Another tube/speaker question...

[cpcs15]

Hey guys, new Ghia owner here! I've been searching around, looking for answers to the questions I have but I haven't found exactly what I'm looking for. I would also like some input from those of you who have played the Ghia longer than I have. The one I have aquired is an earlier one, around the '00s I believe.

First off, I would like to put some new tunes in, mainly preamp. Right now I'm not getting the headroom I would like (starting to break up around 10-11 o'clock). It could be that I'm used to playing old Fenders. I haven't been able got the country spankin' clean I like, but I do like how I can get the verge of break up out of the Ghia! Here's how the tubes currently sit:

V1 ECC 83S
V2 sovtek 7025/12ax7wa
V3 JJ EL84
V4 JJ EL84
V5 RCA 5Y3 OT OR CT?

From what I've read, putting a 5751 in the V1 spot could help me achieve a little more head room. Also, everything seems to point to putting in NOS tubes, but I have no idea which would be best (and wouldn't totally break the bank). I would also like to replace V2 because I know the Sovtek is far from being a quality tube, but I also have limited experience on which brands. I wouldn't be against replacing V3-V5. I have a new set of JJs that the previous owner gave me, and V5 is already a NOS but would there be better tubes to help me achieve what I'm after?

For speakers, I'm using a WGS ET65 and Vet30, wired at 16 ohm. I feel like I'm doing the Ghia an injustice by not running it at 8ohm (I'm assuming it can't handle 4 ohm but there are no markings on the back). I know from previous experiences that I must be loosing some amount of headroom/tone from the amp by not running it at the correct load. From all the reading I've done, everyone seems to be pointing to the Alnico Blue or possibly the Red Fang as excellent, highly efficient speakers to get the most out of the Ghia. However, given the price point for both, I'm not really wanting to spend that much for two new speakers. I've seen where some have been pleased with using the ET65, but are there other, slightly cheaper options, that I may be over looking?

Thanks for the help!

[John]

You have a Ghia from a period in time where they broke up much earlier. The newer ones (like my 2011 model) are made to break up a bit later. But don't be sad, a lot of people like those early Ghias!

If you're looking for cleaner headroom, I would consider a 5751 in BOTH V1 and V2. NOS would be best as any new 5751 is just a 12ax7 that didn't make the grade.

I think some others on the forum can provide better info: I think running 16 ohms in an 8 ohm jack will cause a volume loss?

Both a V30 and a blue are 100db speakers (very efficient and loud) And both are very popular with Ghia owners. Although I'm not too familiar with Eminence speakers, I do know that they are also rather efficient. (as a brand)

I'd try your Vet 30 by itself. (if it's 8 ohms)

[Mark (Basement Enthusiast)]

Welcome to the forum, cpcs15! John's pretty much on-target with what he says above. Those older Ghia's (at least to my ears, and apparently John's too) are a little softer & break up sooner--I have an older one, too, and I love it because of that breakup character. But yes, there are some "tricks" you can employ to get some more volume/headroom out of it.

First of all, check out what the Doc himself says about the topic here (you're not the first one to ask this question, and you probably won't be the last either). In any case, I definitely recommend an NOS 5751 in V2, pretty much always for the Ghia. The same tube in V1 would also sort of knock-down the gain a bit. You also mentioned that your amp is/was used(?). Do you know how many hours are on those EL84's? If you don't know and/or it's been a while, a new set of JJ EL84's (they're a well-liked brand, especially by Doc) might breathe some new life back into the amp. And finally, just like Doc suggests in the link above, swapping your rectifier tube (V5) to a 5V4 type will kick things up a notch in power (NOS is probably best, here, too--shouldn't be terribly pricey). Among all this, too.. if you have questions about NOS or anything tube-related, contact Mike @ KCA NOS Tubes.

Now, regarding your speaker selection, as John mentioned I think you might be robbing yourself of output power by running the 8-ohm output of the amp into a 16-ohm speaker combination. Sure it's pretty much "safe" to do, but I think the amp will be running louder at 8 ohms. The ET65 isn't that "loud" of a speaker, so instead I would try the Veteran 30 alone or one of the suggested Eminence brand alternatives. The Eminence Wizard and the Tonker are both downright LOUD speakers, and both exhibit some nice clean/British characteristics. I'd be kinda interested in hearing the Ghia/Tonker combination myself, probably great for clean/twangy country.

Hope this helps! I just wanted to get out some ideas that popped into my head while reading your post...

[cpcs15]

Thanks for the kind words and help so far! I did disconnect the speakers tonight and tried them separately and as suspected, it did improve my headroom. I suppose my real question to that was could the Ghia handle 4 ohm since it isn't specified on the back.

Basemententhusiast, I too like the breakup characteristic the Ghia has, it's been great so far, just a little too soon for my liking. I've wanted a Z for years, especially a Mazerati, but considering they're so rare, the Ghia seemed to be the next local choice. I did read the thread from the Doc, but in all my research, I guess I lost it in the shuffle. The amp is used, and I'm not sure how many hours are on the power tubes. The previous owner did include another set of JJ, so I'll throw those in and see if there is any difference. He did tell me there were many hours on one set, but I can't remember if it was the pre or power tubes. Do you yourself have a preference to brands of NOS tubes in all positions?

Thank you for the speaker suggestions! I'll look more into the Wizard and Tonker.

[meanslide]

Welcome cpcs15! I too have an early version Ghia. I just took the good Dr's advice on that tube swap for more headroom. The effect was immediate and did exactly what he said it would. Well worth the minimal effort to add some extra clean to the CG.

I went with -

V1) ANOS RCA Blackplate 5751
V2) Tung-Sol 12AX7
V3-4) JJ EL-84's
V5) NOS Sylvania 5V4GA

My Ghia is an '02 and has both 8 and 4 ohm tap on the back. Does yours have two output jacks on it and it's just missing the plaque that labels them?

[John]

Oct 12, 2015 20:44:53 GMT -7 cpcs15 said:

 I suppose my real question to that was could the Ghia handle 4 ohm since it isn't specified on the back.

If your Ghia only has one jack on the back...it's 8 ohms.  Use an 8 ohm speaker.

[cpcs15]

Thanks for the help! I have some NOS preamp and rectifier tubes coming, hopefully to be here by the end of the week! I'll post back when I get them and get a chance to test them out. So far, running the Vet 30 by itself has yielded more head room. the ET65 alone helped also, but the Vet 30 has just a little more. I'm still debating a speaker change, but I'm going to wait until the new tubes arrive and then go from there.

[eggman]

Howdy,

Congrats on your new Carmen Ghia! I'll share with you my favorite speakers: Celestion blue and Weber AlniCo silver bell. The 'Blue is great for 'Stones type tones, while the Silver Bell's strength is it's gorgeous clean tones. Both speakers can get raunchy, though. Enjoy!

[cpcs15]

*UPDATE*

So I wanted to give an update now that I've had some time to spend with the new tubes that I put in. Here's what I went with: NOS JAN GE 5751
NOS Sylvania 5V4GA
ANOS RCA 12ax7a

Compared to the tubes I had in it before, it did give me more headroom. With the new set up, it seems to have given me the little extra headroom I was looking for and slightly improved the tone of the amp. Before the swap, the amp was breaking up around 10:30, 11 o'clock but just barely breaking up. Now I've been able to go up to about noon before any kind of break up occurs. I also replaced the power tubes with another set of JJs, but I'm not really sure if they made any difference. Right now I'm still only running the WGS Retro 30 by itself in my Avatar 2x12 cab until I figure out what I would like to do speaker wise. I'm contemplating on getting two Retro 30s running at 8 ohm because it seems to fit nicely. I can get a clean, but still dig in and get a little breakup. However, the jury is still out on that matter.