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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 13:19:00 GMT -7
We've got a lot of seasoned players out there. I'm curious which speaker you would put on top in this situation? For larger shows, I'm using two 1x12 convertible cabs stacked, both open back. One loaded with an Austin Speaker Works KTS70, the other with a Celestion Gold. Even though the KTS70 is rated at 98 dB, it is perceptively louder than the Gold. Not much, but some. I prefer the Gold on top, because it cuts so well and allows me to hear myself on stage without using a monitor or in ears. The KTS70 on top tends to overpower the Gold. My bassist says the KTS70 is too boomy connected to the floor and prefers the C Gold on the bottom. We tried it this past weekend and I needed more help from the monitors than I traditionally like. I tend to wander around when playing. I'm going to take the back panels out this week to experiment open vs. closed back. I'm thinking sealing up the KTS70 might be the ticket. EDIT: The KTS70 is a G12H30 variant.
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Post by zpilot on Aug 1, 2017 18:11:13 GMT -7
Your bassist's opinion is because you are treading on his territory with the KTS70 on the bottom. That bass heavy speaker is coupling with the floor making those lows even stronger. He may not even be aware of that. I prefer to use my speakers the way you do, unless on large stages and outdoors. At those kinds of shows I like sealed cabs unless the stage monitors are really good. That's the great thing about convertible back cabs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 19:16:49 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 4:22:15 GMT -7
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out ways we can both get what we want. Otherwise, I'll just fire him... Yeah, just can him and put your boomy speaker on the other side...keep your Gold where it is...haha...all jokes aside, my thoughts were the same as zpilot's...you are in his territory.
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Post by southmusic70 on Aug 2, 2017 4:26:50 GMT -7
I use an Auralex Gramma to float my speaker in an effort to avoid boominess. It seems to work.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 5:03:29 GMT -7
This might be crazy but, how about you adjust the bass on the amp?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 7:54:49 GMT -7
This might be crazy but, how about you adjust the bass on the amp? This may seem crazy, but the bass is totally off. As in zero bass on the dial.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 8:18:49 GMT -7
This might be crazy but, how about you adjust the bass on the amp? This may seem crazy, but the bass is totally off. As in zero bass on the dial. Does that guy have to be on your side?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 9:05:17 GMT -7
This may seem crazy, but the bass is totally off. As in zero bass on the dial. Does that guy have to be on your side? He's not. One of the reasons I'm baffled. We didn't have this issue when I was using the DB4. I think the Therapy is too manly for him...
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Aug 2, 2017 10:01:21 GMT -7
I'm with you on your original suggestion. Closed back for the KTS on the bottom, open for the Gold on top. He may be getting some of the lows coming out of the back of the open KTS. One other thing to check is what he means by boomy. Sometimes boomy isn't lows but low mids making things muddy.
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Post by zpilot on Aug 2, 2017 13:54:33 GMT -7
You know, I played with a bass man for awhile who felt that the keyboard player shouldn't play anything much below middle C because that was getting into his range. Things got a little testy between them because they set up right next to each other. They finally worked things out by just listening to each other more closely and staying out of each other's way in the sonic spectrum. That's just good musicianship in my book.
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Post by southmusic70 on Aug 2, 2017 18:10:49 GMT -7
A little off topic, but let me say that, after playing guitar in big bands for 50 years, in that ensemble setting I very rarely play anything but the the top 4 strings (pitch-wise) of the guitar. That way, you stay out of the bass player's way and minimize, as much as possible, interference with the piano player. Granted, this involves using a lot of non-conventional voicings in order to assure decent voice leading and not moving around too much (working too hard).
Now, once you do this, all you have left to do is help the bass player amputate the pianist's left hand and everything will be just fine - and the bass player will pay you to help him do this.
The final improvement is to cut off the pianist's other hand; that is perfection - the best times I've had in a big band was about 3 years without a pianist: freedom to voice my way and a happy bass player.
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Post by zpilot on Aug 3, 2017 8:57:14 GMT -7
A little off topic, but let me say that, after playing guitar in big bands for 50 years, in that ensemble setting I very rarely play anything but the the top 4 strings (pitch-wise) of the guitar. That way, you stay out of the bass player's way and minimize, as much as possible, interference with the piano player. Granted, this involves using a lot of non-conventional voicings in order to assure decent voice leading and not moving around too much (working too hard). Now, once you do this, all you have left to do is help the bass player amputate the pianist's left hand and everything will be just fine - and the bass player will pay you to help him do this. The final improvement is to cut off the pianist's other hand; that is perfection - the best times I've had in a big band was about 3 years without a pianist: freedom to voice my way and a happy bass player. I've always noticed that big bodied arch-top guitars do not accentuate the lower strings the way a dreadnought does. Such is the difference between where those guitars sit in the mix of their originally intended genres; big band vs bluegrass.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 10:10:45 GMT -7
I've never had issues staying out of people's way in two guitar bands. This band is a little different. I'm the only guitarist, and the bassist plays more of a lead baritone guitar style of bass. It's making me approach my guitar playing in a whole new direction. Not necessarily a bad thing, just different.
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Post by zpilot on Aug 3, 2017 11:03:00 GMT -7
I played with a guy who thought he was John Entwistle. Which is great if you are doing Who covers, or you are doing original music and there is a place for that. We were not and that style of bass did not fit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 9:52:27 GMT -7
I went closed back on the KTS cab. Solved all of our problems.
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Post by zpilot on Aug 7, 2017 10:53:22 GMT -7
How so? What did that change that made him happy? If anything that should have made the lows stronger since the bleed from back to front would have canceled out some lows. A sealed cab will be more directional so maybe he is just not hearing your overall sound as much.
How is your drummer with that? Mine have always liked open backed cabs since they could hear me better. On a stage where everything is monitored that doesn't matter but I seldom play in a situation like that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 11:39:34 GMT -7
The sound leaking out of the back and sides was what was doing it. I actually positioned myself out front about a yard to the side of the stack and even noticed my stage volume was much more manageable. Front of house still sounds the same, but everything on stage is a bit more organized, for lack of a better term.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 16:05:43 GMT -7
How so? What did that change that made him happy? If anything that should have made the lows stronger since the bleed from back to front would have canceled out some lows. A sealed cab will be more directional so maybe he is just not hearing your overall sound as much. How is your drummer with that? Mine have always liked open backed cabs since they could hear me better. On a stage where everything is monitored that doesn't matter but I seldom play in a situation like that. I'm still keeping the cab with the Gold in it open backed and on the top. That, paired with his monitor seems to do the trick. He was on my side in the "Gold on the top" debate...
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