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Post by dixiechicken on Oct 3, 2020 13:26:08 GMT -7
Dc here!
A couple of months ago I sprung for the Line Helix Stomp,
the attraction was havining a whole - somewhat decent rig at my beck and call when needed.
Some places in Barcelona I've been jamming in - has a very small stage, no backline - just a little small PA system with the possibility to go direct in. My thought was to use the "stomp" in those cases.
(of course this was all before the Corona restrictions put the lid on most activities )
two/three wekks ago I was rehearsing with my big band at home in Sweden - with the Helix Stop going into my Route66 - using my Warmouth Telecaster I noticed this...
1)
A fairly distinct loss of treble - the guitar cables used - 2 fairly long - but very quality.
2) It seemed like the volume loss - while rolling off the volume pot on the guitar came much quicker. Not as smooth as going direct in.
3) Las time we rehearsed - I used my PRS SE with humbuckers
and the two things above was NOT as noticeable - much more like going direct into the amp.
What would be your take on this - any ideas would be most welcome:
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by nmz on Oct 3, 2020 14:01:17 GMT -7
Check how you have it set up. There are differences for going direct into a PA as a total rig and using it as a stomp pedal.
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Post by dixiechicken on Oct 4, 2020 3:32:22 GMT -7
DC here!
Yes I know that.
Since my amps are Route66 + 2x10" cab - and a Z-Wreck combo Both singel channel amps and no effects loop I go straight into the front end of the amps.
I use only the digital effects like reverb, delay, choruses and compressor. No amp, cab and/or overdrive simulations.
I have a few "total rig setups" as well - for going straight "front of house" into the mixingboard.
I have not yet been able to find any tecnical specs on the inputs/outputs - as regards the levels sensitivity and impedances. There is none in the manual & I haven't found any online so far. That is really lame in my opinion.
The only thing in that regard - is in the global settings - where you can switch line or instrument levels. ( no numbers )
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Oct 4, 2020 4:26:07 GMT -7
The Stomp manual references an input “pad” setting - since the issue you have changes with humbuckers (higher output) vs single coils (lower output) I’d check this setting to see if that helps (that is, disable the pad or set it higher for the Tele).
From the manual: Input Settings HX Stomp has an impedance circuit on its Main L/R inputs that affects tone and feel by loading your guitar's pickups as they would by an effect pedal or amplifier. A lower value will typically result in some high frequency attenuation, lower gain, and an overall "softer" feel. A higher value provides full frequency response, higher gain, and an overall "tighter" feel.
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Post by dixiechicken on Oct 4, 2020 14:56:04 GMT -7
DC here! Thanx for the suggestion -I will try that in our rehearsal studio. How ever the Stomp itself does not reference anything about pads on the inputs. It does give you the oppotunity so change the levels on the inputs - from instrument levels to line levels.
This is in itself rather unclear because line levels are either - -10dBv aka 200-300 millivolts - called semi pro levels typically CD/DVD players - or - +4dBu aka 1.228 volts - called pro levels These different levels are also delivered via different impadances as well. I suppose it's possible that these two settings also changes the impedance levels at the Stomps inputs....?
Cheers. Dixiechicken
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Oct 4, 2020 18:07:34 GMT -7
DC - here’s the screen shot of the manual page discussing how to change the input impedance (p.18):
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Post by dixiechicken on Oct 5, 2020 12:39:34 GMT -7
DC here! Thannks for the info - I certainly missed that particular info bit. Just shows my fondness for reading manuals - "under pain of stoning" - lols
Just checked the various different impedances at the main inputs at home. I'll try them with my Telecaster - I don't recall how I wired it up. But I suspect I used 250kOhm pots - kind of the standard for "Teles".
Thanks again for the help - takce stay safe & have a great day! Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by dixiechicken on Oct 7, 2020 2:33:50 GMT -7
DC here!
Tried the various impedance settings on the master inputs of my Helix Stomp (just at home into my soundcard MOTU 828 MkII)
Tried with both my Warmoth Tele and my PRS Se - Not sure about this but it sounded like the Auto setting and the 1 MOhm setting sounded the same. Vill try this into my amps eventually and try to hear if there's a difference.
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by Norrin Radd on Oct 14, 2020 6:59:57 GMT -7
I don’t think it matters how high of quality of cables you might be using, the distance the signal has to travel is always going to be affected by the length of cable, regardless of cable quality. On the left TPS they did an experiment with buffers, And Mick was complaining about how he hated the high top end that buffers gave his signal. Dan told him that it had very little to do with the buffer but rather was caused the impedance of the signal going through that length of cable. So they then hooked up his Strat with a 6 inch patch cable directly into the input of the amp. All of the high end that Mick hated from “buffers” came right back because of the shortness of the cable.
It doesn’t matter how good your cables are, you are always going to lose top end over any distance. Question is, how much can you live with?
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Post by zpilot on Oct 14, 2020 20:19:11 GMT -7
Capacitance in the cable is what what kills your high frequencies. It varies from brand to brand. A 6' cable of one brand may have the same capacitance as a 20' cable of another brand. The biggest tone suck is the cable from your guitar to your first device with a buffer. Also a rule of thumb is that the input impedance of your device should be =>10x the output impedance of the device driving it.
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Post by dixiechicken on Oct 15, 2020 13:31:52 GMT -7
DC here!
Interesting comments guys and thanks for the imput. However I dont quite agree - I rarely do
I would rather take the the view that everything matters - no chain is better than the weakest link. The trick is to identify the weakest link. One of the cables I mentioned is the "HG Lyric" from Evidence audio, That is hands down the best guitarcable money can buy. (period)
In my case as a tip from another forum fellow - I experimented with chaging the impedance values on my HX Stomp inputs - and found out that the "auto" setting on the impedance value input settings
is very closely similar to the 1 MOhm setting on the inputs.
I.E you you can leave the input impedance settings just like they are from the factory settings. That will work pretty good for most occasions.
This has led me to another observation ok: All my electric guitars except for my Warmoth Telecaster - have humbuckers - or P90 - stack humbuckers with 500K audio taper pots. My Telecaster Warmoth Telecaster have the Seymour Duncan tele vintage stacks and 250 kOhm pots.
What I noticed is - on my "Tele" the last quarter of the pot travel - is the area where I go from semidirty to clean sounds. However with the - "regular" - humbucker guitars like my PRS SE and my my Les Paul (1958 goldtop) with Seymour Duncan P90-stacks. I can use about half the total "pot-travel" to go from semi-clean sound up to pretty dirty - we're talking very much old school here.
My question is why is this difference? Has anybody here experienced something similar? What would be your advice. It's not exacltly a life shattering experience - lols - just a bit annying.
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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