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Post by joekondziella on Oct 4, 2005 12:59:55 GMT -7
I got my Maz18nr head in July and I've been gigging steady with it since. And although it sounded great, I was missing alot of the high end and it was mid heavy. I thought it was because I use a Tone Tubby H1 and it was so dark because of it. I was ready to order a G12H30 or something comparable. My amp came with JJ's in V1 V2 & a Sovtek 12ax7LPS in the PI. Well I put the 3 Svetlanas in before we started our last night at the gig. It was like someone pulled a packing blanket off my amp. And even though I was playing real quiet (one drawback of doing casino work), I was totally inspired to play. I used my LP Historic '54 (Tonequest Model) and covered (with pedals) Country to Santana to Maroon 5. Thanks Doc for a Great Amp and all the advice from you and the rest of the knowledge I find in this forum -the first one I've ever visited. Regards Joe K.
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Post by joekondziella on Oct 4, 2005 13:06:45 GMT -7
didn't mean to double post
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Post by guitarman1 on Oct 6, 2005 6:05:43 GMT -7
And although it sounded great, I was missing alot of the high end and it was mid heavy. That's seems sort of odd to me, as I just did some A/B listening with my Maz 38 comparing JJ ECC83Ss to the stock Svetlanas and I find that the Svetlanas are slightly warmer & thicker, while the JJ's are a bit more open in the mids with a brighter top end. I also tried one of the new Groove Tube 12AX7-M Mullard knockoffs and found that to have the chime and clarity of a JJ and the warmth of a Svetlana. I can't say that the difference is worth the crazy price Groove Tubes is asking for this tube ($25.00 MSRP). I've heard from allot of folks that they've had problems with many of these right out of the box. I bought one, but it was noisy so I sent it back for a new one. I've been using the replacement in my Shiva for about a year with no problems.
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Post by joekondziella on Oct 6, 2005 8:56:49 GMT -7
What type of speaker(s) are you using ?
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Post by guitarman1 on Oct 6, 2005 11:41:25 GMT -7
What type of speaker(s) are you using ? Maz 38 1x12 combo with G12H. Bogner head with 2x12 Bogner cab loaded with V30s.
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Post by toneking on Oct 8, 2005 5:56:13 GMT -7
I too changed my Jr. 1x12 combo with reverb over to Svetlana tubes and it sounded like I went from am to fm. The amp really came alive. I changed V1 and V2 as the Dr. suggested and left the LPS in as it sounds better in the reverb circuit. I have a 1966 BF Pro Reverb that seems a bit harsh in the mids and highs, I'm wondering if the Svets would help it out? Any thoughts on that?
Peace, TK
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Post by garyh on Oct 8, 2005 6:40:00 GMT -7
I changed to the Svets some time ago and the amp is warmer and fatter with the sweetest high end; just a gorgeous tone.
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a42
Full Member
Posts: 130
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Post by a42 on Oct 9, 2005 21:14:45 GMT -7
Which Svet's are we talking about here? The SED "Winged C" or the ones by NSS?
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Post by garyh on Oct 10, 2005 15:16:55 GMT -7
I'm using the ones from New Sensor. I guess the Winged-C's are the real Svetlana's but these are the one's the doctor was talking about and they sound great IMHO.
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Post by joekondziella on Oct 10, 2005 16:25:36 GMT -7
these are the ones I put in as well. dig em
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a42
Full Member
Posts: 130
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Post by a42 on Oct 10, 2005 18:12:05 GMT -7
Cool. I'll give 'em a try. Thanks.
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Oct 11, 2005 3:53:42 GMT -7
I tossed 3 svets in my Sr. To be honest, I switched back to the JJ's and Sovtek. First off, IMO, I only noticed an ever slight change which made it a tad warmer, but nothing really to write home about. I realize tubes have to break in, which these are still fresh in the box.
I missed the mids and high end of the JJ's... so I switched back. Sad part is, that was a lot of cash for the 3 Svets. I spent an entire day just swapping, playing, swapping playing. The only true test is to record clips and then A/B them.
I guess I should try the two svets in P1 / P2 and throw a 12AX7M as the PI. Oh well, I love the amp the way it shipped. Playing with that 97th vs. 98th percentile of sound can drive you nuts.
pg ;-)
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Post by gatorblue on Oct 12, 2005 11:53:09 GMT -7
My Maz JR with 2X12s sounds just like the Dr. said--better with the new tubes on my tele. Also a little sweeter tone with my '68 Paul (but that may be my imagination--slight differences like that are hard to remember with sound).
-Gator
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Post by garyh on Oct 12, 2005 19:23:07 GMT -7
The change in sound in my amp was not subtle at all. It was pretty dramatic. The sound went from sharp and biting to warm and fat. The high mids are still there but much smoother and thicker.
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Post by guitarman1 on Oct 14, 2005 7:34:34 GMT -7
IMHO each individual tube with each individual amp will react differently. With the inconsistencies of new production tubes, you just have to experiment and swap in and out every tube you have access to until you find a combination that works. Certain brands do have general sonic characteristics, but with the loose tolerances in today's tube manufacturing, it's a crap shoot finding something that works well in your amp in a specific position. Also, hand made amps aren't cookie cutter clones of each other, so a JJ in V1 in my 2005 Maz amp may not be stellar in your 2002 Maz. Case in point: I had a Maz Sr. head about 2 years ago with a NOS JAN Phillips that sounded stunning in V1. I pulled that tube before I sold the head. That exact same tube in V1 in my new Maz Sr. combo sounds brittle & one dimensional. Other NOS JAN Phillips in V1 of that specific amp sound equally lame. A JJ or Svet sound buch better. NOS doesn't always guarantee success. My band mate and I did some power tube swapping on my old Maz and we barely heard any differences between a matched quad of JJs compared to a matched quad of NOS Brimars. We assumed the Brimars would sound better. We wanted the Brimars to sound better (especially after he paid big bucks for the set). They just had to sound better 'cause they were NOS from the golden days.....they just didn't make the magic we expected. I just accumulate as many tubes as I can and experiment with each amp until I get a pleasing combination. You put your money down and you take your chances.
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Oct 19, 2005 21:06:29 GMT -7
I take back what I said about the Svets. Turns out I had some bad cables that were dampening my sound. I tossed the Svets back in, now it sounds just like the Doc stated.
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Post by toneseeker on Nov 2, 2005 16:11:56 GMT -7
My almost brand new Jr is in factory equipped with Svetlanas. On the glass is printed Svetlana Electron Devices 12AX7 + the logo. Is this the 'praised' Svetlana tube discussed here???
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Post by DRZ on Nov 3, 2005 3:57:16 GMT -7
My almost brand new Jr is in factory equipped with Svetlanas. On the glass is printed Svetlana Electron Devices 12AX7 + the logo. Is this the 'praised' Svetlana tube discussed here??? Yes. Z
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Post by crazy4blues on Nov 8, 2005 14:16:37 GMT -7
Are you talking about your guitar patch cords? Speaker wire? In either case, what were you using before, and what did you change to? Thanks! I take back what I said about the Svets. Turns out I had some bad cables that were dampening my sound. I tossed the Svets back in, now it sounds just like the Doc stated.
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Post by mazmaster on Jan 5, 2006 10:56:36 GMT -7
It's hard for me to imagine any tube complement that sounds sweeter than Ei-ECC83 -> Ei-ECC83 -> 12AX7LPS, but I'm getting ready to try the Tung-Sols, JJ-ECC803Ss and Svetlanas!
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jeffd
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by jeffd on Jan 7, 2006 18:10:04 GMT -7
Where can I buy the Svetlanas that Dr Z has recommended for the Maz 18? Thanks.
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Post by garyh on Jan 8, 2006 18:28:13 GMT -7
I got mine from New Sensor which is where the Doc got his. There is a $75 minimum though.
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Post by mazmaster on Jan 9, 2006 11:54:04 GMT -7
Where can I buy the Svetlanas that Dr Z has recommended for the Maz 18? Thanks. I just ordered three of 'em from here: www.thetubestore.com/The service, price and online ordering process are all top-notch. Hopefully, the tubes will work too, when they arrive. ;>)
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Post by taswegian on Jan 9, 2006 14:23:57 GMT -7
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Post by mazmaster on Jan 9, 2006 22:15:26 GMT -7
Well, I read what Myles had to say and what the Tube Store says and I think they *both* might be a little misleading. I have long praised Groove Tubes quality (as experienced in my own amps) and defended the extra cost to get it. However, I have always hated how they obscure the source of their tubes by giving them their own names. It makes it difficult to know what you're getting and how it relates to what else is out there. A perfect example is the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. Groove Tubes sells this tube as the GT12AX7-R2. Regarding the source, they only mention that this tube is "from the Russian tube factory that builds our KT66HP". Isn't that misleading? Why not tell us exactly what this tube is, so we know what we're getting and how to compare it to evaluations that others have done on this tube. What if we hear something great about this tube and want to buy the high quality, thoroughly-tested GT version of it? The only way to do that (as I have done) is to compare pictures and try to read between the lines! That's crap. Well, I've got more to say about this, but I have to go now. More later...
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Post by taswegian on Jan 9, 2006 22:42:08 GMT -7
Cool, I just wanted to make sure you were aware of what Myles had to say.
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Post by mazmaster on Jan 10, 2006 10:29:32 GMT -7
Cool, I just wanted to make sure you were aware of what Myles had to say. Thanks for the heads up. Like I was saying, I think there's inaccuracy and incompleteness from both parties. One other issue I've always had with GT and one which The Tube Store legitimately questions is the GT 1-10 rating system. As an EE myself, I always wondered how, with just 10 bins to sort a huge variety of tubes, GT can obtain a close match between tubes. I have not studied vacuum tubes in depth, but I do know that transconductance and plate current can vary all over the map from tube to tube and even more so under dynamic conditions. Myles criticizes TTS for bringing this up, but doesn't adequately answer the charge, IMO. Myles says, "As far as repeating ratings or numbers .... buy a set of their tubes and look record their numbers. If you can find how this cross references to ANY known standard, please let me know ... I surely cannot figure it out! Also, if they send you a set of tubes that says "44" on them as an example .... have a good tech test them. Next time you ask for a set of "44" tubes, then have the same tech test them. Surprise !" What about a simple set of numbers, proving the point, instead of the hand-waving? What was said above tells me nothing. Well, I have also tested matched GT tubes in my amps and found them to vary quite a bit under static conditions. Cathode current variations of up to 7-8 mA have not been uncommon in my experience. Sure, that could be due to my amps' variations and not the tubes themselves, but I have not ever seen this kind of "mismatch" in the same amps with tubes matched specifically to plate current and transconductance, such as those from Ruby Tubes. Tube Store claims to match tubes in the same way. GT does not. I have heard the claims that I'm only looking at *static* measurements and that it's the *dynamic* measurements that matter, but I have never ever seen any scientific proof for what GT is claiming. How about some scope traces showing how the tubes match dynamically and how the mismatched static measurements I've taken were misleading me? How about some measurements and scope traces of Tube Store tubes to show how "badly" they're matched? All I've seen is hand-waving from both sides. But, ears tell another story. I just recently compared two brand new pairs of #6 GT-EL84S tubes (which are rebranded JJ-EL84 tubes) in my Maz 18 and found them to sound *completely* different! One pair sounds like the #6s I've had in the past and one sounds soft and mushy and dark, a lot like a #3 duet I had in the past. WTF? Whatever happened to the incredible rating system and the consistency I'm supposed to be paying extra for? All the hand-waving in the world does not make up for the fact that these two #6 pairs sound totally different in the same cathode-biased amp. What makes this even more annoying is that the GT pair cost me $29.99 (retail!!!), whereas The Tube Store charges $17.95 and Doug's Tubes charges $16.00. What am I *really* getting for double the freaking cost?! Is anyone gonna' tell me that Doug doesn't know how to match and test tubes and that he's dishonest and out to rip me off? I've never heard anything but good things about Doug and have only experienced extremely good things from him myself. So, why on earth, should I ever buy another pair of JJ-EL84s from Groove Tubes again? Myles also says that TTS was inaccurate in saying that GT doesn't offer online ordering. Well, sure, GT offers online ordering, but at their astronomical MSRPs!!! Who in their right mind would order from their site and pay full MSRP? With GT *retail* prices often running double those of other suppliers (as with the JJ-EL84), why would anyone pay the full MSRP?! So, in all practicality, TTS was correct in saying that GT doesn't have 24/7 online ordering. Myles mentions the that GT distributors "discount heavily", but that's not true either...well, depending on your definition of "heavy". I looked high and low for a "heavy" discount on the GT-12AX7M, but only found $2-3 off the MSRP of $25 at the time...and, for a tube which really did not sound all that good in any amp I tried it in! The "heavy" discount I found on their $35 MSRP GT-EL84S is just $5 at Musician's Friend, for example. So, where's this "heavy" discounting Myles is talking about? Not only that, but it's sometimes difficult to find GT tubes in stock with their distributors. They often have to special order them. So, you pay more and wait longer for something that is not always better than what you'd get cheaper and quicker elsewhere. Now, to be fair, I did notice that The Tube Store says that Groove Tubes doesn't make any of their own tubes. Well, we all know they do (the Mullard Reissue, for example) and we all know they have foreign factories using their tooling and building to their specs, thus making product that can only be had through Groove Tubes. Fair enough. But, honestly, in my quick read of Myles' treatise and the Tube Store site itself, I found more inaccuracy in Myles' comments than in the Tube Store's comments.
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