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Post by driventone on Mar 17, 2023 7:25:54 GMT -7
I have a set of vintage 6L6GC’s that I would like to try sometime in my new Cure amp, just out of curiosity. I’m happy with the Tung-Sol 5881’s that are in it, but the experimenter and tinkerer in me wants to see how different the old ones sound.
So, I know that originally, 6L6GB’s we’re rated for lower plate voltage and dissipation than 5881’s, and 5881’s supported lower plate voltage and dissipation than 6L6GC’s. (I’m reality, the specs increased as new versions were developed.) But, I have seen other New Sensor tubes that are 5881’s, but are also stamped “6L6GC”.
Would it be safe to use 6L6GC’s in a Cure that is set up for 5881’s? I would guess that surely, you wouldn’t want to use 5881’s in an amp that calls for 6L6’s, because the plate voltages and resulting wattage might be beyond what the tube can handle. But, would a 6L6 be ok where a 5881 is normally used? Maybe one wouldn’t want to do this in a cathode-biased amp?
Thank you.
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Post by driventone on Mar 22, 2023 18:15:53 GMT -7
I’ve been giving this some thought, and I don’t think I’m going to do it. Both JJ and New Sensor/Tung-Sol/SOVTEK 5881’s are readily available if I were to need replacements.
But, the main reason I’m not doing it is that the amp sounds fantastic and works perfectly as is. No need to mess with a good thing.
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Post by purpletele on Mar 22, 2023 20:24:40 GMT -7
I’ve been giving this some thought, and I don’t think I’m going to do it. Both JJ and New Sensor/Tung-Sol/SOVTEK 5881’s are readily available if I were to need replacements. But, the main reason I’m not doing it is that the amp sounds fantastic and works perfectly as is. No need to mess with a good thing. I was wondering how that would turn out. I think with 6L6's you have to change the screen resistors and maybe the Cathode Resistor, so it's a bit of a Mod to achieve that. That amp sounds great as you noted. Glad you don't need to mess with it
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Post by frankie on Mar 23, 2023 9:52:09 GMT -7
They are basically the same tube. They will sound about 1% different from each other. The power tube limits are limits, it's not going to hurt your amplifier. It's like putting a 50 watt speaker in a 15 watt amp. It's not going to do damage to the amp.
But what I say to all tube rollers, especially with power tubes, and no matter how old they are. A good tube is working tube. The tonal benefits from changing good working power tubes is not worth the potential for reliability issues in un-vetted tubes. Especially NOS tubes. If you aren't screen the tubes yourself, the majority of NOS tubes on the market are actually screened rejects from the batches of good tubes that went out 40-50 years ago.
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Post by helmi on Mar 23, 2023 16:27:18 GMT -7
If you aren't screen the tubes yourself, the majority of NOS tubes on the market are actually screened rejects from the batches of good tubes that went out 40-50 years ago. So your saying the majority of NOS tubes for sale now are rejects from the past. Thats quite a statement to make!
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Mar 23, 2023 19:49:58 GMT -7
If you aren't screen the tubes yourself, the majority of NOS tubes on the market are actually screened rejects from the batches of good tubes that went out 40-50 years ago. So you’re saying the majority of NOS tubes for sale now are rejects from the past. Thats quite a statement to make! As Doc once said (something like), “When it come to NOS tubes, we’re down to seeds and stems”
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Post by helmi on Mar 24, 2023 3:30:10 GMT -7
So you’re saying the majority of NOS tubes for sale now are rejects from the past. Thats quite a statement to make! As Doc once said (something like), “When it come to NOS tubes, we’re down to seeds and stems” Im sure an amp builder who has to have consistency and reliability from amp to amp and needs to buy a 1,000 of something, that is true. to the individual looking for 2 or 3 of this or that for his personal amps, absolutely not.
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Post by DRZ on Mar 24, 2023 8:25:47 GMT -7
As Doc once said (something like), “When it come to NOS tubes, we’re down to seeds and stems” Im sure an amp builder who has to have consistency and reliability from amp to amp and needs to buy a 1,000 of something, that is true. to the individual looking for 2 or 3 of this or that for his personal amps, absolutely not. Oh yeah Helmi, How many true NOS tubes have you bought lately ? Think about it if your looking at say RCA or GE output tubes they were built in the 60"s so SIXTY years ago, how many true New Old Stock Matched sets are still left ? Many tubes that are now sold as NOS are actually old used pulls that the seller polishes up with Windex and puts them in nice box and sells them a new unused , this happens more often with pre-amp tubes. Also sellers buy tubes from users that have horded sets as back ups and if these tube were not stored correctly they will fail in short order, don't ask me how I know. Z
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Post by helmi on Mar 24, 2023 8:45:46 GMT -7
Im sure an amp builder who has to have consistency and reliability from amp to amp and needs to buy a 1,000 of something, that is true. to the individual looking for 2 or 3 of this or that for his personal amps, absolutely not. Oh yeah Helmi, How many true NOS tubes have you bought lately ? Think about it if your looking at say RCA or GE output tubes they were built in the 60"s so SIXTY years ago, how many true New Old Stock Matched sets are still left ? Many tubes that are now sold as NOS are actually old used pulls that the seller polishes up with Windex and puts them in nice box and sells them a new unused , this happens more often with pre-amp tubes. Also sellers buy tubes from users that have horded sets as back ups and if these tube were not stored correctly they will fail in short order, don't ask me how I know. Z Actually i’ve bought quite alot in the last year or so, and have enjoyed experimenting with them. I didnt see anything in my reply that would have offended you or the company, so i’m a little puzzled by the snarky reply, or are you just sticking up for Frankie? We all know your the expert, but that doesnt make everybody else a village idiot. making a statement like “ the majority of all nos tubes out there are rejects” seems a little on the exaggerated side to me. If so, then i guess someone should tell Perry R that all those nos 6n14n tubes that everybody loves (including myself) are all just really reject tubes, or are those the only good ones in existance?
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Post by DRZ on Mar 24, 2023 9:03:26 GMT -7
Actually i’ve bought quite alot in the last year or so, and have enjoyed experimenting with them. I didnt see anything in my reply that would have offended you or the company, so i’m a little puzzled by the snarky reply, or are you just sticking up for Frankie? We all know your the expert, but that doesnt make everybody else a village idiot. making a statement like “ the majority of all nos tubes out there are rejects” seems a little on the exaggerated side to me. If so, then i guess someone should tell Perry R that all those nos 6n14n tubes that everybody loves (including myself) are all just really reject tubes, or are those the only good ones in existance? OK answering what you call my snarky reply, with one of your typical snarky remarks. All's well in the VILLAGE I see.
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Post by frankie on Mar 24, 2023 9:26:46 GMT -7
If you aren't screen the tubes yourself, the majority of NOS tubes on the market are actually screened rejects from the batches of good tubes that went out 40-50 years ago. So your saying the majority of NOS tubes for sale now are rejects from the past. Thats quite a statement to make! Let me clarify my statement, and sharpen it so there's no confusion. The common reseller of NOS tubes you would find on Ebay or craigslist has a highly likely probability of being a "pull" or rejected in the sense that it was not matched to another set. I've got boxes of them in the 6n14n screening process. Tubes that test either much too high or too low to be matched up as a reliable set. The point of my statement is if you aren't buying from a reputable reseller with a warranty on their products, or have a method of screening the tubes yourself, don't expect flawless reliability and a vast improvement from NOS tubes you find from an anonymous seller on ebay. Your money is better spent elsewhere. Perry screens his tubes. He's a reputable seller, or else we wouldn't be suggesting him as a 6n14n seller. So don't pull him into this with some sort of unnecessary twist or implication that I'm implying he shouldn't be selling NOS or we shouldn't be suggesting him as reseller because he sells NOS tubes. That's unfair to both what I said, and Perry. I didn't say that, you stretched that, and it's not appreciated. That said, to the OP, save those 6L6 as a back up, they will work, and keep rolling with those 5881s that have been working so far.
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Post by helmi on Mar 24, 2023 11:11:04 GMT -7
So your saying the majority of NOS tubes for sale now are rejects from the past. Thats quite a statement to make! Let me clarify my statement, and sharpen it so there's no confusion. The common reseller of NOS tubes you would find on Ebay or craigslist has a highly likely probability of being a "pull" or rejected in the sense that it was not matched to another set. I've got boxes of them in the 6n14n screening process. Tubes that test either much too high or too low to be matched up as a reliable set. The point of my statement is if you aren't buying from a reputable reseller with a warranty on their products, or have a method of screening the tubes yourself, don't expect flawless reliability and a vast improvement from NOS tubes you find from an anonymous seller on ebay. Your money is better spent elsewhere. Perry screens his tubes. He's a reputable seller, or else we wouldn't be suggesting him as a 6n14n seller. So don't pull him into this with some sort of unnecessary twist or implication that I'm implying he shouldn't be selling NOS or we shouldn't be suggesting him as reseller because he sells NOS tubes. That's unfair to both what I said, and Perry. I didn't say that, you stretched that, and it's not appreciated. That said, to the OP, save those 6L6 as a back up, they will work, and keep rolling with those 5881s that have been working so far. That wasn’t meant as a slight or an insult to Perry in any way. I have bought from Perry several times. he is reputable, and a nice person to deal with. I only meant that in the context as an example regarding your statement about NOS tubes, so dont make it into something it’s not.
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Post by helmi on Mar 24, 2023 11:12:39 GMT -7
Actually i’ve bought quite alot in the last year or so, and have enjoyed experimenting with them. I didnt see anything in my reply that would have offended you or the company, so i’m a little puzzled by the snarky reply, or are you just sticking up for Frankie? We all know your the expert, but that doesnt make everybody else a village idiot. making a statement like “ the majority of all nos tubes out there are rejects” seems a little on the exaggerated side to me. If so, then i guess someone should tell Perry R that all those nos 6n14n tubes that everybody loves (including myself) are all just really reject tubes, or are those the only good ones in existance? OK answering what you call my snarky reply, with one of your typical snarky remarks. All's well in the VILLAGE I see. Feel better now? I’ll give you the last word. have a great day!
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Post by driventone on Mar 24, 2023 11:32:10 GMT -7
Think about it if your looking at say RCA or GE output tubes they were built in the 60"s so SIXTY years ago, how many true New Old Stock Matched sets are still left ? The tubes I was referring to in the original post are kind of case-in-point here. They were advertised on Craigslist as a “matched quad”. I’m smart enough to know that’s probably not the case, but I only wanted a pair so I took the gamble and picked them up, hoping I’d find a good pair between the four. I don’t bring a tester, but the price was good enough. They all have matching date codes and original boxes, so maybe they are NOS? In my Dynakit, I listened to them and tested them as pairs. All four of them had nearly the same current draw, so they match for current, but on my Hickok tube tester, one of them was a lot lower than the other three for Gm readings. So I was able to make one pair from a quad. In this case, I knew what I was getting into, and didn’t expect them to be a matched quad. But you’re right, it’s not safe out there online to just search for “NOS” and think that you can take their word for it. A lot of people unfortunately abuse that term, either knowingly or ignorantly. Reputation means a lot. I would feel perfectly comfortable buying NOS tubes from Perry, for example.
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Post by dcarver on Mar 24, 2023 12:29:51 GMT -7
There's plenty of good old tubes out there. If they are NOS or used who cares, as long as they sound good. Ya just gotta know who you're buying from. Like everything else, it's caveat emptor.
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Post by driventone on Mar 24, 2023 13:48:44 GMT -7
Thank you Frankie, I do plan to save these as spares as you suggested, and I’ll use the 5881’s it came with. Still loving the amp!
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Post by DRZ on Mar 24, 2023 14:00:18 GMT -7
OK answering what you call my snarky reply, with one of your typical snarky remarks. All's well in the VILLAGE I see. Feel better now? I’ll give you the last word. have a great day! OK another sterling contribution to the Z Talk Forum Martin.
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Post by purpletele on Mar 24, 2023 16:24:10 GMT -7
What a derailment, my gosh.
Let's get back on the tracks and roll!
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Post by Rockerfeller on Mar 24, 2023 16:54:35 GMT -7
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Mar 24, 2023 20:54:20 GMT -7
As Doc once said (something like), “When it come to NOS tubes, we’re down to seeds and stems” Im sure an amp builder who has to have consistency and reliability from amp to amp and needs to buy a 1,000 of something, that is true. to the individual looking for 2 or 3 of this or that for his personal amps, absolutely not. Understand the desire for the golden BB. But a tube either works or it doesn’t. A true NOS will typically last longer than new production, but most of what you see out there is ANOS. The “goods” are mostly gone.
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Post by DRZ on Mar 25, 2023 4:26:24 GMT -7
Oh yeah Helmi, How many true NOS tubes have you bought lately ? Think about it if your looking at say RCA or GE output tubes they were built in the 60"s so SIXTY years ago, how many true New Old Stock Matched sets are still left ? Many tubes that are now sold as NOS are actually old used pulls that the seller polishes up with Windex and puts them in nice box and sells them a new unused , this happens more often with pre-amp tubes. Also sellers buy tubes from users that have horded sets as back ups and if these tube were not stored correctly they will fail in short order, don't ask me how I know. Z Actually i’ve bought quite alot in the last year or so, and have enjoyed experimenting with them. I didnt see anything in my reply that would have offended you or the company, so i’m a little puzzled by the snarky reply, or are you just sticking up for Frankie? We all know your the expert, but that doesnt make everybody else a village idiot. making a statement like “ the majority of all nos tubes out there are rejects” seems a little on the exaggerated side to me. If so, then i guess someone should tell Perry R that all those nos 6n14n tubes that everybody loves (including myself) are all just really reject tubes, or are those the only good ones in existance? OK lets take a step back. One thing that makes this forum special is the lack of bickering and snarky remarks fired back and forth, and the free exchange of useful amp based information , and I'm very proud of that. Martin your initial reply in no way offended me or my company and my reply to you in no way reflects that IMHO. I only asked you how many NOS tubes have you bought lately , to which you didn't specifically answer. You stated you enjoy experimenting with them, believe me that is something I have done in countless hours over my 35 years of designing guitar tube amps. It is so beneficial to form opinions about different characteristics and tones of various tube types when inserted in different circuits. I fail to see any " Snarkiness" in my response to you just tried to state facts from my experience. As some one who purchases nearly 1000 tubes a month it is sad to see the decline in quality as well as quantity in all available tubes today. Suppliers such as the Sino plant in China is closed, our supply of Russian made tubes is very weak at the moment, and that only leaves JJ as an over demanded source with limited production. Now that is new production tubes as for the " NOS tubes " can you tell me how many products that were produced over 60 years ago that you can buy today as new never sold or used , I'll wait ... The supply is small and I question how authentic what is being marketed today, not " sticking up for Frankie " that was a very offensive remark on your part and I did take offense with it. I was just trying to impart some caution for the state of tube purchases as of late, sad but true. You seemed to be offended by my insight , that wasn't my intention at all.
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Post by helmi on Mar 25, 2023 5:48:52 GMT -7
No explanation at all on your part is ever necessary sir, but I thank you. this is your forum page, I am only a temporary guest here. all is well in my village. carry on!
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