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Post by Scumback Speakers on Jan 31, 2020 9:37:46 GMT -7
Here's the Official Scumback Speakers Questions & Information Thread!
I've done these on other forums for quick answers (or more detailed ones) to player's questions on Scumback models, etc.
So while it's slow right before Super Bowl, and after NAMM, NAMM-THRAX, etc. I figured now would be a good time to start a discussion thread about any questions you might have.
So hit me up and I'll do my best to answer your questions here, or you can get really detailed on my recommendation form.
Jim
sales@scumbackspeakers.com
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Post by steiner on Jan 31, 2020 9:48:56 GMT -7
I applaud you for visiting the belly of the beast! Any company that put themselves out in social media / forums deserves my attention. I'll be watching.
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Post by zpilot on Jan 31, 2020 10:04:45 GMT -7
I purchased a 65 watt M-75 about a year ago and am very happy with it.
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Jan 31, 2020 10:37:19 GMT -7
I applaud you for visiting the belly of the beast! Any company that put themselves out in social media / forums deserves my attention. I'll be watching. Hey, if you can't answer questions about what you make, you shouldn't be on the internet. I'll go into as much detail as I can without revealing trade secrets, techniques, etc. Most players really just want to know which speaker works best with their amp/guitar/pedalboard.
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Post by steiner on Jan 31, 2020 15:33:14 GMT -7
I applaud you for visiting the belly of the beast! Any company that put themselves out in social media / forums deserves my attention. I'll be watching. Hey, if you can't answer questions about what you make, you shouldn't be on the internet. I'll go into as much detail as I can without revealing trade secrets, techniques, etc. Most players really just want to know which speaker works best with their amp/guitar/pedalboard. I've been through the gamut of speakers, my experimental phase ended about the time you came on the scene. Congrats on your endurance!
I'll start. The Celestion creamback (alnico and ceramic) and rubyback have caught my eye. Have you comparable speakers?
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Jan 31, 2020 17:31:22 GMT -7
I've been through the gamut of speakers, my experimental phase ended about the time you came on the scene. Congrats on your endurance!
I'll start. The Celestion creamback (alnico and ceramic) and rubyback have caught my eye. Have you comparable speakers?
According to Rick Skillman of Celestion, the Creamback is Celestion's answer to the Scumback M75, H75 and Scumnico line of speakers. Apparently I pushed them to make new models with higher power ratings. So I really can't compare what they've done with those speakers as they're trying to compare to those speakers listed above. Believe me, I was as surprised as anyone when I heard that from a few amp makers, and asked Rick and he confirmed it.
As for the Ruby alnico, it's new, haven't heard one yet. Based on the specs it seems to be very similar to my S75-PVC 25w alnico.
As for what else compares to a Scumback speaker, I have a cross reference page on my site under the FAQ, along with wiring diagrams, how the Scumback name came to be, how to mount your speaker properly, what factory break in does and some other useful tidbits of information.
Hope that answers your questions.
Jim
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Post by steiner on Jan 31, 2020 19:41:57 GMT -7
Jim, kudos on the after-hours response. Dedication is a virtue. I own many Celestion, Emmenince, JBL, A Brown Soun and a few others that won't even make the list. Perhaps a direct replacement question is unfair, for I'd wager 1 to 1 comparison is subjective. I do like your answer and appreciate the direction. I'll check out your website for similar output stats.
I've read many good reviews of your speakers. Seeing your making yourself available to us immediately makes you far more valuable (to me) than the other manufactures. I appreciate your time and efforts!
There was a post here recently that discussed speaker efficiency between manufactures. Is there a standardized test for speaker efficiency? Does the specification leave the door open to interpretation? I'd assume that it's a straight-forward ratio of power out divided by power in measured at 1 meter.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Jan 31, 2020 19:52:04 GMT -7
Thanks for being here. It will be great to have your knowledge on top of other smart folks here. I’ve appreciated your responses on other threads already.
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Feb 1, 2020 11:09:31 GMT -7
Jim, kudos on the after-hours response. Dedication is a virtue. I own many Celestion, Emmenince, JBL, A Brown Soun and a few others that won't even make the list. Perhaps a direct replacement question is unfair, for I'd wager 1 to 1 comparison is subjective. I do like your answer and appreciate the direction. I'll check out your website for similar output stats. I've read many good reviews of your speakers. Seeing your making yourself available to us immediately makes you far more valuable (to me) than the other manufactures. I appreciate your time and efforts! There was a post here recently that discussed speaker efficiency between manufactures. Is there a standardized test for speaker efficiency? Does the specification leave the door open to interpretation? I'd assume that it's a straight-forward ratio of power out divided by power in measured at 1 meter. Ah, somebody's got to do it. LOL Thanks for your reply.
The standard test I know of is the 1w, 1khz test with a db meter at 3 feet. Pretty sure that's what Celestion says they use to come up with their ratings. 20 years ago (until 2004) I was in constant contact with Duncan Boniface, a lead speaker engineer/designer at Celestion. He left for another company in 2004/5 after they moved production of guitar speakers to China.
Before that we must have exchanged hundreds if not thousands of emails on vintage speakers, cones, suspension, model # changes, and a whole pile of minute "you gotta be a speaker geek to want to know this stuff" details.
A couple of things he told me. A Cele Blue is rated at 100db, actual tests show it as 102db. That speaker uses the loudest cone they can get. Although they look the same mounted, the older Pulsonic cones were 100db. The new ones are louder than the older ones. Celestion used to get cones from various sources, built them in house for awhile in 74/75 (the RIC cone), then went to Kurt Mueller. After they moved to China there was a new Malaysian cone maker, can't remember their name right now, and they started making the "Chinese" Blue for Vox. Many found this version to be unacceptable compared to a UK made Blue.
But they used the same cone #'s on all of these different cones up until the last 3-5 years. So your H1777, 1777-53, 444, etc could all have the same number but be made by different manufacturers, and different pulp...and hence, different volumes, tones, etc.
That all falls under the "Specifications subject to change without notice." clause.
When I took over complete production in 2011, it was decided to perfect the model offerings with Kurt Mueller cones from the UK, custom made frames with machine screws/epoxy for the magnet to frame adhesion, standardize on US made Kraft, Nomex and Kapton voice coils (for various power handling, etc), and never use metal, aluminum or fiberglass voice coil formers (because the tone is harsh).
So now I have about 1500 frames, cones, coils and related parts in stock at all times. It's just made getting orders out in 2-3 days a lot better than waiting 2-3 months.
As for the final db testing method, I know Eminence rates their speakers a lot louder than they are in person, Celestion rates their models lower than what they are, and I'm right in the middle. Almost all of my speakers have a specific cone treatment, doping treatment for each model that's different, and I do use a slightly more pliable spider that allows the speaker to move easier, and break in faster.
All of that makes my speakers roughly 5% less loud than a comparitive Celestion. But the tone difference is worth the 5% loss. Most players tell me it helps them get their amp in a better tonal range on the volume knob and gets the tubes working better. Others tell me it helps them tame their amps slightly so they don't enrage the FOH / sound guys.
Hope that explains some of this a little better.
And now, I have a few speakers to build, so I'm going to sign off!
Jim
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Feb 1, 2020 16:32:48 GMT -7
Jim is a great guy. He recently helped me via email with a Celestion Creamback issue. Gave me helpful advice on speakers he didn’t even make, and openly offered his experience and expertise on a break in issue. That alone would be great, but on top of that he makes some of the best speakers in the biz. My next speaker purchase with be a scumback.
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Feb 3, 2020 8:57:21 GMT -7
Jim is a great guy. He recently helped me via email with a Celestion Creamback issue. Gave me helpful advice on speakers he didn’t even make, and openly offered his experience and expertise on a break in issue. That alone would be great, but on top of that he makes some of the best speakers in the biz. My next speaker purchase with be a scumback. Did you elect to get that Creamback swapped out again due to the cone doping issues you sent me pics of, or are you going to live with it?
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Feb 3, 2020 9:01:46 GMT -7
Hey Jim, Yes, Celestion voluntarily sent me one straight from the UK. Two day air. Unreal. Had to cost more than the speaker itself. Sometimes corporations have the fire power to really come through on the customer service. Never asked for the other back either. Both seem to work fine
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Post by detuned on Feb 3, 2020 9:59:51 GMT -7
No questions, just another testimonial for Ji.
I've a couple of Scumbacks: an H-55 in an Avatar 1X12 for a little more thump, and a Scumnico in a Z 1X10 (*ahem*) to create a mini stack for my M12. Both are awesome, and Jim gives you the straight dope on what kind of speaker best matches what you're trying to accomplish, even if it's not the most expensive on the site or even one of his.
Appreciate you, Jim!
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Feb 3, 2020 19:38:47 GMT -7
No questions, just another testimonial for Ji. I've a couple of Scumbacks: an H-55 in an Avatar 1X12 for a little more thump, and a Scumnico in a Z 1X10 (*ahem*) to create a mini stack for my M12. Both are awesome, and Jim gives you the straight dope on what kind of speaker best matches what you're trying to accomplish, even if it's not the most expensive on the site or even one of his. Appreciate you, Jim! Thanks detuned!
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Feb 6, 2020 9:45:50 GMT -7
Jim, Can you speak to the difference in ohms. My Carmen Ghia only has the 4 and 8 ohm outputs. My understanding is that the difference between two of the same speakers at 4 or 8 ohms would be very minimal and undetectable for most ears. First, I wonder if you would agree with that. Second, are there differences? What I've never looked at do the ohms affect the sensitivity of the speaker? That's what we are looking at when we see the db #, right? I think I'm in the market for something that will help my Ghia be a little less LOUD. Trying to figure out if the ohms matter in any meaningful way. Thanks, Matthew
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Feb 6, 2020 14:44:27 GMT -7
Jim, Can you speak to the difference in ohms. My Carmen Ghia only has the 4 and 8 ohm outputs. My understanding is that the difference between two of the same speakers at 4 or 8 ohms would be very minimal and undetectable for most ears. First, I wonder if you would agree with that. Second, are there differences? What I've never looked at do the ohms affect the sensitivity of the speaker? That's what we are looking at when we see the db #, right? I think I'm in the market for something that will help my Ghia be a little less LOUD. Trying to figure out if the ohms matter in any meaningful way. Thanks, Matthew 4 ohms has less resistance, it will be a hair louder. 8 ohms is where you'll want to go with this amp. Difference in tone should be minimal, but I don't make 4 ohm speakers because they sound a lot different in the 12" / 1.75" voice coil Scumback/Celestion style frames as a single speaker. Can't tell you why, probably the wire used, but all of the ones I had custom made as 4 ohm were sent back by clients to be reconed as 8 ohm versions. They just sound wrong. Now, with two 8 ohm speakers wired in parallel to 4 ohms, that's not a problem, or with two 8 ohms wired in series to 16 ohms.
DB is the efficiency rating of the speaker (SPL =Sound Pressure Level) and it's loudness factor. The less the db rating, the less loud it is.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Feb 6, 2020 16:40:06 GMT -7
Thanks, very helpful. I read your statement from 2011 about discontinuing 10” speakers. Any change in the future regarding that?
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Feb 6, 2020 17:11:46 GMT -7
Nope. 10" speaker sales were really light, as in 30-40 per year. My minimum order of 10" frames was 600 units. Didn't make sense to warehouse 15 years of frames.
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bobg
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by bobg on Feb 24, 2020 17:22:41 GMT -7
Hey Jim, what’s a good speaker to combine with a m75 in a 2x12?
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Post by Don A on Feb 24, 2020 18:23:44 GMT -7
I'm a big fan of Scumback alnicos (actually, alnicos in general). I've got a pair of S75-PVCs that I use with an Avatar 45 (JTM 45) and an SC75 that I use in a 1x12 when I want to travel light. I should try these with my Cure!
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Post by Rockerfeller on Feb 24, 2020 19:09:33 GMT -7
Do you guys make something similar to the Celestion Gold, but with lower db?
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Feb 24, 2020 20:13:01 GMT -7
Hey Jim, what’s a good speaker to combine with a m75 in a 2x12? Depends on the rest of the rig, but usually an H75. Best to fill out my recommendation form to be sure.
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Feb 24, 2020 20:14:24 GMT -7
Do you guys make something similar to the Celestion Gold, but with lower db? Yes, the S75-PVC 65w speaker.
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Post by bigben55 on Mar 7, 2020 10:32:10 GMT -7
I have a Scumback H75 65watt 12" and it's awesome. I also have a Ceoestion G12H30 70th anniversary. The Scumback beats it hands down, but the Celestion is still a very good sounding speaker. The H75 was excellent in my Z28 combo but it's even BETTER in my Valvetrain Saratoga. That amp isnt "as" bassy as the Z28, and the H75 has big(but tight) lows, that can be too much in the Z28. I really want to try a J75 in the Z. I'm certain those who love a Greenback in the Z28 would love a M75 even more, but I'm not one of those people. Too much mids.
What my ears tell me comparing the two is, the Scumback is more immediate. As in, the notes seem to jump out of the speaker faster. It's a little louder, has a little more of everything EQ wise, and has a better crunch to it. Clean, they are fairly similar, except for that "quickness."
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Apr 20, 2020 15:08:09 GMT -7
I haven't heard this combo in person, but I've just caught up on some threads on another forum where the Z28 sounds "magical" with an M75 65w speaker.
Still building, and shipping here in So Cal, since the shop is in my 3 car garage out back. I'm one of the few fortunate businesses to be able to do this and obey the LA County mandated "Stay Safer at Home" orders.
And now that I've sold six speakers before 11 am PST, I guess I better get out to the shop to finish those builds. Stay safe, hope you're all not too frigging bored!
Jim
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Post by helmi on Apr 20, 2020 16:38:30 GMT -7
Thanks for taking your time to be here!
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Apr 20, 2020 17:55:35 GMT -7
You know, I've got some free time as of late...like we all do! LOL
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Post by Scumback Speakers on Jan 16, 2021 7:49:27 GMT -7
Update January 16, 2021 First off, Happy New Year!
About the time of my last post on this thread in April 2020, a sizable increase in business happened. It's been keeping me in the shop at least 6 days per week, and usually 7. I haven't been able to do much posting around building, packing and shipping speakers. When it slows down I should be able to contribute again. Right now, though, it's better to contact me via email and not through the PM on any guitar forum, board, or FB/Instagram.
Yes, it's been that busy!
Jim
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