|
Post by Tommy Boy on Apr 11, 2006 10:21:01 GMT -7
I am thinking about buying a Maz 18 jr NR 1 x 18 or 2 x 10 but I am just starting to learn about the various aspects of amps. What does it mean when one says "The NRs come with a basic effects loop" does this mean that if I want to add a pedal or digital guitar modulation system that I can plug it into the front of the amp and the signal, before it is sent to the speaker, is "looped" through these systems and therefore modified? I guess am not sure what a basic effects loop is.
|
|
|
Post by sascha on Apr 11, 2006 10:57:00 GMT -7
"Basic effects loop" means: it's a simple, serial loop. Thinks of it as an output jack after the MAZ preamp section (the send) and an input jack to the MAZ power amp section (the return). You don't have any knobs to adjust send and return levels, so you might run into problems with some devices that can't handle hot signals (especially stomp boxes). And, other than in a serial loop you don't have a mix knob here. All signal is routed through the loop. So if you put a digital effect in here, all your signal will be converted to digital and back, and that will probably suck tone. There are external devices that can convert a serial loop into a parallel one, like the Xotic X-blender ( www.prosoundcommunications.com/english/xotic/effects/x_blender/ - not available yet). Any small high quality analogue line mixer with aux bus will do that job, too. A parallel loop will leave your dry signal intact and only the wet signal will pass through the fx devices. You might want to read this article, too: www.amptone.com/g182.htmSascha
|
|
|
Post by Tommy Boy on Apr 11, 2006 11:23:40 GMT -7
Sascha, Thanks. I read the article you suggested and poked around little more on the web-site. This guy thinks that adding a digital modulator only sucks tone if you want it to... www.amptone.com/g092.htmWhat do you think? Is there a multi-effect stop box that you would suggest? Thanks, Tom
|
|
|
Post by Tommy Boy on Apr 11, 2006 11:28:30 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by John on Apr 11, 2006 11:52:37 GMT -7
I have a 15 year old Zoom multi-effects box that I put in my MAZ Jr. Effects loop. It's a great piece of gear. No, it's not recording studio quality, but for live gigs, no one will know the difference. Heck for that matter, no one will know the difference unless your a recording engineer. Great for gigs (I think it's a 2020 model.)
It's got Overdrive, EQ, Chorus/Flange, delay, reverb.
With the loop being AFTER the preamp, I don't use the overdrive at all. I have a stomp box inbetween the amp & guitar.
They don't make 'em anymore. But I would check out one of the Digitech models out there. Oh, I see there is a string to the GNX4....I'm in a hurry right now and I don't have time to check it out. But I think you're on the right track.
Keep in mind, I HIGHLY recommend NOT using the overdrive in an effects loop, but putting an overdrive pedal before the amp.
|
|
|
Post by Tommy Boy on Apr 11, 2006 17:31:41 GMT -7
Wow, I am learning a lot.
Thanks...but does something like the Digitech go between the guitar and the amp or in the effect loop?
Thanks,
Tom
|
|
|
Post by John on Apr 12, 2006 9:23:19 GMT -7
Yes, I would put a Digitech multi effects unit in the loop. But in addition, get a nice overdrive pedal and put that inbetween the guitar and amp.
Using distortion/overdrive in the effects loop sounds like crap to me.
|
|
|
Post by garyh on Apr 12, 2006 10:05:30 GMT -7
I used my loop on my Maz for quite awhile before noticing how much anything I put in there sucked tone big time; multi-effects unit, chorus, reverb and delay units. All noise disappears but the tone really softens up, doesn't really sound bad but kills the natural lively twang of the amp. Try both in and out of the loop is my advice. Compare and make your choice.
|
|
|
Post by Tommy Boy on Apr 12, 2006 20:23:32 GMT -7
While we are on the topic...
Are there any sites that explain the different effects out there and what they do? For a novice like me the choices seem are a little dizzying (Overdrive, EQ, reverb, phase, distortion, pedals, stomp boxes, digital modulation, etc.). For example, I am not clear on what an overdrive pedal would do and why one would use one. Is it to boost the signal and saturate the tube at a lower volume?
At the risk of asking two questions in one thread...is there a site that reviews guitar gear, sort of the Consumer Reports of guitar gear?
Cheers,
Tom
|
|
|
Post by John on Apr 13, 2006 5:21:30 GMT -7
I've seen your various posts over the past week, it sounds like your a real beginner. (no offense) You need to go to a Sam Ash or Guitar Center and have one of the goobers who works there run you though the various options. Trying to explain it here is like trying to do surgery over the phone. Having someone explain these things in person will be SO much faster and efficient. If you want to read reviews, go to www.harmony-central.comThen click on user reviews, then click on effects...then you're on your own.
|
|
a42
Full Member
Posts: 130
|
Post by a42 on Apr 13, 2006 8:51:21 GMT -7
If you want to read reviews, go to www.harmony-central.comThen click on user reviews, then click on effects...then you're on your own. Good advice, but you have to understand a couple things about Harmony Central: 1) Anyone can write a review. Take everythng you read there with a large dose of salt. 2) There's a common phenomenon on H-C and other review places. I've been guilty of it myself. You'll get a new piece of gear and be totally in love with it and write a wonderful glowing review. Then the honeymoon period wears off and, well, she ...umm, it... ain't all you thought. Watch out for those sorts of reviews. 3) Even the best piece of gear will have detractors. Could be a matter of personal taste, could be somebody got a lemon. Sometime it's just somebody who want to pee on the parade. I guess what I'm saying is that H-C is a good resource, but you should treat it as you would any other unsolicited opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Tommy Boy on Apr 13, 2006 9:51:20 GMT -7
Gtrman3,
Thanks for the advice. No offense taken.
You are correct, I am obviously a newbie. I have been playing acoustic for some time and I am going to purchase an electric some time this year (probably a PRS - again, opinions welcome : ). It is in my personality to be fairly anal with stuff like this and I don't believe in buying crap. Obviously, if I had been playing an electric for a while I would be able to answer some of these questions myself. The quandary is that I don't want to buy junk (and don't mind spending the money) but I need to pick a few peoples brains that have the experience that will make sure I don't plop a lot of money down on something that I will, once I get past the newbie stage, wish I would have got something different.
Your point is well taken though, I am heading to Guitar Center next week to play a few different PRS pick-ups and will also spend some time listening to a few amps (no Z's there though) and get the run down on some effects.
To be honest though I have learned a lot from this board in the last few days. I get the feeling that the conversation moved me along the experience curve much faster than if I would have had to make the mistakes myself and for that I thank you.
I would be nice if there was a Newbie section the the board where more junior folks could answer questions. I have done my best to stay way away from the "Ask the experts board" and since I will most likely be buying a 18jr if I go Z, I am here...
Cheers,
Tom, aka Newbie
|
|
|
Post by John on Apr 13, 2006 10:36:46 GMT -7
Tom, aka Newbie
Yeow!!! A Paul Reed Smith and a Dr. Z on your first jump into electric playing. $$$$$$$$$$$$
Here would be some additional pieces of advice....from someone who's been through the gear mill.
I think you may be making a mistake jumping in the electric pool (cool band name) with a PRS and a Dr. Z. These are both TOP quality and Top expense pieces of gear. However, the problem is this: A PRS and a MAZ Jr may not be to your liking after a while. Be it either, type of music, or tone, or a bunch of other subjects. You could end up being unhappy with VERY expensive gear.
There are LOTS of good quality guitars and amps that are MUCH less in cost. You could get your feet wet with these pieces of gear, find out what you like and don't like, then later- go out and purchase high end gear that fits the style/type your looking for. These are NOT crappy instruments.
As a newbie, you will probably not be able to tell the diffence in quality and playing ability of these instruments.
Also, I agree with a42, any dork can make a review on Harmony-Central, so don't take it as gospel. They may not know how to use the gear, it may not be right for their music. They may just be a dumb-arse.
Also, have the Sam Ash/Guitar center people give you the basic education about gear you're interested in, then you can come back in here and ask detailed questions. That will save you time and effort.
|
|
|
Post by cacibi on Apr 20, 2006 7:46:48 GMT -7
tgm - just throwing in my 2 cents here -
I agree with a lot of the things said previously here and along with forums like this one (there are soooooo many out there), subcriptions to a few guitar magazines (Vintage and Guitar Player are my preferreds) can be very helpful with the learning curve. It's a whole new ballgame going electric isn't it? There are two tons of things to learn and consider because now your signal chain has gotten exponentially more complicated. From your guitar (including which strings, pickups and how it is wired) to the cord (yes.....believe it or not, people do obsess about their instrument cables) to your effects (the cords for the effects, the power for your effects), to the amp (including tubes, speakers) to the mic in front of your amp when you're onstage or recording, and maybe even the mic pre you're using in the studio. It's one humongous signal chain and you will learn to obsess about every stage and step eventually and in good time. But for now HAVE FUN! I agree that the amp and guitar you buy now will very likely not be the amp and guitar you are playing five years from now. As your ear gets better at recognizing tonal differences or inconsistencies - you'll see the shortcomings of your gear. So I also think that a cheaper amp and guitar may be the best way to go for your first purchase - money may not be an object for you however, in which case I say - dive in! I have sold some very expensive and great pieces of gear not because they lacked anything - but they just weren't right for my sound. My final piece of advice would be to NOT rely on sales staff at places like GC or SamAsh to help you along. They have a definite agenda most of the time and are very lacking in knowledge the rest of the time. If you have a locally owned and operated shop you can establish a relationship with - I would start there. I've been buying things so long at my local vintage shop that I know I will get a 'good customer' deal if it's possible and also can demo and or return gear. And they will be frank with me about gear I'm interested in.
Good luck!
|
|
|
Post by Tommy Boy on Apr 20, 2006 19:59:43 GMT -7
Cacibi,
Thanks for the response. I am trying to absorb as much as I can. Last night spent some time at GC last night playing a few different PRS pick-ups (Dragon II and McCarty). I am leaning toward the PRS McCarty but am going to think about it long and hard as the general opinion on this board seems to go small (e.g. lower cost at first). Furthermore, I have heard some negative press around PRS pick-ups on this board so I am sensitive to that as well.
Sorry...I digressed from the topic of this particular sub-board...back to the 18jr.
As far as amps, so far there are three that are in the running (again, if I don't go lower cost): Bad Cat Cub II 1x12; Maz 18jr 1x12 NR; and Lone Star Special 1x12. Right now I am leaning toward the Z but there is not a dealer locally and I realize I need to play it (duh) before I buy it. I was the newbie that posted the thread entitled Lone Star verses Maz 18jr and looks like that thread got some traction. My take home from that thread was that both the Z and LSS are good amps. As to why I like the Z, my simple "take" is that the Z is a very pure amp and if I want to add effects I can always do so. This purity is something that is attractive to me...no wasted dollars in different modulations, lines, etc., just a very high quality amp, taking a signal and amplifying it cleanly. Sounds like a great cornerstone to build around, a centerpiece if you will, and this is something I am looking for.
Thanks again for your thoughtful response.
Regards,
Tom
|
|
|
Post by RC on Apr 21, 2006 20:05:13 GMT -7
While we are on the topic... [Are there any sites that explain the different effects out there and what they do? For a novice like me the choices seem are a little dizzying (Overdrive, EQ, reverb, phase, distortion, pedals, stomp boxes, digital modulation, etc.). For example, I am not clear on what an overdrive pedal would do and why one would use one. Is it to boost the signal and saturate the tube at a lower volume?] At the risk of asking two questions in one thread...is there a site that reviews guitar gear, sort of the Consumer Reports of guitar gear? Cheers, Tom Tom- As far as getting a basic idea of what the different effects are and kind of how they sound the Boss web site has a virtual pedal board that you can mix and match deferent effects on. It would at least make it easy for you to get an idea of what kind of sounds go with what effects. I personally don't care for Boss pedals but there site is really quite good. I also take a different approach to buying gear than some others. I've found it's cheaper in the long run to buy high end gear thats in demand because if for some reason you don't like it or just want a change you will almost always be able to sell it with very little depreciation if any. Their is always a lot of demand for good high quality gear. I think your on the right track with a Z amp I just ordered a Maz JR to go with my Ghia. These amps are about as good as it gets. IMHO
|
|
|
Post by Tommy Boy on Apr 22, 2006 12:23:27 GMT -7
RC,
Thanks a lot RC. I will spend some time at the Boss site. This is exactly the pointer I was looking for.
I am also in agreement with you (I have learned this about myself over the many years) that, again at least with me, that I like to buy a higher quality gear and keep it. I find that with life many reasons (family, budget, work) keep me from actually upgrading/trading/selling. Sounds good in theory but never actually happens. I have a lot of nice gear that I paid a little more than I wanted for but I still have it and as to the other stuff...well I am not sure what happened to it but I know a lot of it has passed through.
Thanks again,
Newbie
|
|