|
|
Post by msterling45 on Mar 27, 2016 21:08:18 GMT -7
My Ghia is wayyyy too loud for the club gigs I've been playing lately. A guy on Facebook suggested that I run it on 1 power tube to decrease volume. He claims that classA amps make this possible. I've heard of pulling the 2 outer 6l6s on fenders but never 1 of a pair of el84s. Is there any creedance to this idea? Is it safe?
I love the Ghia as a clean platform but overdrive pedals just don't compare to its natural overdrive.
I'm also considering jj's el844s to decrease volume. I had a brake lite but didn't really like what it did to my sound. I really dig it w/ a blue but I know a less efficient speaker would probably help a lot. Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by jb on Mar 27, 2016 22:19:33 GMT -7
I don't generally listen to the guy on Facebook, but running the Ghia on one power tube doesn't seem to make sense to me, since it wasn't designed that way. Perhaps others who are more technical than myself could provide more insight. I would just go with an Airbrake and less efficient speaker. If that's still too loud, perhaps the Maz 8 that was set up for a single el84.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Mar 28, 2016 4:42:24 GMT -7
NO NO NO! These amps are 'push-pull'. Meaning one tube is providing power (pulse) while the other recharges. (not really recharges, but I couldn't think of a better word...maybe pauses.) Sort of like your legs when running, one leg is touching the ground and moving you forward while the other reloads. Using only 1 tube of a amp designed for push pull, means a one legged man is trying to run. Pulling one tube of a '2 X anything' should (I think) flat out not work, and at worst, be damaging to the amp. The Ghia is not a class A amp. Cathode biased...yes. You've heard of pulling the outer two tubes of a 4 x 6L6 Fender...and I've heard of pulling the outer two tubes of a 4 X EL34 Marshall to reduce volume. As long as you pull the outer two, the 'push pull' method is kept in balance. (as opposed to pulling 1 tube of a 4 tube amp) This will work, but it's not optimal. I see you have a Ghia head and 'various cabinets'. Do you have a 1x10 cabinet? If not, you might want to grab one and load it with a 10" greenback. At 95db, it's a very inefficient speaker. celestion.com/product/31/g10_greenback/...or get a maz 8 or a mini. You said you didn't like what a brake lite did to your sound. But for the most part, that's all in your head. Forum member Benttop had made recordings with and without a brakelite and posted them, asking people to guess which recordings have attenuation, and how much. They all sounded the same. People's ears hear things differently at different volume levels. The biggest mistake people make with a brake lite (and other attenuators) is they start playing without one, getting accustomed to the feel/tone of the loud guitar. Then start applying the attenuator and they think their tone is diminished. A person should judge how loud they think they will need to be, and start out setting the attenuator at, or 1 click below this level. If they need to be louder, clicking 1 louder doesn't seem to make people think their tone is being robbed. But clicking DOWN on the attenuator, people become dissatisfied. But it has more to do with the human ear than it does guitar tone. |
|
|
|
Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Mar 28, 2016 4:51:30 GMT -7
Trying to run the Ghia on 1 tube is definitely NOT a recommendation that I'd try. That kind of little-known trick technically did work on some older amps, but what people still don't understand is that it changes your output impedance too, among possibly other things.
msterling45, what kind of speaker are you using? Using a less-efficient (lower dB rating) speaker can achieve a huge reduction in overall/perceived volume; in fact, using a speaker that's rated a few dB's less than your current one can be equivalent to cutting your wattage in half. Yes, really.
I'd start first by looking at your speaker, and then consider those EL-844's next. Also, if this means spending any significant amount of $$ on new stuff, I'd also consider a Brake Lite (or a Brake Lite SA) which could entirely make the speaker and/or tube swaps unnecessary. On the lower-wattage amps, the Brake Lite is a very neutral-sounding attenuator and it's a very useful tool all-around.
|
|
|
|
Post by pcns on Mar 28, 2016 5:11:27 GMT -7
I want to back up the previous two post, don't do it. I do recall this topic coming up before on this forum and even Dr Z came out and said not to do it. Speakers and or a Brake Lite will help you reduce your volume. Those are good tools but you need to take the time to learn how to use them. My 2 cents, Todd  |
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Mar 28, 2016 6:03:42 GMT -7
I can't recall any statement ever by Dr Z saying it was OK to run any of his amps without a full power tube complement. Attenuation is the way to go, if you don't want to mess with a speaker change. I was using my Ghia at home with the Brake Lite on 4 (max attenuation). It sounded wonderful. Importantly, I subscribe to the process John mentions. In this case, I set my tone and pedals up with the BL on 4 and just left it there. I'll admit I was tempted to unleash it a bit... |
|
|
|
Post by southmusic70 on Mar 28, 2016 8:08:57 GMT -7
How is your guitar set?
A lot of people dime their volume controls and end up in what they think is an uncontrollable situation when there is an easy solution.
Or get an M12 or Maz 8, maybe.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Mar 28, 2016 8:44:57 GMT -7
Some great advice by the posters above. Definitely don't pull a tube - will not work.
|
|
|
|
Post by msterling45 on Mar 28, 2016 9:30:35 GMT -7
The other night I was playing a Z 1x12 w/ a blue. At church, I play through the 1x12 and a Z 2x10 at the other end of the stage. Both cabs sound great alone but wonderful together.
I did some recording a few months ago w/ the brake lite and both the engineer and myself could tell some major differences upon playback. Don't get me wrong, the brake lite is fantastic, I just don't think it's for me.
I've been playing w/ the volume about 8- 9 o'clock but I'd really like to be running it from 11-3. I'm gonna try the JJ el844s first, then maybe a greenback in place of the blue if it needs to come down some more.
Thanks so much for the feedback and ideas guys!
|
|
|
|
Post by nmz on Mar 28, 2016 14:15:36 GMT -7
You also might consider a different amp. I know it is not always possible but a Z with a master volume might be in your future.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Mar 28, 2016 14:27:04 GMT -7
You also might consider a different amp. I know it is not always possible but a Z with a master volume might be in your future. In my humble opinion.... Master volumes have more effect on tone/feel/dynamics than attenuators. |
|
|
|
Post by nmz on Mar 28, 2016 14:44:43 GMT -7
You also might consider a different amp. I know it is not always possible but a Z with a master volume might be in your future. In my humble opinion.... Master volumes have more effect on tone/feel/dynamics than attenuators. I am not opposed to attenuators, owning a brakelite. But if you have not, try a Therapy's MV. Game changer! |
|
|
|
Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Mar 28, 2016 16:10:24 GMT -7
Absolutely agree with you on the Therapy. It's (and the Monza's too) PPIMV works remarkably well. Best I've heard. If you take power amp crunch out of the equation, I prefer it to attenuators. In the end, though, there's nothing like a Therapy unleashed with the Master up all the way. It exhibits remarkable dynamics, very Trainwreck-ish.
|
|
|
|
Post by southmusic70 on Mar 28, 2016 16:18:05 GMT -7
I'm still wondering where the guitar's volume controls(s) are set.
It can make a substantial difference in the entire signal chain.
Just saying...
|
|
|
|
Post by rcrecelius on Mar 28, 2016 19:19:25 GMT -7
If you can't turn a ghia past 8-9 o'clock, you need a direct box...seriously, why even bother with an amp if it has to be damn near off anywau?
|
|
|
|
Post by msterling45 on Mar 28, 2016 21:30:17 GMT -7
If you can't turn a ghia past 8-9 o'clock, you need a direct box...seriously, why even bother with an amp if it has to be damn near off anywau? Occasionally, I get it up to 10 at church and the cleans w/ my Es-335 are just sublime. I've never heard a digital source that can compare |
|
|
|
Post by msterling45 on Mar 28, 2016 21:32:50 GMT -7
I'm still wondering where the guitar's volume controls(s) are set. It can make a substantial difference in the entire signal chain. Just saying... Guitar's volume controls are almost always on 10/10 but I use a volume pedal to toggle my level. Believe me, I'd rather do it with a volume knob but it's hard to swell ambient chords w/ a volume knob unless you're playing a strat |
|
|
|
Post by msterling45 on Mar 28, 2016 21:38:32 GMT -7
You also might consider a different amp. I know it is not always possible but a Z with a master volume might be in your future. I've toyed with the idea of a lower wattage amp. Really looking at the m-12 and the Matchless SC-mini right now. Whenever I play out in rowdy bar gigs, I really think I'll miss the Ghia though. Easily the greatest amp I've ever played. I've spent a lot of time with the RX ES w/ a Master volume and I like that amp a lot (takes pedals perfectly) but when it comes down to straight power chord rawk, the Ghia is king |
|
|
|
Post by pcns on Mar 29, 2016 10:28:09 GMT -7
Greenback sounds good with the Ghia, especially a 10" Greenback. With the lower SPL it will help your volume concern a lot.
|
|
