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Post by dyross on Aug 14, 2023 11:00:30 GMT -7
Hi folks,
New to the forum, and sorry for the long post, but hopefully all this info is helpful. I'm primarily a "bedroom player", and have been "amp-less" for a few years. I've been very much into the world of amp sim plugins etc. as I've mostly been practicing and recording at home. I also have an HX Stomp which I quite like. I play a Strat and an LP, and play varied music from jazz/blues to metal (I'm a prog rock guy).
Recently, I've been thinking about getting back to playing a real tube amp to go along with my digital setup, as I've been missing the amp-in-the-room feel and missing a bit of the tangible inspiration a tube amp can bring. My last tube amp was a Blues Jr., which I loved for cleans (especially for jazz combo in college), but never found it to be a versatile (nor quiet enough) amp for home use, outside of the lovely scooped cleans.
So, I'm looking for a high quality combo amp with the following features:
- Small enough to not dominate my small space - Real tube amp feel (e.g. feel the interaction between preamp and power amp drives, etc.) - Sounds good quiet, even when pushed a bit - Takes boosts / drives well (mostly via HX Stomp), and, possibly, won't sound horrible with a modern metal preamp boost (as good as a 12" combo can sound, that is) - Good FX loop, mostly to be used with HX Stomp
Been searching a bit, and found the Dr. Z Cure. Never played a Dr. Z before, but this amp seems to tick all the boxes, especially with the famous "level" control. Does it seem like I'm thinking about this right?
My only real concern is from reading the forum and watching some demos, I worry a bit that the voicing leans more towards Vox territory than scoopy blackface territory, especially cleans and edge tones. Most of the demos seem to skew towards country and jangly British invasion rock, so I'm wondering if that's what I should mostly expect. Or, can the Cure do the scooped Blackface clean thing well (at lowish volumes, at least)?
The other Z amp that looks geared for this use is the Jetta. But, I wonder if I won't quite get the same enjoyment out of just using the amp compared to the Cure. And, can I play it as quietly? How much better is the Jetta's FX loop compared to the Cure's?
If folks are wondering, another amp I'm considering (but haven't played yet) for this use-case is the Mesa Cali Tweed (20w combo).
Anyway, thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.
Cheers, David
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Aug 14, 2023 17:49:36 GMT -7
My experience with the Cure is as you have described, Fender BF but with far, far more gain potential. You can crank it over into serious rock territory at low volumes. Metal will need some front end help, but the amp is great by itself. Haven’t played a Cali tweed, but guessing from the name, tweed is what Randal is going for with that design. Obviously, I would take the Cure any day. And I play heavy stuff. Tool is my new go-to now for new stuff.
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Post by "Z" Steve on Aug 14, 2023 18:13:53 GMT -7
Welcome to the forum!! I just put a 12at7 in the PI position of my Cure after reading some posts by Stephen and his questions re the AT7. It did remove some of the highs as described and made it more useable at home. As you pointed out, the "level" control is the perfect ticket for you re the Cure along with it's compact size and less weight. And if/when you get to play out at a jam of any kind it will have the volume and authority you will need.
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Post by driventone on Aug 15, 2023 9:17:07 GMT -7
Hi David, welcome to the forum!
I also only play at home. I’ve had a ton of different amps for low-ish volume tube overdrive (Marshall JCM-1 50th anniversary 1 watt, Blackstar HT1R, Fender ‘57 Champ reissue, Orange Rocker 30 with master volume, JCM 800 4010 combo, 6G2 Princeton, and probably some I’ve forgotten). The 1-watt sounded too thin, the ones with no master were too loud when overdriven, and the ones with the master didn’t sound good unless I turned up the master, and then they were too loud.
After looking at Z Amps for years, I finally picked up a Mini Z and a Monza a couple years ago. I liked them both, but I could only keep one at the time so I hung onto the Monza. The Monza originally came with no master, but I had it sent to Dr. Z for the post-phase inverter master volume mod. I will say that the Monza with the PPIMV has the best heavy tube overdrive of any amp without a pedal that I’ve owned. I love it. And even at low low volume, it still sounds good.
I also started getting into pedals a few years ago, and for a while I was using a 1967 Vibro Champ with my pedal board, but I wanted a modern amp that could do Fender-ish black face cleans, and also take pedals well. (So I didn’t have to use a vintage amp all the time.)
In February, I started really looking, and I was down to either a Fender Deluxe Reverb, Princeton Reverb, a Dr. Z Carmen Ghia, or the Cure. The good folks here gave me some excellent advice, and I picked up the Cure. It was just what I was looking for. It takes pedals through the front end EXTREMELY well. I can’t comment on the effects loop because I haven’t tried it, but others say it works well too. I use a Milkman F-Stop for reverb, a Fulltone OCD, Wampler Plexi Drive, and JHS Bonsai (screamer) for overdrive, and a Fairfield Accountant compressor. I can get pretty much any tone I want out of it - surf, blues, blues rock, alternative, punk, hard rock, metal, etc. I grab that amp almost all the time now.
The Level control (which I believe is a PPIMV) on the Cure is fantastic. I usually run the master on full, volume around 9:30, and the level at about 9 - that gives me clean with almost no edge of breakup on it. If I turn the master down a bit, volume up a little, and level to control the overall output volume as needed, I can hit nice edge of breakup without a pedal. Excellent with a P90 in the neck position.
Good luck with the search! Let us know what you decide.
Ryan
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Post by dyross on Aug 15, 2023 11:05:05 GMT -7
Thanks for the responses! My experience with the Cure is as you have described, Fender BF but with far, far more gain potential. You can crank it over into serious rock territory at low volumes. Metal will need some front end help, but the amp is great by itself. Haven’t played a Cali tweed, but guessing from the name, tweed is what Randal is going for with that design. Obviously, I would take the Cure any day. And I play heavy stuff. Tool is my new go-to now for new stuff. For the cleans, any demos that you referenced that showed this? Your response is helpful, but I'm having a hard time finding anything online / youtube. As for the heavy stuff, Tool is awesome, as you know Do you find that the 12" combo holds it own when you drive it that hard with pedals in front? The demos of the Cali Tweed seem like the cleans start in BF territory, but it drives up more towards Tweed. That would mostly work for me. And it has a cool variable wattage system. But, I guess this is not the right place to discuss someone else's amp Welcome to the forum!! I just put a 12at7 in the PI position of my Cure after reading some posts by Stephen and his questions re the AT7. It did remove some of the highs as described and made it more useable at home. As you pointed out, the "level" control is the perfect ticket for you re the Cure along with it's compact size and less weight. And if/when you get to play out at a jam of any kind it will have the volume and authority you will need. This sounds interesting. Do you mind sending more info / links for this? Did Dr. Z do this at the shop, or is this a home operation? I haven't replaced a tube before. Did you find that this makes the amp more blackface-y? Or just generally more pleasing to your ears? Hi David, welcome to the forum! I also only play at home. I’ve had a ton of different amps for low-ish volume tube overdrive (Marshall JCM-1 50th anniversary 1 watt, Blackstar HT1R, Fender ‘57 Champ reissue, Orange Rocker 30 with master volume, JCM 800 4010 combo, 6G2 Princeton, and probably some I’ve forgotten). The 1-watt sounded too thin, the ones with no master were too loud when overdriven, and the ones with the master didn’t sound good unless I turned up the master, and then they were too loud. After looking at Z Amps for years, I finally picked up a Mini Z and a Monza a couple years ago. I liked them both, but I could only keep one at the time so I hung onto the Monza. The Monza originally came with no master, but I had it sent to Dr. Z for the post-phase inverter master volume mod. I will say that the Monza with the PPIMV has the best heavy tube overdrive of any amp without a pedal that I’ve owned. I love it. And even at low low volume, it still sounds good. I also started getting into pedals a few years ago, and for a while I was using a 1967 Vibro Champ with my pedal board, but I wanted a modern amp that could do Fender-ish black face cleans, and also take pedals well. (So I didn’t have to use a vintage amp all the time.) In February, I started really looking, and I was down to either a Fender Deluxe Reverb, Princeton Reverb, a Dr. Z Carmen Ghia, or the Cure. The good folks here gave me some excellent advice, and I picked up the Cure. It was just what I was looking for. It takes pedals through the front end EXTREMELY well. I can’t comment on the effects loop because I haven’t tried it, but others say it works well too. I use a Milkman F-Stop for reverb, a Fulltone OCD, Wampler Plexi Drive, and JHS Bonsai (screamer) for overdrive, and a Fairfield Accountant compressor. I can get pretty much any tone I want out of it - surf, blues, blues rock, alternative, punk, hard rock, metal, etc. I grab that amp almost all the time now. The Level control (which I believe is a PPIMV) on the Cure is fantastic. I usually run the master on full, volume around 9:30, and the level at about 9 - that gives me clean with almost no edge of breakup on it. If I turn the master down a bit, volume up a little, and level to control the overall output volume as needed, I can hit nice edge of breakup without a pedal. Excellent with a P90 in the neck position. Good luck with the search! Let us know what you decide. Ryan This sounds promising, and sounds like a sweet rig! Seems like you didn't consider a Jetta (maybe it wasn't available at the time?). I wonder how that one compares for your use-case? Do you mind sharing some of the factors that led you towards getting the Cure? How do you find the non-pedal cleans on the amp? Can you get a BF scooped tone?
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Post by "Z" Steve on Aug 15, 2023 12:12:39 GMT -7
Dr Z address changing out tubes at about the 5-minute mark in the "trouble shooting guide" video - this will demystify any concerns you might have in swopping out any tube. drzamps.com/video/?ytpage1=6
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Post by dyross on Aug 15, 2023 12:15:03 GMT -7
Dr Z address changing out tubes at about the 5-minute mark in the "trouble shooting guide" video - this will demystify any concerns you might have in swopping out any tube. drzamps.com/video/?ytpage1=6Sorry, which video are you referring to?
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Post by dcarver on Aug 15, 2023 13:09:18 GMT -7
Hi David Welcome to Z-Talk. Here's a link to Dr. Z's Trouble Shooting video:
If you haven't messed around with tube amps much, this video will explain a lot of the basics, and how to take care of them. Dr. Z has created a massive library of interesting and informative videos here: www.youtube.com/@drzamplification/videosYou can also get there by clicking the "Z-Tube" link in the header. BTW, Sweetwater has 1 Cure left in stock: www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Cure112ST--dr-z-cure-112-studio-15-watt-tube-comboIf you listen very carefully, you can hear it calling your name. Cheers and Good Luck with your amp quest.
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Post by driventone on Aug 15, 2023 15:12:09 GMT -7
This sounds promising, and sounds like a sweet rig! Seems like you didn't consider a Jetta (maybe it wasn't available at the time?). I wonder how that one compares for your use-case? Do you mind sharing some of the factors that led you towards getting the Cure? How do you find the non-pedal cleans on the amp? Can you get a BF scooped tone? (By the way, my Cure is the newer version with 5881’s, and I still don’t feel like it’s too loud for home use, even though they’re more powerful than the 6V6’s.) The Jetta was also suggested to me, and may have worked well, but I felt like it’s more than I need for at home playing. The Jetta does come with a Celestion G12H30, which is highly efficient and probably louder than the Z12 that comes in the Cure. I’ve never played a Jetta before but I’d love to try one. I think the main reason I went with the Cure is that I got so many suggestions telling me that it was the amp that would fit the bill for black face tones. As usual, the members here on the forum were right. I do feel like I can get black face scooped tones. For sure. My dad collected and sold only bigger vintage Fender amps in the late 90’s and early 2000’s (he called the business “The Vintage Fender Vender”) around when I was starting out on guitar. I remember getting to sit down and spend a day just try them all in a row - Bassman, Bandmaster, Tremolux, Vibrolux Reverb, Super Reverb, Showman, Dual Showman, etc. He also had some later silver face amps as well, like a Super Six Reverb we rescued from a pawn shop and restored. Good memories there. When I was shopping for an amp this year, black face Fender clean was the kind of clean tone I really wanted to go for. It took me all of 15 second to dial that in when I pulled it out of the box. I plugged in the Milkman for reverb, and I was there. Exactly what I wanted. I will say that I ran the treble on the lower side, maybe 11 o’clock, but mine did come with a 12AX7 phase inverter. I never tried putting a 12AT7 in there but I should. I put a Celestion Greenback in, and that sounds great with the Fulltone OCD and lots of drive, but the cleans lean more toward something like a black face Bassman now unless I run the treble higher. When I get time I’ll out the Z12 back in and try the 12AT7.
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Post by dyross on Aug 15, 2023 15:36:12 GMT -7
(By the way, my Cure is the newer version with 5881’s, and I still don’t feel like it’s too loud for home use, even though they’re more powerful than the 6V6’s.) The Jetta was also suggested to me, and may have worked well, but I felt like it’s more than I need for at home playing. The Jetta does come with a Celestion G12H30, which is highly efficient and probably louder than the Z12 that comes in the Cure. I’ve never played a Jetta before but I’d love to try one. I think the main reason I went with the Cure is that I got so many suggestions telling me that it was the amp that would fit the bill for black face tones. As usual, the members here on the forum were right. I do feel like I can get black face scooped tones. For sure. My dad collected and sold only bigger vintage Fender amps in the late 90’s and early 2000’s (he called the business “The Vintage Fender Vender”) around when I was starting out on guitar. I remember getting to sit down and spend a day just try them all in a row - Bassman, Bandmaster, Tremolux, Vibrolux Reverb, Super Reverb, Showman, Dual Showman, etc. He also had some later silver face amps as well, like a Super Six Reverb we rescued from a pawn shop and restored. Good memories there. When I was shopping for an amp this year, black face Fender clean was the kind of clean tone I really wanted to go for. It took me all of 15 second to dial that in when I pulled it out of the box. I plugged in the Milkman for reverb, and I was there. Exactly what I wanted. I will say that I ran the treble on the lower side, maybe 11 o’clock, but mine did come with a 12AX7 phase inverter. I never tried putting a 12AT7 in there but I should. I put a Celestion Greenback in, and that sounds great with the Fulltone OCD and lots of drive, but the cleans lean more toward something like a black face Bassman now unless I run the treble higher. When I get time I’ll out the Z12 back in and try the 12AT7. Thanks, this is super helpful and promising!
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Post by Don A on Aug 15, 2023 17:41:25 GMT -7
I've had a Cure for the past 4 years (the original 12AX7/12AT7/6V6/5AR4 version) and it has become my go to amp more and more over time. I use it mostly for gritty for tweed Deluxe-ish sounds (but tighter) and great brown Deluxe sounds (but fatter), with a hint of Vox.
The combination of the Master and Level controls is awesome! The ability to distort the phase inverter (or not) makes the amp really flexible.
The variable boost footswitch is great! If the Volume control and Master are set high, the boost makes the amp dirtier. If the Volume control and Master are set lower with the Level set higher, the boost makes the amp louder.
I've experimented with speakers and cabinets and really love the original Z-12 speaker.
Sometimes I put a Flint in the loop for reverb and tremolo, sometimes I don't. Same thing with OD and fuzz pedals in front of the amp. It takes them well, but I don't always need one.
I use the amp at home and with a band to play blues, rock, rootsy music...
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Post by dyross on Aug 16, 2023 11:58:05 GMT -7
Having done some more research, I see some folks struggling with the effects loop with the Cure (buffering, etc.).
Does the Jetta make this go away?
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Post by Don A on Aug 16, 2023 19:09:31 GMT -7
I'm not much of an effects loop user, so I'm not much help here. The Cure has a passive series loop. I use a Flint in the loop and it works well, but I don't know about other pedals.
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bigez
New Member
Posts: 46
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Post by bigez on Aug 18, 2023 11:17:09 GMT -7
I have both the Jetta and the Cure. i think the Cure is the one you want. the jetta has a great round, warm and punchy tone. lots of strong bass and not too bright. but it is very loud and doesn’t break up nearly as much as the cure. the cure gets a lot more dirt, has more EQ options, and is just lower wattage. i really like the z12 speaker it comes with as well. yeah, the loop on the cure is passive but i haven’t ever had an issue with it. i use an mxr reverb and an mxr tremolo into it almost daily and they sound great: no extra noise, no tonal change, no volume drop. i have also used boss and wampler delay pedals with no issues. the only thing i miss a little is that big, bold bass that you can really only get from higher wattage amps. both are great amps but i find myself playing the cure at home more often.
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Post by richiez on Aug 19, 2023 5:32:09 GMT -7
Having done some more research, I see some folks struggling with the effects loop with the Cure (buffering, etc.). Does the Jetta make this go away? Hi! I posted a thread regarding this last night. Basically the issue with the loop, from what I learned, is it runs at a high line level. Anything in the loop that can handle line level should be fine… the higher the threshold it can handle the better. I settled on a NUX Atlantic that has a line level switch and can handle up to +16db. I’m not sure of the spec on the HX stomp that I see you want to use. I also use a cheap Flamma looper in the loop with no issue. A Klein-ulator or similar in the loop is another solution. The amp is so amazing it’s worth it! Edit: Looks like stomp has a line level input so should be fine. I had one but didn’t remember.
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