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Post by bigben55 on Jan 2, 2019 12:27:05 GMT -7
I just spent 2 hours playing my G&L Tribute ASAT Junior II thru the Z28 with the Z12 speaker I just got. I got it used, it's broken in. I just gutted and rewired the guitar with CTS 500K pots, an .022 orange drop cap and a set of Wolfetone P90s(Mean/Meaner set, 8k/9k, A2 mags). 2 hrs of knob tweaking, REALLY listening, and I wound up putting the WGS Reaper HP back in it.
I initially played and reviewed it with my strat, liked it and wrote:
"Smooth and balanced are the 2 words that immediately come to mind. Not as much treble(a tad less) and nowhere near as much bass as the WGS Reaper HP. I wouldn't say its "chimey" either. I was shooting for less bass, so that's a plus. It definitely handles more amp overdrive without getting too wooly. The mids seem neutral with the Z28, which means they're probably perfect. I dont hear over midded mush, nor a scoop. I dont think it's quite as loud but is plenty loud. Dont think it has as much clean headroom, but has plenty headroom. Sounded good straight in and with pedals, with a strat or P90 tele. And the amp probably lost 2 lbs. Based on my needs, I'm happy with it. It fixed the too much bass thing without sacrificing much of anything."
Different story with the P90s. Plugged straight in, I had a hard time finding the sweet spot with the Z12. By sweet spot, I mean edge of breakup...clean with gtr vol at 70% & overdrive at 100%. Put the WGS back in, found it in 5 min despite that speaker's over abundance of bass. The Z12 lacked the bite and sparkle. I think itd be great in a brighter amp than the Z28. Nothing about is "bad," but I dont think it's got the best voice for the Z28. So back to the drawing board.
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Post by Christopher on Jan 2, 2019 16:10:50 GMT -7
I'd not blame the speaker as much as I'd put it on the 500K pots on the P90s. They sound better with a 250-300K pot IME. Your post regarding your strat validates that as it has 250K pots IIRC. The Z12 is a different beast than the reaper too and may react differently to different guitars. My 290DC sounds way thicker than my Strat through my '28 but it's through a 10 inch Gold. I'd try 250K pots and hear for a difference.
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Post by bigben55 on Jan 2, 2019 16:14:32 GMT -7
Wolfetone, and 90% of posts I've read recommend 500k with P90s and humbuckers. 250k would make them darker, right? And an .047 cap would make the treble roll off faster, right? I wouldn't want either. Correct me if I'm wrong; I dont know it all, by a long shot. I'd not blame the speaker as much as I'd put it on the 500K pots on the P90s. They sound better with a 250-300K pot IME. Your post regarding your strat validates that as it has 250K pots IIRC. The Z12 is a different beast than the reaper too and may react differently to different guitars. My 290DC sounds way thicker than my Strat through my '28 but it's through a 10 inch Gold. I'd try 250K pots and hear for a difference.
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Post by Christopher on Jan 2, 2019 16:42:51 GMT -7
Lollar on CapsI figured your ASAT Jr came with 250K pots and .022 caps stock. Maybe it didn't and came with 500K, either of which work on P90s. That said, I'd trouble shoot this from the angle of "what changed"- you loved the Strat through the Z12, it met your expectations tonally. The only thing that changed was the ASAT Jr's wiring, correct? Did the Jr sound good through the amp regardless of speaker before the change? Did the pickup height change higher/lower during the wiring? Did you put a new set of strings on? All those factors would yield a different character than the Strat through your amp and speaker. The '28 will sound like itself regardless of speaker- a percussive response, snappy top end and piano like low end and reflect the character of the speaker you're using i.e. H30 Anniv- clean and fat; Gold-thick and a little chewy at times; GB- rock with some room for the dial to creep up before the neighbors call you in. The only time I've played the Z12 was in a Cure combo and it excelled at it's function there- articulate, forward speaking and handling the amp's tones without farting out regardless of volume level. I went down the speaker rabbit hole with my Z-28 and found some things I liked and some I didn't care for. I learned what Lollar says so eloquently at the end of his blog piece from that experience: Likewise some guitars work well with some amps/speakers and sometimes they don't. It's what works for you that's the key.
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Post by bigben55 on Jan 2, 2019 17:22:53 GMT -7
Thx for the Lollar link. Good read!
I kinda figured, the strat with vintage power strat pickups(1994 G&L Legacy with stock Duncan SSL's, 6.65k) is a brighter guitar with brighter pickups. The Z28 is not what I consider a bright amp, and the Z12 not a bright speaker, but the guitars inherant brightness along with the G&L PTB tone controls counter that, offset it. Plug in a mahogany tele with fat P90s, that offset is gone. The WGS speaker, a G12H30 70th Anniversary variant, has lots of highs, AND lows(too much lows).
My opinion is, it's easier to roll off treble than add treble that isn't there to begin with. With the Z28, since its bass control adds gain, I'm not able to "get" all that gain with that WGS because upping amp bass combined with gobs of speaker bass make the tone TOO bassy. Am I making sense?
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Post by Christopher on Jan 2, 2019 17:56:21 GMT -7
I follow you on the abundant low end issue. I'd try lowering the P90s and seeing if that helps. Another thought, let it rest tonight and give it a fresh set of ears tomorrow. I have two ASAT classics and they both scream through the '28. One's maple and the other's rosewood. Not sure what to recommend save maybe dial up the treble w the Z12 inside and see how far you can add the bass before it wimps out using the P90s.
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Post by bigben55 on Jan 2, 2019 19:15:42 GMT -7
The ASAT Junior II is totally different than the ASAT Classic. I have one of those too, my main gig guitar(Fralin Blues Specials and a 4 way switch). I love that one with the amp set at 10-10-11 with my pedal board. The Junior is way more Gibsonesque, I wanted it to be. I want it to be the "straight in" guitar, no effects. Hotter, fatter, thicker.
I went back down and played it awhile, and still prefer the WGS over the Z12 with both ASATs, prefer the strat with the Z12 though. I'm just gonna save up for that Scumback H75.
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Post by trojanhov on Jan 2, 2019 20:45:56 GMT -7
I have a gold 10 in the combo and just put an et-65 in the 1x12 extension cab. I’m giving it some time before I make any more opinions. The only reference point I have is the cannabis Rex for a 12 inch speaker. So far I think i prefer the et-65 as it has less bass in general. I’m going to give it some more time for break-in, but so far it does seem to be brighter overall compared to the c Rex. Was interested in the z-12 but may just stay away for now.
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Post by big ( Al Z. ) on Jan 3, 2019 8:43:57 GMT -7
I also have a Gold 10 in my combo and a Z12 in the extension cab. My primary guitar is a Strat with Dimarzios SSH format. Perfect for the cover band I'm in playing 90s and classic rock. Cleans are very good and overdriven R&R tones are perfect. My amp searching days are over but I'll always be looking for another guitar !
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Post by Faze on Jan 5, 2019 20:19:00 GMT -7
I’m still really liking the alnico cream. Straight in or with my effects it just sounds great with the Z-28.
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Post by trojanhov on Jan 5, 2019 20:38:43 GMT -7
I’m still really liking the alnico cream. Straight in or with my effects it just sounds great with the Z-28. You’re killing me man. Wish that speaker wasn’t so expensive. I played the 10 inch gold at gig volume last Sunday with no brake lite set clean using my drives for dirt. Man it sounds great (didn’t feel like taking the extension cab). I can only imagine what the 12 inch cream sounds like
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Post by bigben55 on Jan 6, 2019 4:13:28 GMT -7
I really want to try a Scumback. Never have, everyone who has absolutely loves them. Comparison videos between Celestion and them have me always left me preferring the Scumback.
FWIE, I'd sell that Z12 cheap if anyone wants to give it s shot. Dont have a problem keeping it as it's a speaker that seems like it would work in SO many amps. I'd love to hear it in a Princeton or Deluxe Reverb.
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Post by Faze on Jan 6, 2019 17:35:21 GMT -7
I’m still really liking the alnico cream. Straight in or with my effects it just sounds great with the Z-28. You’re killing me man. Wish that speaker wasn’t so expensive. I played the 10 inch gold at gig volume last Sunday with no brake lite set clean using my drives for dirt. Man it sounds great (didn’t feel like taking the extension cab). I can only imagine what the 12 inch cream sounds like Sorry brother. It is expensive but the good thing about it is it will hold its value if you decide you don’t like it and want to sell it. If you liked the gold I have a good feeling that you would really like the cream. I giggled my z-28 today at church with my board and not only does that speaker take pedals great but even the clean tone and slightly broken up tone I was getting when not using the pedals was just pure organic bliss. I can’t say enough good things about that speaker. It is something you just have to experience for yourself.
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Post by bigben55 on Jan 6, 2019 18:44:31 GMT -7
What's the tonal differences between a 12" Gold and a Creamback?
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Post by Faze on Jan 6, 2019 21:41:23 GMT -7
What's the tonal differences between a 12" Gold and a Creamback? The creamback is more like a higher powered greenback. The alnico cream which is the speaker I have is like a cross Between the gold and the blue alnico speakers. It’s hard to describe the difference between the gold and the creamback I had both of those speakers when I had my remedy. I liked the gold with the remedy for cleans and slightly broken up tones. But liked the creamback better for more classic rock type tones. They are both great speakers. The alnico cream sounds vintage. It just has a rich tone too it both clean and overdriven. I could have gott another creamback to go with the z-28 and would have probably been just fine. But I already had the alnico cream so I just went with it. It’s 90 watts so it sounds great at lower volumes which is also a plus for me because I don’t use a brake lite.
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Post by waka52 on Jan 8, 2019 6:49:13 GMT -7
I just connected my Z-28 to a Celestion V-type in a Morgan single 12" cabinet. I have a well broken in V30 in the Z-28. The V30 is coming out, V-type going in. It is the best sound I've heard from my Z-28 yet. I'm starting to think the Celestion V-type is a diamond in the rough. I play out this weekend and will report on how it sounded.
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Post by bigben55 on Jan 10, 2019 9:37:18 GMT -7
I just ordered a Scumback H75, 65 watt 8 ohm. It might be a week or two but I'll post a detailed review. It's their G12H30 type. My current speaker, WGS Reaper HP is too. I dont expext DRASTIC differences but the Scumback should have tighter bass, be a tad brighter and more overall clarity if I've done my homework properly. If it does, my speaker search will be over.
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Post by trojanhov on Jan 10, 2019 9:47:02 GMT -7
I just ordered a Scumback H75, 65 watt 8 ohm. It might be a week or two but I'll post a detailed review. It's their G12H30 type. My current speaker, WGS Reaper HP is too. I dont expext DRASTIC differences but the Scumback should have tighter bass, be a tad brighter and more overall clarity if I've done my homework properly. If it does, my speaker search will be over. Excited to hear your thoughts!
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