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Post by aaron285 on Mar 16, 2016 12:37:34 GMT -7
It's time for some new tubes, and what better time to experiment a little?! What tubes add the most gain to a Ghia? I read putting two 12AX7s in the preamp can add gain and also Mullard EL84's add a little grit as well... I'm open for opinions and guidance! I've already tried the typical JJ's as well as EHX...Thanks!!!
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Post by bryan0418 on Mar 16, 2016 13:17:37 GMT -7
Replacing v2 (phase inverter) in a Ghia with a 12ax7 will give you additional gain. As for the output tubes, some tube vendors will specific early or late break up for their tubes. I would start with replacing the 5751 with a 12ax7 and see where that takes you. A Ghia isn't a high gain amp to begin with. It won't do metal-type tones
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Post by John on Mar 16, 2016 13:40:43 GMT -7
... and also Mullard EL84's add a little grit as well... This doesn't make any sense. You can't make such a wide encompassing statement (gain) about an entire company's product. It depends on the individual tube. This is like saying "Chevy's are fast cars." Some are, some aren't. |
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Post by aaron285 on Mar 16, 2016 14:22:15 GMT -7
Replacing v2 (phase inverter) in a Ghia with a 12ax7 will give you additional gain. As for the output tubes, some tube vendors will specific early or late break up for their tubes. I would start with replacing the 5751 with a 12ax7 and see where that takes you. A Ghia isn't a high gain amp to begin with. It won't do metal-type tones My intentions aren't to make the Ghia a high gain amp. I'm just simply looking for more drive without pedals, thus I'm looking into different tube options. Believe me I'm not trying to make the amp something it's not. |
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Post by aaron285 on Mar 16, 2016 14:28:01 GMT -7
... and also Mullard EL84's add a little grit as well... This doesn't make any sense. You can't make such a wide encompassing statement (gain) about an entire company's product. It depends on the individual tube. This is like saying "Chevy's are fast cars." Some are, some aren't. "Mullard EL84 - Blues guys will go crazy for the reissue Mullard EL84 tube. It has the least clean headroom and can be pushed into distortion with aggressive playing. When pushed into distortion the Mullard EL84 tube has a softer, creamier overdrive that is more musical than other EL84 tubes and is the tube to pick if you want dirt." www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Product-Reviews/EL84-Tube-ReviewI was going off this review I found online by the Tube Store. I have never used Mullards before. Sorry for the making such a "wide encompassing statement", John. Maybe your expertise can point me in the correct direction. |
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Post by John on Mar 16, 2016 15:31:35 GMT -7
I re-read what I typed. Sorry if I came off heavy handed. Didn't mean to be.
I know enough to know in the world of tubes there's folklore, superstition, claims of fairy dust and of course: hand rubbed by virgins. There's all sorts of claims that can't be quantified. And there's far too much incentive on a review, to make it more of a sales pitch. And tone is subjective. One person's 'creamy overdrive'...is another person's 'raspy brittle tone'. I've never read one of those reviews where it was negative. (What about the high failure rate??) They all use the same words over and over: Creamy...harmonic, great mids.. clear high end...smooth, aggressive...loose...balanced...etc. (It's like watching a cooking show...at the end, when they eat the food, how do you really know it tastes good?) Only YOUR ears can tell you what you like.
Every tube manufacturer..which now means only a few facilities in Russia and China..makes them for Mullard, JJ, Ruby, tung-sol, Electro Harmonix...etc. These rebrands print their name on these Russian or Chinese tubes, and sell them...trying to make people think theirs are better and different. There's just not that much difference. In my opinion, we guitar players spend WAY too much time tinkering with tubes when we should be playing.
Now there ARE tubes out there that distort earlier or later. It just depends on the individual tube. To my knowledge they don't make a batch to distort early, then the next batch to distort later. The manufacturing tolerances that currently exist are terrible, (as evidenced by the high failure rate) and it would be no stretch to understand how there can be different ratings (for distortion) of tubes without even trying.
With my healthy distrust of 'things said on the internet'...I wouldn't be a bit surprised if a place receives a crate of 5000 tubes from China..and they label 1/3 of them "for metal player...another 1/3 "for blues players"..and the final 1/3 "for country players"...without even testing them. It's just too subjective to put hard labels on them.
I guess I'm rambling. (and I can type fast) My point is, unless the individual tubes are tested, I would put little assurance that they fall in to any certain category. You'll do much better putting a 12ax7 in v2 for your first step. That difference will do more to get more gain than messing around with different power tubes.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Mar 16, 2016 18:10:23 GMT -7
Not so big on fairy dust, but I like the hand rubbed by virgins thing.
Seriously, something else you might consider is using a lower efficiency speaker. That way you'll drive the amp harder for the same volume. I really like the way that the Ghia breaks up with a g10 greenback. I think it's 95dB. Also the 10" gold is really sweet at 98dB. A lot of guys run those in their CG's and they really do sound sweet.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Mar 16, 2016 18:48:44 GMT -7
...they don't make a batch to distort early, then the next batch to distort later. The manufacturing tolerances that currently exist are terrible, (as evidenced by the high failure rate) and it would be no stretch to understand how there can be different ratings (for distortion) of tubes without even trying. Not to distract from Aaron's original question, but John's statement here ^ has got to be totally true. In fact, computer processor speeds (in MHz, GHz, etc.) get "rated" this same way. Oh sure, of course they intend to build all of them to be fast; but the ones that test more slowly get a label as if they "meant to" build it for that speed, and then they're priced accordingly. Aaron, I do know a bit about tubes, but I'm sorry that I can't help much here specifically. But the best advice I can give is to stick with a reputable, trusted tube dealer who will stand behind their claims. Over in the "Amplifier Accessories > Tubes" section of this forum you'll likely see the same dealers' names repeated over and over again (KCA NOS Tubes, Doug's Tubes, Tube Depot, The Tube Store, etc.). You're likely to be most satisfied after dealing through one of them. |
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Post by jhanks on Mar 19, 2016 6:28:21 GMT -7
I tried the 12ax7 in V1 and V2 thing and various power tubes. I could not get the crunch/gain sound I was after with just those options. Also thought that the original 5751 in V2 layout just sounded better to me. Tried the Greenback 10 and Gold 10. I really like both. Greenback will let you run the amp hotter at the same volumes and roll off some highs, but I currently use the Gold 10 to cut better in a loud 5 piece alt/rock/country band. After many changes I ended up with a CG25thAnni with a NOS RFT 12ax7 in V1, stock 5751 in V2, TAD-STR el84s and stock 5Y3. I play a tele and use a Timmy for the crunch.
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