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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jan 26, 2021 17:45:09 GMT -7
And this amp is more fun to play every day. The interaction of the controls and the different feels and sounds within this beast is inspiring to say the least. In another thread it was noticed that Mesa amps tend to be really persnickety when setting up a tone. It's so easy to mess the tone up on a Mesa (at least the DC-3 I had for a year or so), and that's what I really dig about the CAZ-45. It's hard to mess up the tone on this amp! Every setting offers up a new pallet of sound. The controls all interact in a way that was designed so well that they can take you from a Pink Floyd "Comfortably Numb" tone to a drop-d mayhem metal sound.
I guess I'm just saying that the longer I experience the amp the more I appreciate it. It covers so many bases that it might just be my desert island amp. Besides delay or modulation, no pedals required for tone. It's all right there. Way to go, Doc...way to go!
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Jan 26, 2021 18:16:44 GMT -7
I would never use anything really high gain. It sounds like even though this was designed to be able to do that it also does clean and crunchy well. Can you share your thoughts on the non-high gain tones you’re getting?
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jan 27, 2021 5:58:37 GMT -7
I just dial the Sensitivity control and Aggression back, bring the gain up to taste. You can get almost any sound you want out of the amp. After reading your question I fired it up and got a really nice clean tone with the Aggression at 9:00, Sensitivity at around 8:30-9:00, Gain at 9:00-10:00 and Level wide open.
When I went down to Cleveland to drop off a couple of amps for upgrades and to pick up my CAZ, Doc was so cool. I took my Explorer and my Les Paul Custom and plugged them in. He really questioned me as to whether I wanted an amp that can be this heavy because he knows I'm not a head banging metal guy. He was totally more interested in fulfilling my needs than in selling an amplifier, and he made that plain. But I heard tones in there that I'd never heard in another amp and so #1 came home with me that day.
Now I'm not a drop-D metal guy, and play mostly praise, blues, and classic rock stuff...so this amp certainly exceeds my needs in that arena. But, and this is a huge but, I can dial back the CAZ to get very much a tweed or brown face type clean tone from it. There is a little hair around the edges and I can't make it sound like a blackface, but considering how this amp will knock walls down it's amazing how clean I can get it. And I'm learning more about how the controls work and interact with themselves each day.
I love the way it responds to my guitar's controls. I just don't need a drive pedal. I can pull back on the guitar volume and get good, very usable rhythm tones. When it's time for a solo, just hit the volume with your pinky and you are rockin'.
At first I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to use the CAZ at church...in my mind it was a rock and roll beast amp. But the more I play it the more I appreciate how really usable it is. It will clean up nice for Aunt Nancy, but it's like having a pedal board full of overdrives and distortion pedals all together on the front panel of your amp.
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Post by DRZ on Jan 27, 2021 6:44:53 GMT -7
I just dial the Sensitivity control and Aggression back, bring the gain up to taste. You can get almost any sound you want out of the amp. After reading your question I fired it up and got a really nice clean tone with the Aggression at 9:00, Sensitivity at around 8:30-9:00, Gain at 9:00-10:00 and Level wide open. When I went down to Cleveland to drop off a couple of amps for upgrades and to pick up my CAZ, Doc was so cool. I took my Explorer and my Les Paul Custom and plugged them in. He really questioned me as to whether I wanted an amp that can be this heavy because he knows I'm not a head banging metal guy. He was totally more interested in fulfilling my needs than in selling an amplifier, and he made that plain. But I heard tones in there that I'd never heard in another amp and so #1 came home with me that day. Now I'm not a drop-D metal guy, and play mostly praise, blues, and classic rock stuff...so this amp certainly exceeds my needs in that arena. But, and this is a huge but, I can dial back the CAZ to get very much a tweed or brown face type clean tone from it. There is a little hair around the edges and I can't make it sound like a blackface, but considering how this amp will knock walls down it's amazing how clean I can get it. And I'm learning more about how the controls work and interact with themselves each day. I love the way it responds to my guitar's controls. I just don't need a drive pedal. I can pull back on the guitar volume and get good, very usable rhythm tones. When it's time for a solo, just hit the volume with your pinky and you are rockin'. At first I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to use the CAZ at church...in my mind it was a rock and roll beast amp. But the more I play it the more I appreciate how really usable it is. It will clean up nice for Aunt Nancy, but it's like having a pedal board full of overdrives and distortion pedals all together on the front panel of your amp. Thanks for this post Dave. It is a shame that more folks don't realize the incredible flexibility and extreme range of tones of this design. I believe in time they will , and once we are back to live performances the usefulness of the CAZ will shine. Z
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Post by Russell B on Jan 27, 2021 7:27:06 GMT -7
I would like to add to this and I'll use a few songs as a reference. Before I do that, let me show the base settings. I'll start from the left because I've pretty much just change three settings (controls). Level: to room; Presence: a little past 2:00; Aggression: 2:00; Bass: a touch past 10:00; Mids: Noon; Treble: about 2:00. I change the Gain and Sensitivity to the songs. I may increase the Level on the lower gain settings depending on what's going on. By the way, I run a Tremolo, a Chorus, and two delays in the loop. That loop really makes the effect feel like they are part of the amp.
Examples:
1. My rock band plays Tom Petty's "Listen to her Heart". As you all know, that tune isn't high gain. I use a Les Paul on that song. I dial both the Gain and Sensitivity back to 10:00. 2. We play "Long Cool Woman (in a black dress). I use a Strat and dial the Gain to 9:00 and the Sensitivity to 10:00. It's pretty clean and a delay in the loop. 3. We play Candle Box's "Far Behind". I use both pickups on my Les Paul for different parts of the song. Regardless, Gain and Sensitivity are both as 2:00. The Bridge Pickup is all the way up for that gain that song has, and the Neck pick is dialed back to get that cleanish verse riff. I have a delay in the loop. 4. "I Shook you all Night Long", "Mary Jane's Last Dance", Hysteria (middle pickup on a Super Strat for cleaner tones), Audio Slave's "Like a Stone" have the Gain and Sensitivity around noon. 5. I set the Gain and Sensitivity to around 11:00 for "867-5309" and "Everybody Wants You". 6: If you dial back the Gain and Sensitivity both back to 9:00 and use a Strat, you can get some great just breaking up blues tones, which we will eventually use.
I'm still tweaking, but you can see that there's a lot of variety in this amp.
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Post by DRZ on Jan 27, 2021 8:31:55 GMT -7
Check out this latest release from Adam.
Z
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 9:40:34 GMT -7
I have to say I understand streamlining things with the Z Best cabinet, but it would be awesome if it could had in a configuration like this picture with a vertical 2x12. I think this is the general aesthetic most high gain players go for. I guess you can always get the head only and get yourself your own custom cabinet.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Jan 27, 2021 10:06:55 GMT -7
You do realize that the Z-Best can be run either horizontally or vertically? You may need to change your setting but it will work.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 10:12:13 GMT -7
Yes, but isn't there overhang on both sides? That looks even worse.
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Post by KeithA on Jan 27, 2021 10:40:40 GMT -7
Yes, but isn't there overhang on both sides? That looks even worse. You beat me to it That's why I've said in the past that if ever needed a 212 to go with the CAZ it would be the Backline 212.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 10:50:45 GMT -7
Yes, but isn't there overhang on both sides? That looks even worse. You beat me to it That's why I've said in the past that if ever needed a 212 to go with the CAZ it would be the Backline 212. Guitar players are a weird bunch in general and I've found the high gain guys are even weirder. It's all about stacks and tall cabinets. I'm not shocked the horizontal cabinet option isn't lighting things up. The Z Best with a standard Z head looks great, with this not so much. I mean the head looks almost as big as the cabinet.
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Post by DRZ on Jan 27, 2021 11:08:33 GMT -7
You beat me to it That's why I've said in the past that if ever needed a 212 to go with the CAZ it would be the Backline 212. Guitar players are a weird bunch in general and I've found the high gain guys are even weirder. It's all about stacks and tall cabinets. I'm not shocked the horizontal cabinet option isn't lighting things up. The Z Best with a standard Z head looks great, with this not so much. I mean the head looks almost as big as the cabinet. Well lets not play it , lets just look at it, yeah that's the ticket.
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Post by frankie on Jan 27, 2021 11:10:50 GMT -7
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Post by KeithA on Jan 27, 2021 11:11:41 GMT -7
You beat me to it That's why I've said in the past that if ever needed a 212 to go with the CAZ it would be the Backline 212. Guitar players are a weird bunch in general and I've found the high gain guys are even weirder. It's all about stacks and tall cabinets. I'm not shocked the horizontal cabinet option isn't lighting things up. The Z Best with a standard Z head looks great, with this not so much. I mean the head looks almost as big as the cabinet. Lol, I'm one of those high gain guys and I like the 1/2 stack look But it's funny, when I bought my Bogner head over a year ago I ended up buying the matching over-sized cab because it just looked great (even though I already had a 412 cab I was intending to use). p.s. It's o/k that I posted a picture of the Bogner....the Z's are well represented in this pic, too
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Post by KeithA on Jan 27, 2021 11:14:35 GMT -7
I think the Z-Best/head combo looks best of all of the other variants in these pictures. It's more of an over-sized 212 than most of the others. The Orange 212 coming closet to the Z-Best
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 11:34:39 GMT -7
Looks like I poked the bear. LOL But this goes to show me that the total package wasn't fully thought out with the high gain player in mind. I agree aesthetics are usually silly and I'd never not buy an amp because of the color or whatever but to pretend like they don't matter is missing the point.
Those pictures all look like people that play in their house. The whole point of a vertical 2x12 in a live setting is to put the bassier speaker on the bottom for th ethump, and the speaker with more high end or mid range content at the top for the player to hear.
If you play in a high gain live environment, a horizontal closed back cabinet is a nightmare to work with. Stage volume is just too loud. That's doubly magnified using a cabinet that has a long throw like the Z Best. You need good monitors and let's be honest those aren't necessarily available in places that have a lot of high gain bands these days.
I just saw the backline cabinet that Z offers. Offer two options, one with the Z Best and one with that and see which one sells better. I guarantee the backline would outsell the Z Best by at least double.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Jan 27, 2021 11:36:28 GMT -7
Additionally, the Z Best will sound better with the ported side along the floor. Better bass response.
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Post by DRZ on Jan 27, 2021 11:39:49 GMT -7
Looks like I poked the bear. LOL But this goes to show me that the total package wasn't fully thought out with the high gain player in mind. Poke me twice ....
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Post by frankie on Jan 27, 2021 11:45:35 GMT -7
Looks like I poked the bear. LOL But this goes to show me that the total package wasn't fully thought out with the high gain player in mind. I agree aesthetics are usually silly and I'd never not buy an amp because of the color or whatever but to pretend like they don't matter is missing the point. Those pictures all look like people that play in their house. The whole point of a vertical 2x12 in a live setting is to put the bassier speaker on the bottom for th ethump, and the speaker with more high end or mid range content at the top for the player to hear. If you play in a high gain live environment, a horizontal closed back cabinet is a nightmare to work with. Stage volume is just too loud. That's doubly magnified using a cabinet that has a long throw like the Z Best. You need good monitors and let's be honest those aren't necessarily available in places that have a lot of high gain bands these days. I just saw the backline cabinet that Z offers. Offer two options, one with the Z Best and one with that and see which one sells better. I guarantee the backline would outsell the Z Best by at least double. Making a lot of assumptions here. Please don't assume "the total package wasn't fully thought out with the high gain player in mind." It's insulting to the amount of work that was put into this amp. There was a full year of development, and at one point in March, there were 7 different hi-gain amps in house that were used as comparisons to the CAZ and 3 different cabinets and we loaded a half a dozen different speaker combinations to come up with the final configuration. Also, don't assume that anyone can't order the the backline 212 and load it with whatever their heart's content. The backline 212 is an option. No one said it wasn't. You can have it grilled to match the CAZ or whatever color scheme you please and load it with literally any combination of speakers we offer. If you prefer the backline, good for you. The general consensus here is that the backline was too focused in the mids and not thumpy enough. But to each their own. Please, I would love for you to be our guest and order a backline with a Salt and Pepper grill and a CAZ to match and report back about how much better it is. I'm being serious. If that's the combination for you, then it would make us more than pleased that you ventured out and found what worked the best. But it's all conjecture until you've actually played one.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 11:53:35 GMT -7
Maybe our definitions of high gain are different? This is the type of stuff I'm talking about.
I did not know the backline was even available until this thread so consider me a low informed poster in that regard. For the record I think the head is a fantastic design in form and function.
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Post by frankie on Jan 27, 2021 12:06:14 GMT -7
Maybe our definitions of high gain are different? This is the type of stuff I'm talking about. I did not know the backline was even available until this thread so consider me a low informed poster in that regard. For the record I think the head is a fantastic design in form and function. Give it a shot then! You'll find that it can easily pile on that much gain. You really don't know it's capabilities till you have tried it. And also, for your info, any dealer can order the CAZ in any grill cloth variant that is available. You can black it out, add a tan grill a'la some of Alan's amps, whatever cloth and piping we have available to suit your aesthetic preference.
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Post by KeithA on Jan 27, 2021 12:27:56 GMT -7
Maybe our definitions of high gain are different? This is the type of stuff I'm talking about. I did not know the backline was even available until this thread so consider me a low informed poster in that regard. For the record I think the head is a fantastic design in form and function. Lol, maybe I'm not a high-gain guy !
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Post by notscottagain on Jan 27, 2021 12:39:55 GMT -7
Back to the OP's original intent, I haven't found any Blackface cleans inside my CAZ but by setting up the amount of gain I want for leads with my guitar wide open and then using my guitar volumes and/or a volume pedal to clean up, I can go from slightly breaking up cleans to 80s metal levels with ease. In a way, I think it may even be a disservice labeling this amp as "high-gain" as it's touch sensitivity and versatile controls allow better players to cop many different tones and feels than just modern metal.
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Post by frankie on Jan 27, 2021 13:03:08 GMT -7
Back to the OP's original intent, I haven't found any Blackface cleans inside my CAZ but by setting up the amount of gain I want for leads with my guitar wide open and then using my guitar volumes and/or a volume pedal to clean up, I can go from slightly breaking up cleans to 80s metal levels with ease. In a way, I think it may even be a disservice labeling this amp as "high-gain" as it's touch sensitivity and versatile controls allow better players to cop many different tones and feels than just modern metal. I think this nails it on the head. This is an ALL-GAIN amplifier. What we have been battling is folks asking "how are the clean tones" to "that doesn't seem high gain enough." The fact is that the controls are designed in a way that you can get ALL SHADES of gain. If you notice in many of Adam's stellar clips, he has a considerable amount of gain in the 80s metal territory. What many should note is that he uses the aggression sparingly, before noon. Opening that control up with the gain and sensitivity higher, you are unleashing yet another gain stage. He's operating at about 50-60% max gain really.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 13:03:28 GMT -7
Maybe our definitions of high gain are different? This is the type of stuff I'm talking about. I did not know the backline was even available until this thread so consider me a low informed poster in that regard. For the record I think the head is a fantastic design in form and function. Lol, maybe I'm not a high-gain guy ! I realized this after I posted. If we're talking Van Halen and 80's hair metal, I don't consider that high gain. It's just rock. Even what I posted isn't considered high gain by the kids these days, even though that's about as heavy as I'll go.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 13:11:53 GMT -7
Looks like I poked the bear. LOL But this goes to show me that the total package wasn't fully thought out with the high gain player in mind. I agree aesthetics are usually silly and I'd never not buy an amp because of the color or whatever but to pretend like they don't matter is missing the point. Those pictures all look like people that play in their house. The whole point of a vertical 2x12 in a live setting is to put the bassier speaker on the bottom for th ethump, and the speaker with more high end or mid range content at the top for the player to hear. If you play in a high gain live environment, a horizontal closed back cabinet is a nightmare to work with. Stage volume is just too loud. That's doubly magnified using a cabinet that has a long throw like the Z Best. You need good monitors and let's be honest those aren't necessarily available in places that have a lot of high gain bands these days. I just saw the backline cabinet that Z offers. Offer two options, one with the Z Best and one with that and see which one sells better. I guarantee the backline would outsell the Z Best by at least double. The general consensus here is that the backline was too focused in the mids and not thumpy enough. I won't derail this thread any more, but that sounds like a problem a Classic Lead 80 on the bottom and a V30 up top could fix. hell even two CL80's would work if you needed a lot of thump.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jan 27, 2021 13:41:01 GMT -7
The general consensus here is that the backline was too focused in the mids and not thumpy enough. I won't derail this thread any more, but that sounds like a problem a Classic Lead 80 on the bottom and a V30 up top could fix. hell even two CL80's would work if you needed a lot of thump. Well, it's sure a relief that you're here now to educate the rest of us. It's great.
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Post by djcakadave on Jan 27, 2021 13:55:55 GMT -7
Well due to some financial burdens I had mine listed on Reverb! I read Premiumplus (Dave) and Russel B's settings this morning and tried a few! I quickly ran over to Reverb and took down my listing Whew...dodged another bullet I did....
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jan 27, 2021 13:58:33 GMT -7
Well due to some financial burdens I had mine listed on Reverb! I read Premiumplus (Dave) and Russel B's settings this morning and tried a few! I quickly ran over to Reverb and took down my listing Whew...dodged another bullet I did.... That's great news...It's amazing what you can do with this amp.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Jan 27, 2021 14:32:51 GMT -7
Maybe our definitions of high gain are different? This is the type of stuff I'm talking about. I did not know the backline was even available until this thread so consider me a low informed poster in that regard. For the record I think the head is a fantastic design in form and function. I think we missed the point regarding ascetics the hifiman was trying to make. After watching the video he is clearly looking for the high gain amp that best matches a burnt out forest. However, the hard working men at the Mothership are completely right, don’t knock it until you’ve taken it to your burnt out high gain setting forest and actually played the dang thing.
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