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Post by ruger9 on Nov 24, 2007 8:03:35 GMT -7
OK, first off, I have the Rx JR, not the RXES. So, going from there...
For those who have owned both the Stang & Rx (ES/JR)... does the Stang seem to have more "girth" to it? Or maybe could be described as a little "warmer" or more mids? Because the RxJR, TO ME, actually seems to have a bit of a scooped-mid profile compared to other EL84 amps I've played. And the mid control doesn't seem to fatten the sound much (low-mids) like most mid controls, but seems instead to really dial in High mids, and therefore doesn't really fatten the sound much.
I love the tone, touch, and fell of the RxJR, but I do wish I could get some more mids once in awhile. I know there are other differences in the 2 amps (EF86 preamp in the Stang, more gain in the Rx, etc), but was just wondering about the girth/warmth/mids of the two.
Listening to umpteen soundclips, the Stang sounds a little warmer/rounder to me, with the Rx being a little more cutting & aggressive?
Also, I know speakers play a huge roll in this, keep in mind I'm playing the RxJR thru the same cab as my other main amp- a Genz Benz Black Pearl 30 (Eminence Red Fang), and it has plenty of mids/warmth, so the speaker is kind of taken out of the equation on this one...
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Post by Bill on Nov 24, 2007 16:42:07 GMT -7
For those who have owned both the Stang & Rx (ES/JR)... does the Stang seem to have more "girth" to it? I've owned both, and IMHO.... ;D....the Stang Ray is capable of more girth than any other Z (disclaimer-I haven't tried a KT45 or Delta 88). I've read suggestions the Rt66 is king of bottom and girth, I have to respectfully disagree...as I've also owned the 66. If you simply roll the tone knob to about 3:00, the Ray is very, very fat and thick and has a thunderous bottom with 2x12's. It however, is a very clean amp...almost no drive on it's own. You'll definitely need pedals to get decent drive going. I use an RC , BB, and Keeley comp, all great with the Ray.
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Post by telejas on Dec 2, 2007 18:23:01 GMT -7
the Stang sounds a little warmer/rounder to me, with the Rx being a little more cutting & aggressive? .. I've owned both, and that about nails it... The Ray is smoother and rounder sounding. The RxES can be more aggressive...... but as far as mids, I felt the RxES had a stronger mid range than the Ray. If you're wanting a clean amp, nothing beats a Stangray..... plus the Ray takes pedals as well as any other Z. I obivously like the Ray better and ended up trading the RxES off.... not that the RxES was a bad amp, but the Ray is what "tickled my fancy" and the tone I've been after for YEARS!!
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Post by Jones'n for Tone on Dec 2, 2007 20:09:17 GMT -7
For what it's worth.... I have a Stangray and an RxES. If I run them thru the same speakers, the biggest differences between the two are 1) RxES has more drive and 2) Stangray can be warmer sounding. No matter how I tweek the RxES I can't get it to sound as warm as the ray. Of the two my favorite amp is the Stangray. Theres just something about the tone that does it for me ( I think it may be the warmth). Gainwise, although the RxES has a lot more gain on tap, the Stangray to me does have enough gain for most old school classic rock (particularly w/humbuckers or hot single coils). It certainly won't do metal though ( but then again I don't do metal so well either).
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Post by aj1169 on Dec 2, 2007 21:35:04 GMT -7
I've owned both and still have the RxES. To me, the Ray is a rounder sound overall. It also has more low end thump than any other amp in its category. The RxES seems more aggressive and punchy, with alot more gain available if you want it. I was able to get just as nice of clean tone from the RxES, however it is a different sound compared to the Ray. They are very different amps in my book, and both are superb instruments. It all boils down to what you're looking for.
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Post by ruger9 on Dec 3, 2007 4:33:09 GMT -7
Well, since I'm feeling that my RxJR is actually LACKING mids, I'm now thinking it's the speaker... I'm running it thru an Eminence Red Fang, which sounds fantastic with my Genz Benz Black Pearl, but maybe it's time to try a Blue w/RxJR and see what that does... from reviews I've read on here, while the Fang is a very good alnico speaker, it seems to be thought of as the "thinnest" of the bunch (blue, gold, weber blue).
And when I say "lacking mids", what I mean is, the mid control on this amp doesn't act like the mid control on my other amps, which I use to fatten up my tele. The mid knob doesn't fatten- it adds high mids, if anything, almost as if it's a mid-TREBLE control. But like I said, maybe it's the speaker. Which is why I was asking about the Stang- it seems to be fuller, warmer, and to me that translates into (at least slightly) more mids. I would miss the drive of the RxJR tho...
...a new speaker...
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Post by guitarstan on Dec 3, 2007 5:32:55 GMT -7
(blue, gold, weber blue). ...a new speaker... I think this would be a safe bet, also keep in mind the cabinet's contribution to the equation. I've heard Benttop say it over and over ...." everything matters".
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Post by Jones'n for Tone on Dec 3, 2007 9:08:26 GMT -7
And when I say "lacking mids", what I mean is, the mid control on this amp doesn't act like the mid control on my other amps, which I use to fatten up my tele. The mid knob doesn't fatten- it adds high mids, if anything, almost as if it's a mid-TREBLE control. But like I said, maybe it's the speaker. Which is why I was asking about the Stang- it seems to be fuller, warmer, and to me that translates into (at least slightly) more mids. I would miss the drive of the RxJR tho... ...a new speaker... a new speaker may warm up your jr, but I'm pretty sure it won't make the mid control do what you want. I have 2 celestion blues in a 2x12 cab and my RxES mid control does exactly what you have described. The stangray thru the same cab however has incredible warmth as you turn up the tone pot.
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Post by kruzty on Dec 3, 2007 9:25:17 GMT -7
I think the standard speaker for the combo is the Greenback. I'm guessing Doc chose it for a reason - have you tried one of those? I have one in my Z Best, but it is paired with a G12H30, so I can't tell you exactly what it will sound like.
I can tell you that I do like the Rx Jr with my Weber 50w Blue Dog.
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Post by Jones'n for Tone on Dec 3, 2007 20:32:35 GMT -7
This thread has me thinking.... I wonder if you could change the value of the mid pot to fatten up the RxES?
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Post by ruger9 on Dec 4, 2007 4:41:15 GMT -7
That's the first thing I thought, but then immediatley thought NO - I've done the modding thing, to amps & pedals, and in the end, it's usually not worth it. If I decide the RxJR isn't for me, it's just not for me, and I'll have to check out another Z...may have to wait for the Z-Wreck, if the Doc ever decides to make them. The Stangray would be perfect IF it had the gain capability of the Rx. I see now why Brad liked using 1 RXES and 1 Stang. They compliment each other well. If the mid control on my RxJR worked like a "normal mid control" (actually adding mids, including low-mids especially), I think my amp search would probably be over. It's a great amp, simple yet versatile, plenty of gain (for me), takes attenuation well, and loud enough to gig (those are "Z Watts!). I love the thing, but I needs me some more mids. Or warmth. Or whatever you want to call it. I know the Webers darken the tone, which is what I'm looking for- a tone similar to the Paisley RXES clip on the website. So I was thinking Weber 50W Alnico Blue. (I only have a 1x12 cab) Bluzman here told me he thing the Weber 50W would have too much bottom for the Jr- overwhelming, and recommended the 30W instead. I know alot of people are digging the Gold, and the 50W Weber appears to be very similar to the Gold, which is why that's what I'm thinking. This should be in the RxJR forum at this point, I guess...
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Post by drew on Dec 18, 2007 10:13:59 GMT -7
The speaker experiment is fun to try and is less expensive that amp swaping. And that, dang I wish I still had that xxx amp is so painful! I've a well broken in weber 50W alnico blue dog and is probably my fab speaker. I use it in a 1x12 cab. However, I recently picked up a weber silver bell ceramic and like it's immediate midrange punch. Maybe a 30 watt ceramic silver bell could be in your Christmas stocking??? I have a 25 watt amp which I prefer the silver bell over the alnico becuase of the attack. I don't know if it will help your midrange quest but it's a great speaker and you could probably trade or sell it easily if you don't like it.
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Post by DRZ on Dec 18, 2007 14:31:56 GMT -7
If the mid control on my RxJR worked like a "normal mid control" (actually adding mids, including low-mids especially), I think my amp search would probably be over. It's a great amp, simple yet versatile, plenty of gain (for me), takes attenuation well, and loud enough to gig (those are "Z Watts!). I love the thing, but I needs me some more mids. Or warmth. Or whatever you want to call it.
Not sure what your hearing but all the RX JR's I have sent have a nice sweeping Mid control, and are warm to most ears. Maybe your's has a problem just sent it back and let me hear it maybe something isn't right.
DR.Z
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Post by bluzman on Dec 18, 2007 15:46:27 GMT -7
ruger9... I used a Weber AlNiCo 30W Silver Bell the past two weekends with my RxJr and I like it more than the 50W... But that is me. I have plenty of mids... more than enough bottom and good highs.
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Post by ruger9 on Dec 18, 2007 15:51:15 GMT -7
Not sure what your hearing but all the RX JR's I have sent have a nice sweeping Mid control, and are warm to most ears. Maybe your's has a problem just sent it back and let me hear it maybe something isn't right. DR.Z Thanks Doc! I'm seriously thinking it's the speaker (a Red Fang), and I've been wanting to get a cab for the RxJR anyway, so I'll go ahead & get a cab with a Weber blue or Cele gold in it, then get back to you. From all the speaker opinions I've read on here, the Red Fang is the LEAST warm (and least popular) of the alnicos. Seems everybody prefers the Webers or Celes.
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Post by dock66 on Dec 19, 2007 9:24:13 GMT -7
Can't go wrong with Weber or Celestion. C-Gold sounds awesome with RxJr.
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Post by Hohn on Jan 2, 2008 20:30:21 GMT -7
I'd encourage you to try a Blue Dog or Celestion Blue if at all possible before you write off the RxJR.
My Stang is an incredible amp, but without those Blues, it's a little like Sonny without Cher; Beavis without Butthead, Ren without Stimpy:). They are just meant to go together.
Another contender I think deserves consideration is the Tone Tubby. A little pricey (about the same as a Blue), but for sheet "alniconess" the Tone Tubby really deserves consideration. If nothing else, you could easily sell it for little to no loss, or so I hear.
JMO
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Post by telejas on Jan 2, 2008 22:02:00 GMT -7
Not sure what your hearing but all the RX JR's I have sent have a nice sweeping Mid control, and are warm to most ears. Maybe your's has a problem just sent it back and let me hear it maybe something isn't right. DR.Z Thanks Doc! I'm seriously thinking it's the speaker (a Red Fang), and I've been wanting to get a cab for the RxJR anyway, so I'll go ahead & get a cab with a Weber blue or Cele gold in it, then get back to you. From all the speaker opinions I've read on here, the Red Fang is the LEAST warm (and least popular) of the alnicos. Seems everybody prefers the Webers or Celes. I personally love my Red Fang in my Mazerati...... And I had one in a Classic 30 of a friends of mine, and he's now looking at buying one..... but if I had my choice, I'd pick a weber alnico blue simply because of the reputation.. and they sound fantastic!
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Post by ruger9 on Jan 3, 2008 6:34:50 GMT -7
The Red Fang sounds GREAT in my Black Pearl. Jeff Genzler did a blindfolded speaker listening test when picking out the speaker for the BP, and the Fang won, by EAR ALONE, supposedly. It is a great match for the BP, just not so much so for the RxJR (at least in my case.)
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Post by azatplayer on Jan 21, 2008 3:11:15 GMT -7
My RX es simply smokes thru 2 greenbacks. very full mids. Wicked tone.
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Post by ruger9 on Jan 21, 2008 7:06:44 GMT -7
yeah, I've heard that the GB is actually Doc's fave speaker with this amp...
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