024 11:10:42 GMT -7
Hi jamminjohn. I was in the same boat as you. I bought the combo unheard and have been delighted with my decision. All my guitars sound unique through the Z28ii and it’s easy and adventurous to play with the tone stack. The Doc chose well concerning the Creamback 65 as an all round speaker. I have different speakers I bolt in for different flavours and experiences. I’ve done this with all my amps in the past. It’s an affordable way to explore. Don’t let the stock speaker get in the way of enjoying this amp. Eminence has many offerings at a 103db if you need your clean tone very loud. The Z28ii volume has never been an issue for me. Happy trails.
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Post by jamminjohn on Jan 15, 2024 12:02:13 GMT -7
Hi sanox. The stock speaker is probably fine. I like mids and I like real Tweeds. I might like it more than the Nova. Maybe. The Nova is lighter though and costs more.
jamminjohn
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