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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 4, 2021 10:11:57 GMT -7
UPDATES ON VIDEO DOWN NEAR BOTTOM OF PAGE : ztalk.proboards.com/thread/85343/instant-weather-checking-guitar-purpose Here's the original post I've spoken to a number of techs and shops who build guitars . Nobody has ever seen a neck check to this degree. A few place that Relic Guitars said they'd tried to check the bodies of this poly based Fender with no luck . One guy said my guitar must have been contaminated . Since the poly undercoat seems to have stayed in take over all. After this happened everywhere that my body or hands had previously touched started flaking on the Body and Neck both . When I'd play I had Gold paint all over my clothes and nitro pieces on my fingers . It was Terrible . My fingers could feel what felt like bumps and holes on the board. After alot of reading and nothing to lose with an unplayable guitar. I decided to tape the body up with Duck Tape . Then rip it off . Naturally all the areas where the paint was flaking off CAME OFF. On the neck I used Lacquer Thinner on the neck . One fret at a time. I wiped it on generously . Let it set for 15 seconds . Then used a quick swipe of a razorblade. This process bunched the removed lacquer at each fret . I did the whole fret board to the 17th position. Once it dried I removed the bunched up lacquer. This was a long drawn out process. Each time it felt like I'd solved the neck issue . So I'd wet sand , polish frets etc etc. I did a similar process on the back. Only used a metal radius gauge I'd filed a sharp edge on. Each time I'd put the guitar back together and play it for a few weeks . Eventually it would start flaking on the neck . The Body issue was solved with one duck tape session . The neck to repeating the process 11 times . I suppose I could have just stripped the neck and resprayed it. I chose not to because I wanted to retain the weather checking on the neck headstock and parts of the neck my hands had not touched . Kinda odd how the finish was only effected where my body oils must have altered it somehow. Since I was kinda forced to age this thing . I decided while it was apart to age the plastic and metal parts . If anyone wants to know what I did just ask. I must have 50 pictures of different stages of the process. I worked on it and played it over the last 5 months . At the stage it's currently at it feels like an old guitar. I plan to keep playing it and maybe do a few more things . Here's just a few pictures that show the full guitar . I have many closeups but don't want to clutter up the Thread . You get the general idea .
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 4, 2021 10:13:06 GMT -7
Enlarge pictures to see the detail better
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Jan 4, 2021 10:24:31 GMT -7
So it sounds like you gave it a good bikini wax 😳
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 4, 2021 10:33:57 GMT -7
So it sounds like you gave it a good bikini wax 😳 Alot of work . There were stages where I thought about just stripping it all down. Problem is whatever base coat is used won't come off . Even tried acetone where the big chips were . I would never have considered this had it not checked on it's own so completely . The pictures don't show how much this whole thing is weather etched . It does play better and it's more acoustic Plus they must have 20 coats on the neck SEROUSLY
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Jan 5, 2021 13:34:19 GMT -7
I don't imagine with all the time you have in it that you want to sink any money into it, but if you can't get the neck to your liking I wonder if someone like MJT who does relic work might be able to finish it up for you. I don't know that they relic poly stuff, or finishes that they didn't put on to start, but it might be an option.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Jan 5, 2021 15:35:59 GMT -7
I think it looks great! Very Custom Shop-like.
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Post by lowbudget on Jan 5, 2021 19:32:26 GMT -7
I think it looks great! Very Custom Shop-like. I totally agree!
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Post by detuned on Jan 6, 2021 7:18:25 GMT -7
That gold finish looks fantastic, although I get why you'd be upset at first. Metallic finishes can be a bear - I have a CAR 62' Reissue strat that looks like an *actual* '62, but all I've ever done to it is play it. Well, there was that one time it fell out of the truck into the middle of the highway at 70mph... but that's another story.
The neck though... If it were me, I'd just sand it smooth from the nut down and lightly refinish, but that's me. I admire your commitment AND your skill!
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 6, 2021 7:37:23 GMT -7
That gold finish looks fantastic, although I get why you'd be upset at first. Metallic finishes can be a bear - I have a CAR 62' Reissue strat that looks like an *actual* '62, but all I've ever done to it is play it. Well, there was that one time it fell out of the truck into the middle of the highway at 70mph... but that's another story. The neck though... If it were me, I'd just sand it smooth from the nut down and lightly refinish, but that's me. I admire your commitment AND your skill! Ha Ha Ha Ha That's the exact thing that happened to me 25 years ago with My 52 re-issue Tele . I had a bedliner and forgot to close the tailgate . It was in one of those smaller Fender cases they made up until about 10 years ago. It went end over end several times and into the medium . Not a scratch on the guitar . I really lucked out . Sadly I sold that Tele because I could never bond with the heavy Nitro. It was before the relic idea gain such popularity.
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 6, 2021 7:38:44 GMT -7
I think it looks great! Very Custom Shop-like. Thanks I'm actually a Veteran Member here : Awhile back I lost my saved password. I had auto signed on for so many years I couldn't remember my password . Plus I had no access to the OLD AOL Email Acct I signed up with . Lefty was kind enough to Delete my old USER and let me Re-due a New Account with almost the same name : Only Draw back is I now appear as a Newbie
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Post by detuned on Jan 7, 2021 10:51:25 GMT -7
That gold finish looks fantastic, although I get why you'd be upset at first. Metallic finishes can be a bear - I have a CAR 62' Reissue strat that looks like an *actual* '62, but all I've ever done to it is play it. Well, there was that one time it fell out of the truck into the middle of the highway at 70mph... but that's another story. The neck though... If it were me, I'd just sand it smooth from the nut down and lightly refinish, but that's me. I admire your commitment AND your skill! Ha Ha Ha Ha That's the exact thing that happened to me 25 years ago with My 52 re-issue Tele . I had a bedliner and forgot to close the tailgate . It was in one of those smaller Fender cases they made up until about 10 years ago. It went end over end several times and into the medium . Not a scratch on the guitar . I really lucked out . Sadly I sold that Tele because I could never bond with the heavy Nitro. It was before the relic idea gain such popularity. That is almost exactly what happened to me. No idea how no one ran it over as we ran frantically back up the highway to retrieve my guitar. Being a strat, I had to retune it before gigging with it. I'm sure a tele would have still been in tune. :-)
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 7, 2021 14:54:16 GMT -7
A Quick Alteration
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Jan 7, 2021 16:42:50 GMT -7
Sand that neck down and use this:
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 8, 2021 7:18:06 GMT -7
Thanks : Do you mean the whole neck beyond where play occurs . Right now there's still a finish on it
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Post by Russell B on Jan 8, 2021 8:17:47 GMT -7
I had to sand the lacquer off the neck of one of my CS Teles. I refinished it with that Tru-Oil gun stock oil. It’s really a good product.
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 8, 2021 16:56:47 GMT -7
I had to sand the lacquer off the neck of one of my CS Teles. I refinished it with that Tru-Oil gun stock oil. It’s really a good product. Yep I've used it on Rifles Before . In my case the neck has a thin layer of Nitro still on it . That's why you see the different color shades .I'll play it awhile and see what happens . I have avoided sanding for the most part . Thanks again for the reply
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Jan 9, 2021 8:54:25 GMT -7
Much better looking back of the neck. Looks like play wear.
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 9, 2021 15:23:39 GMT -7
Much better looking back of the neck. Looks like play wear. Today I sanded it to make it slightly lighter . After looking at countless examples from Fender and having played 2 Master Built Telecasters. I determined that they strip the wood bare . Then respray 1 maybe 2 very light one pass coats on the back . Wait a few days and wet sand it. One thing nice about nitro . If you don't go crazy you can blend it into the existing finish on a neck with a little careful effort. The hope is getting a look that doesn't end quite so abruptly . Giving it even more of a natural play wear look. I was at Bill crooks several years ago. He had some necks he was refretting of 2 pretty worn guitars. Not Brad's, just local players . The fretboards were down to bare wood in spots . But both examples he was working on still had finish the back where playing occurs. Even though you could see obvious wear. Plus it wasn't perfectly solid wear all the way down the neck. Some spots had more finish then others. The necks were from different players . The wear didn't match at all. Why would it ? One of the necks on the back actually looked more glossy from playing then the areas that never get playing I couldn't find anywhere online that Fender explains how they do relic necks . Bare wood doesn't shine . Darkening the neck with a solution of steel wool soaked in Vinegar is technically putting rust on the wood . Giving it that aged look . So here's to hoping 2 really thin coats gets me the finished look I'm after . If not acetone takes it off fast. I already did one coat and waiting to do another in a few hours . Spraying outside in 35 Degree weather makes for slower drying . I just checked it after 3 hours . It's dry enough to put one more coat on it . Then I'll bring it inside and let it cure a few days . Instructions say 2 weeks . But that is based on spraying several coats , That curing also applies more to fully finished bodies . So far it looks good . You can see a slight shine but really can't feel the finish. Feels smooth as it did before spraying. I could actually play it now. Butttt patience to wait a few days assures what I am trying to accomplish . I'll post final results sometime next week for anyone curious how this idea works out . I have nothing to lose at this point but time Thanks for Reading
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Post by JeffG on Jan 14, 2021 12:32:34 GMT -7
I'm really impressed with your dedication and determination! I have to imagine that once it's done (to your satisfaction), it might be one of your most rewarding guitars to play because of all the work you've put into it. Good luck!
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 15, 2021 7:36:44 GMT -7
I'm really impressed with your dedication and determination! I have to imagine that once it's done (to your satisfaction), it might be one of your most rewarding guitars to play because of all the work you've put into it. Good luck! Thanks I'm trying . I am in the process of spraying some really thin coats of Satan lacquer on the back of neck. Bare wood feels great . Problem is that's not real world . Nobody wears all the finish off the back. It's mainly staining that occurs from your hand sweat and dirt being ground into the finish over years of playing. I've discovered 2 things . Lacquer spraying , at least for necks . Works great in extremely cold dry winter weather . It also doesn't seem to effect drying time. I actually think it's easier to work with in dry cold weather then in warn humid weather . The other is getting an aged look to wood. There were several ideas for aging wood online. Most were either rubbing dirt or stain, or shoe polish into the wood. The best idea I found that actually works. Is taking steel wool torn up and soaking it in Vinegar for 2-3 days or longer. Then wiping it on the bare wood. The Problem is I discovered Vinegar doesn't dissolve the steel wool. It rusts it . So the aging look is actually wiping a rusty solution on the wood . While it looks good it transfers the rust off the back that gets on your hands to the fretboard . So your strings get dirty very fast. Which just doesn't cut it. Plus it seems to keep rusting . Which makes the wood turn a blackish color. Way to dark . I experimented and discovered. After aging the wood's look. Then sparingly wiping household bleach followed up with clean vinegar on the wood . Wiping it dry after 60 seconds . Removes the rust and leaves you with a subtle aged look to the wood. Once bare the wood on the back of neck has facial flaws . Which shows up with only a few thin coats of lacquer on it. If I keep adding coats it would disappear. But that would defeat the purpose When using bleach I did this fast because I didn't want to get the wood soaked . Especially with stinky bleach. After letting it dry out a day to be safe . I was sprayed the neck with 2 really thin coats of Satin Nitro. Which blended into the gloss perfectly . Spray instructions say not to polish or buff for 10 days -2 weeks . After drying 24 hours I am successfully playing it . So we'll see what it looks like after 2 weeks of said playing. After a day the feel is still very smooth and easy to slide on the finish. It definitely solved the dirty strings issue as well . It's been a learning experience. Especially doing this over a neck that doesn't have a vintage orange or what is called Amber tint on it. Harder to make a clear finish look old . I'm impressed with how easy it appears to get a professional finish with Rattle Cans of Lacquer. DISCLAIMER: Ventilation and at least a 95 dust mask required. The masks we are wearing for COVID 19 were worthless. I noticed right away I had no protection from the fumes.
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Post by lowbudget on Jan 15, 2021 8:33:54 GMT -7
You’ve probably seen a similar look on the back of necks on all Nash guitars. In talking to Bill about something else, it came up in conversation that all they do is sand the neck and hit it with some black Kiwi paste shoe polish. He said if you don’t like the darker look they put on them just steel wool it down a little (or scotchbrite it) and leave off the shoe polish.
Shockingly simple I thought.
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 16, 2021 7:44:59 GMT -7
You’ve probably seen a similar look on the back of necks on all Nash guitars. In talking to Bill about something else, it came up in conversation that all they do is sand the neck and hit it with some black Kiwi paste shoe polish. He said if you don’t like the darker look they put on them just steel wool it down a little (or scotchbrite it) and leave off the shoe polish. Shockingly simple I thought. Yes I have heard that . I know when Fender does a Relic they start with a New guitar body and neck . I'm close to posting my finished (at least for now look) It has changed from the pictures above < Stay Tuned if you wish
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Jan 16, 2021 8:02:43 GMT -7
I'm really impressed with your dedication and determination! I have to imagine that once it's done (to your satisfaction), it might be one of your most rewarding guitars to play because of all the work you've put into it. Good luck! +1000
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Jan 16, 2021 8:08:27 GMT -7
This has to be (for me anyway) the best thread I’ve read in awhile. Looking forward the more pictures when you can.
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 23, 2021 9:42:30 GMT -7
I did spray the neck with 2 really thin coats of Nitro . If anyone wants to relic a nitro neck . Don't use the Steel wool soaked in Vinegar. It just puts rust on your neck and or body where there's bare wood.
I spent several hours removing that from my neck .
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Post by rickenbacker1953 on Jan 23, 2021 9:58:28 GMT -7
This Video is same guitar taken slightly different is all : Picture of neck after cleaning gray off .Prior to spraying SORRY FOR TV NOISE (DIDN"T KNOW HOW TO DELETE THAT PART )
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