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Post by GuitarZ on Aug 1, 2023 12:50:12 GMT -7
Let me lead this with "I'm pretty sure I'm a Greenback player". But, with that reference, with IRs and my UA Ox, I get to sample various speakers. I know it's not 100% like the real thing. But, the UA Ox is pretty darn good. So, multiple times, I've tuned in an openback 1x12 Celestion Blue with some nice speaker & room mics to energize the sound. However, I can't warm up to the sound. I get close at times. But, I always switch back to my Greenback and go "Yea!". I'm thinking I really like the midrange growl of the Greenback with a fuller bottom vs the Blue. The Blue is typically a little too 'top endy' for me. I did mess with the UA Ox's 'Speaker Drive' which is supposed to emulate a new vs broken-in speaker, and it did smooth the highs. But, - Is my sound just not a match for a Blue?
- Do I need to adjust my amp to get the Blue to sing since it's set up more for Greenbacks?
- What am I missing? Help Me! Help Me!
The start of this tune is probably a good sample of my guitar sound if it helps. I'm vocalist/strat player. (Wow! I wasn't 100% grey in this video! )
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Post by adam on Aug 1, 2023 16:25:30 GMT -7
Tune sounds good all around.
I guess I'd say you dial in the amp to where it sounds right to you with whatever guitar, amp and speaker you are using. Sometimes, you sort of hit on a magical combination. I'd also throw out any preconceived notion from a modeling anything. My greenback 4x12's sound nothing like the one in the ox. Doesn't mean they don't sound good, but they sure don't sound like mine.
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Post by sharkboy on Aug 1, 2023 17:07:28 GMT -7
I’m definitely not going to argue what is right for you. I really like the blue and the gold sounds. I also find them best with single coils. Maybe output volume is a large part of how they sound best, but I really like them even at low volume. (I have a pair of greenbacks that seem kind of dark/bleak in comparison- I also think they don’t sound as good as they used to.)
My analogy is that I like maple acoustic guitars because their response is strong/hard from 70hz up to the top. It’s like that for the blues and golds for me. Another element is that I am a vocalist and I don’t want to escalate volume wars- I can poke out at lower volumes with a harder sounding speaker. Does that make sense?
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Aug 1, 2023 17:35:46 GMT -7
You have to hear the real thing to appreciate them.
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Post by scottyc13 on Aug 2, 2023 3:48:57 GMT -7
I think the Blue works well for certain amp circuits like the AC30, but not every amp. I’ve got a Weber version and I did not like it in my Bassman or Plexi style amps. I have it currently in a cab for my Ghia and it sounds good. It is a brighter upper mids speaker and Strats or Teles can sound too bright with it.
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Post by RickJames on Aug 2, 2023 9:16:46 GMT -7
Great performance and production value! ………….dig your sound , it truly matches your style and song ………… i’m a big green back fan as well, and I do find most versions of the Alnico blues are a little too bright, and seem at least for me to lack that mid range I need, (with the exception of an old AC 30, of course)
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Post by RickJames on Aug 2, 2023 16:11:01 GMT -7
Too me , I think one of the reasons we all love the old AC 30s, is because most of the time we played them, and we heard them cranked, and all of that natural compression I think, really smooth out the high end and sweetened it and removed any harshness.. my 02
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Post by GuitarZ on Aug 3, 2023 7:58:08 GMT -7
First, Thanks! You actually changed my perspective. Also, the point about hearing an actual Blue vs a model is also very smart. This triggered an idea. YouTube must have Greenback vs Blue comparisons. It was interesting because I could hear 'my sound' with the Greenbacks. But, I could hear familiar sounds with the Blues. And, with my adjusted perspective from your wisdom, I realized it's not that one's better than another, it's the sound you want. Duh! For whatever reason, I was thinking if one sounds good, then the other builds on that and is better. That's like saying either a Les Paul builds on a Strat or visa versa which would make zero sense. At my age, I should know better. I did fire up the Ox. But, this time I just set all of my tones at noon on the Maz Jr and worked from there for a good sound instead of building from my Greenback settings. And, I did find good tone. I then fired up my 50 watt Marshall for the heck of it and was able to dial in some more good tone that was very fun to play with. And, you really don't get a chance to ram a 50 watt Marshall into a 15 watt Blue without producing smoke in the real world. I will say, that once I leaned on the room mics rather than the speaker mics, I could get a sense of some cool magic. I still believe I'm a Greenback guy. But, I now realize I have another tool in the arsenal to add flavor vs thinking I'm just replacing a tool.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Aug 3, 2023 12:18:08 GMT -7
I'd also say the Blue sounds best with the band. Alone in the music room, it is bright ... very bright. But in the band you get that famous chimey punch. I find many/most amp tones are like that -- what sounds good alone in the room sound mushy and muddy with the band. I love the Blue with the ZPlus.
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matte
New Member
Posts: 45
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Post by matte on Aug 3, 2023 16:17:21 GMT -7
Yeah speakers and cabs are so important yet most of us are pretty unfamiliar with them. I mean they’re probably the most impactful part of the tone shaping chain, but we tend to just use one speaker model and/or cab and switch out everything else. Or we just play a combo and completely judge how the amp sounds without trying different speakers.
I’ve become a bit of a cab/speaker collector lately. I have two 412’s with v30’s. They are similar but definitely different. I have a trm convertible 212 with newer greenbacks and a brand new Marshall 1960ax. They sound quite a bit different. So even the cabs matter. Imo you can’t play a speaker in one cab make a firm decision on how you feel about it. You can definitely get a general idea of what a speaker does. But the cab definitely fine tunes it. And then I have several other cabs with various speakers. It’s definitely a deep subject. Because the volume you’re using a speaker at matters too. And using a cab in a band situation will change your perspective too. Anyway keep exploring and learning. It can be a deep hole. Haha.
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Post by adam on Aug 3, 2023 17:04:15 GMT -7
Wise words Matte.
We try to categorize stuff or something, but everything is different on any different day probably due to stuff we don't understand at all like the shuman resonance or whatever that is. The other day I was using a Remedy into a greenback 2x12 with an old Strat and played for hours and just couldn't image anything sounded better. Played a little at lunch today and the 1960ax with the remedy was a real winner, as was a 1960av (2 of the v30's replaced with H30's) with an antidote, as was a Ghia with a 1x12 gold. I'll probably feel different tomorrow.
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Post by GuitarZ on Aug 10, 2023 8:20:14 GMT -7
adam & matte - You guys have quite a collection of speakers & cabs. Dang! That would be cool to rock through the different combinations. I get a chance to do it every now and then at a rehearsal space. But, most times, the rehearsal space doesn't really sport quality cabs. So, it's my 1x12 for me. Enjoy that Sonic Splendor!
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Post by RickJames on Aug 10, 2023 9:24:17 GMT -7
1x12”s are my favorite, however I do have one of Dave’s early hand wired 1x10 that kills, and Doc is giving me the fever for a 35th anniversary Carmen Ghia!
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Post by steiner on Aug 10, 2023 17:53:38 GMT -7
GuitarZ - Get a good sound going through the OX. Go into the editor and start swapping cabs; select cabs with the same speaker you'll hear a big difference. It seemed to me that the various cabs are tuned to particular keys. UA makes wonderful gear and I adore the OX but I noticed different amps require different cab simulations to "get there." Even the same speaker sounds remarkably different in different cabs. The same holds true in the real world.
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