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Post by npenn79 on Jul 29, 2014 6:06:07 GMT -7
This is my first post to this forum, from what I've read on other threads everyone gives good advice so here it goes.. I've had my Carmen Ghia for about a year and a half and just haven't bonded with it the way I feel that I should. The head is stock with a dr Z 1x12 cab, speaker is a celestion g12m greenback.
My biggest problem is the way it sounds cranked. I don't like it, harsh is the word that comes to mind. However, with the volume at 0900 and tone at noon the clean is great and I can use pedals for dirt. I just didn't want to use pedals for all of my overdriven tones. If that was the case I would have gotten a fender DRRI (which I'm not putting down, it's a great amp).
I want to like this amp.. I want to turn it up, get nice dirt, roll back my guitar volume for a cleaner sound, boost it with a tube driver or fuzz face... I feel like I'm doing something wrong. Maybe I'm running it through the wrong speaker maybe I need to swap tubes. I did a lot of research before I bought this amp. I didn't actually play it before I bought it as there are no Z dealers anywhere close to me.
Any advice is welcome.
Thanks
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Jul 29, 2014 6:11:23 GMT -7
Welcome to the Forum - lot of good info and great people here. Did you purchase the amp new or used? How old is it if used? Could be the tubes need to be replaced.
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Post by BritInvasion on Jul 29, 2014 6:27:04 GMT -7
You might want to try TAD EL84STR power tubes , I've used 'em to take away harshness in the top end , really smooths things out. In V1 I liked Ruby 12AX7HG5 and HG7's , and the Tung Sol 12AX7 is pretty nice.
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Post by mfirst on Jul 29, 2014 6:43:30 GMT -7
Have you tried any other speakers? Tubes may help change the tone slightly, but speakers make big differences in tone. The greenback is a great speaker. I use them a lot these days, but maybe it's not for you. The ghia is a cool amp in that everything you change around the amp will be heard. If you swap speakers, tubes, guitars... the ghia will give you a clear picture of what changed in the tone. I'd swap a couple of things in the chain and see if you can get to a tone that speaks to you. I know you mentioned noon on the tone setting, which is a great spot, but don't be afraid to set it in spots you wouldn't think would work. For instance, my CG combo has a V30. It is one of my favorite amps. When I have the amp cranked up I find that I have to crank down the tone knob. It usually runs somewhere around 9:00-10:00 when the volume is 2:00 or higher. A lot of that setting compensates for the V30 having a strong midrange, but it's still a setting that I wouldn't have thought of had I not let me ears to the walking while adjusting the knobs.
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Post by Ridgeback on Jul 29, 2014 6:49:44 GMT -7
The Ghia was the most responsive amp to tube changes that I ever owned but OD tones are a very personal preference. Tube changes may, or may not get you what you are looking for. Good luck.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Jul 29, 2014 6:57:04 GMT -7
If you're fairly comfortable swapping preamp tubes, take a look and see what's in the "V2" spot. The Ghia was designed to have a somewhat lower-output 5751-type tube in that spot but, likely due to reliability/availability of quality tubes, many of them come with a (higher-output) 12AX7 in there.
I'm currently on my 3rd Ghia. Like you, I couldn't bond with it most of the time--"harsh" was pretty much my complaint, too. Until, that is, on my current one, I put a nice high-quality NOS 5751 tube in V2 and it felt so much better. These tubes are generally gonna be around $40 because you'll want the NOS variety, not new-production, but in my case it was well worth it.
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Post by doctorice on Jul 29, 2014 7:14:09 GMT -7
^^^
What Mark said. Bought my Ghia used and V2 was broken in transit. I got a NOS 5751 and haven't looked back. Amp sounds great clean and pushed.
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Post by kustom250 on Jul 29, 2014 7:25:21 GMT -7
^^^^^
I'd third that.
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Post by John on Jul 29, 2014 7:28:44 GMT -7
I'll just summarize what's been said above:
1) Change your power tubes. Even though they work, they loose their tone after a while. They should be changed regularly, like changing oil in a car.
2) Experiment with a few different preamp tubes if you have them. It can take years (decades) for them to loose their tone or go bad, so don't worry if they're old. A 5751 in V2 would be a good suggestion. Any 12ax7 you have laying around would be a good choice to try in V1. But I'd really go after that 5751 in V2.
3) Change speakers. This is a big factor. You stated the amp is a head. Try as many different cabs/speakers as you can. Also, a cabinet being open backed...or closed back can also have a huge difference in tone. Personally, I would find someone with a well broken in Vintage 30 (V30), and give that a try. Very different speaker than the greenback. (if you can, make sure the V30 is well broken in, they sound like crap when new) Also, if you could find someone with a G12-65. (or a clone, such as the WGS ET-65) These speakers are close to a greenback, but they have a large dustcover, which helps to curb 'harshness'.
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Jul 29, 2014 8:30:35 GMT -7
My ghia has a NOS 5751 I picked up from KCA. Power tubes are TAD EL84STR as also was posted. The ECC83S I believe is a Dynaco marked West Germany. I also play it primarily into a M65 creamback in a church setting. Typically this is a cleaner sound. At home I play into a Z 2x10 convertible. The Ghia has an aggressive edge in the 2x10 and also in my Z-Best cab. In the creamback 1x12 I made the mistake one day of having the amp at 2:00. When I fired up, there was a bunch of gain, but it was smoother to my ear than the other cabinets. I took the volume down quickly as appropriate to time and place.
Having said all that is just to say that in the case of the Ghia many things can effect the tone. Similarly the old adage YMMV applies as tastes and ears differ. I tend to lean to a cleaner sound with a hint of dirt and very rarely venture to the area of distortion/fuzz. Very different from my days in the Marshall Plexi at 2:00 where I used to reside.
By way of comparison; to my ears the Ghia is more aggressive than my Maz Jr. My RT66 is much warmer, smoother, and more dimensional than my Ghia.
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Post by npenn79 on Jul 29, 2014 8:46:11 GMT -7
I knew I had come to the right place. Big thanks to everyone!!! Great advice all around!! Now it seems I have some work to do..
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Jul 29, 2014 9:07:08 GMT -7
Check what is in V1 too. If it's a jj, they tend to be harsh with an upper mid spike. Some folks do love them. Try something else like a sovtec or tungsol. Also only make one change at a time so you know what had an effect and what it did.
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Post by simpleton on Jul 29, 2014 9:12:38 GMT -7
The speaker change for me from the Z 10's to the Eminence Legend 10's was one thing that helped me feel more love toward the cranked tones. Usually I run my settings
V= 10-12
T=12-2:30
Smile ensues. I've ALWAYS had the 5751 in V2 and wouldn't change it out for a 12AX7. In the years prior to Z amps I NEVER EVER thought about speakers or tubes...honestly it didn't really seem important for some reason with the other companies, BUT my Ghia really helped me to understand those features better because she responded so well to them.
Hope you find what you want and WELCOME!
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Post by digs57 on Jul 29, 2014 19:12:26 GMT -7
Ok...here comes the devil...cant be afraid to scrap if it aint right...I had 1/10 and like some of you found it harsh... w/tele and couldn't take it...Les paul was right fit with it!...finding your right tone can be challenging and time consuming and expensive.
Rather than remake the amp and replace everything I settled on maz 18/tele = ding,ding,ding match made in heaven...really wanted to love that little amp though.
I hope you can get it to work for you...lots of other choices in z line. |
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Post by LuckyBlackCat on Jul 29, 2014 19:38:18 GMT -7
I agree with digs57. By all means, experiment with tubes and speakers if you can and want to. Maybe you'll find the magic combination for you.
But don't just assume that because it's "THE GHIA" that you have to like it or it's the amp for you. After playing the Maz 18 and Mini Z for a few years, I had an opportunity to pick up a Ghia, thinking that I would love it because of everything I'd read. Well I loved the semi cleans but could not for the life of me get a good overdrive sound with my strat neck pickup. I thought I was insane...how could I not like the Ghia?!
It's ok if you don't, you won't be shunned!
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Post by Brimstone on Jul 30, 2014 5:46:31 GMT -7
The Ghia really pairs well with P-90's too. Experiment.
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Post by ericatunc on Jul 30, 2014 6:59:01 GMT -7
I didn't bond with mine until I got the Gold, and paired that with the doc's 2x10. Now I have to 1x12s with creambacks and feel the brittle and harshness, will wait for those speakers to break in before I decide my next step. Some good ideas on this thread, might have to try some of them out!
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Post by npenn79 on Jul 30, 2014 14:35:32 GMT -7
LuckyBlackCat, and digs57, you may both be on to something. I do feel that I need to like it simply because it's the ghia. After seeing that others have some the same issues I wonder if the maz18, or Moza may be a better fit.
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Post by zed on Jul 30, 2014 15:00:06 GMT -7
My CG head came with a matching Zbest cab and a V30 in it, sounds wonderful.
I also agree with the sentiments above, as the volume comes up, the tone knob goes down.
I love my Ghia!
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Post by GuitarZ on Jul 31, 2014 12:32:02 GMT -7
I was using mine for recording and loved it cranked. When I started using it for rehearsals, it was a little harsh for me. I can't remember whether I already had a Tone Tubby or got one to try (because I always wanted one). It was a great match for me since it is a little darker than a greenback or v30. Of course, if you don't have a bunch of different speakers lying around, it's tough to hear the differences. The Maz Jr is definitely smoother.
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Post by Don on Jul 31, 2014 15:13:34 GMT -7
Try a Celestion Blue and be prepared to be blown away! Pure tone with a Ghia.
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 31, 2014 16:44:41 GMT -7
Try a Celestion Blue and be prepared to be blown away! Pure tone with a Ghia. This is true. I never would have tried it if it hadn't been in the used combo I purchased. Everyone should experience a Ghia with a blue. I always thought of the blue as a way too bright speaker for my tastes and never liked it unless it was paired with something else. This blue is very well broken in mind you, but it has completely changed my perception of both the ghia and the blue. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards |
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Post by Ridgeback on Jul 31, 2014 16:44:44 GMT -7
Try a Celestion Blue and be prepared to be blown away! Pure tone with a Ghia. That is a good match alright. Except for the 1x12 Gold, which sounds better to me than the Blue under any circumstances, I liked the Ghia best with the Blue. I had my Ghia head for about 5 years and my only two problems with it were 1) the tone control only seemed useful in a very small range between 11:00 and 1:00 and b) I burned out on the EL-84 sound (not the amp's fault). Stick with it for a while. In the end, it may not wind up being "the" amp for you but you have plenty of things to try before giving up on a great amp. |
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Post by southmusic70 on Aug 1, 2014 17:55:23 GMT -7
Guys,
I was just sort of surfing the forum and saw this discussion. It's excellent and what I think the forum is all about: nobody's right or wrong, and it all gets laid out to be considered.
I don't play a Ghia, but I do play a Rati v2 which has a tone control sort of like the Ghia (I'm told). I find that with my tele or strat, a nice fullness is available with this control set around noon, whereas with humbuckers I get a good sound at 10 or 11 o'clock.
Keep talking!
South
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51d
Junior Member
Posts: 95 
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Post by 51d on Aug 2, 2014 13:39:55 GMT -7
Well, talking of issues with bonding, I had a Maz 8 Studio with a Celestion Blue which was in the house (and out of it) within 6 weeks. Interestingly, the new owner turned it round just as fast... I'd read the reviews, diligently watched the YouTube clips etc. - but it didn't move me. However, I do love my Ghia, although I like it much more with a) the NOS 5751 in V2 b) the WGS G10A alnico speaker that replaced a Weber Blue Pup and c) the TAD EL84STRs referred to elsewhere that ousted a set of JJs (definitely not my EL84 of choice).
My view then is that if the '9 o'clock plus' overdrive tones aren't connecting with you, don't feel bad, just try another amp - or better still, try all the finessing of components everyone's already offered - and then try/buy another amp. Even when we're really happy (a relative term for guitarists) with our tone, there are always days when we want/need something different. The Ghia offers a lot of tone and great accessibility to it, but the key for me is appreciating how powerful the tone control is; this seems to especially be the case when the gain is on the upside of halfway...
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Post by sonicboom on Aug 4, 2014 8:05:46 GMT -7
Not bonding → sell it.
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Post by npenn79 on Aug 5, 2014 7:15:42 GMT -7
I've seriously considered selling... Hell, it's up on eBay, reverb, and Craigslist now. I had a bite about a month ago and a pretty decent offer for a trade last week, both of which I declined. I just can't part with it. A - because I really don't want to take a loss, B - I really believe there's potential in that little amp...
I think I'm going to gradually change tubes, and maybe the speaker down the road. I bought it new in '13 so it has the current 2012 tube lineup. Based on the great advice here, and some research I think I'm gonna begin with the tad el84's.
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Post by freddieg on Aug 5, 2014 9:52:25 GMT -7
What speaker do you have in it now?
A higher efficiency speaker will help "extend" the clean range a little bit on the Ghia volume knob.
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Post by meanslide on Aug 5, 2014 10:41:49 GMT -7
What speaker do you have in it now? A higher efficiency speaker will help "extend" the clean range a little bit on the Ghia volume knob. OP stated it is a Greenback. Try an Alnico speaker in that cab. The C Blue is good for country and such but was too flabby when cranked (for me). I switched to a Tone Tubby Alnico and BAM! glorious breakup, no harshness, big bottom end, no flab. The GB is rated at 97dB whereas the TT is 100dB. That will make it noticeably louder and as stated above, extend the clean range a bit. Others I tried were a Greenback, a C Blue, Z 2X10, Z-Best, Z 1X10, Z 4X10. YMMV but the TT is a great match with the CG. |
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Post by npenn79 on Aug 5, 2014 13:40:01 GMT -7
Meanslide, I was looking at the tone tubby pretty hard, your talking about the red one, right?
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