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Post by skinvoyager on Mar 10, 2014 8:53:06 GMT -7
I put the Z-28 combo (Greenback) through its first two gigs Friday and Saturday night. I have to say I think I've found my amp. It's been quite the struggle for me. I get my OD from pedals, so I want a clean platform. I tried NUMEROUS amps from 65 Amps, Bad Cat, Alessandro, Fender, Bogner, and Dr. Z. I thought the M12 would be perfect, and I used it for over a year. It was good but it wasn't great. The tone was there but the feel and response wasn't...for me it was just too sterile. I actually had better luck with the Maz 18, but it seemed a bit harsh and brittle. Not too bad, but enough for me to think I could do better. What I loved about the Z-28 this past weekend was the feel. There was an immediacy in the response, and a dynamic quality that was soft when I was soft, and more aggressive when I dug in. Clean funk chords popped out (but never too strident), and my low-, medium- and high-gain pedals melted into the tone of the amp and didn't sound like pedals at all. With all tones the sound was very woody. I like being able to hear my fingers move across the strings and get those percussive elements that are not part of the note but a huge part of the sound. I play Strats exclusively. Most have Dimarzio Are series pickups in the neck and middle, and Seymour Duncan JB Jrs in the bridge. I have one guitar with Fralin noiseless P-90s (my avatar pic) and it sounded great, but I liked the others better. I only turned up one time, and even then my volume never got past 10:30 (we mic, and it was plenty loud). I'm really not sure why anyone would not be able to get enough headroom from this amp, unless you're playing an outdoor gig with the guitar out of the mix. I think for me the 6V6 power was the key. I think they're the perfect middle ground between EL84 and 6L6. I never had much luck with EL34 amps (always too punchy and stiff). Very happy. I can't say I'll never buy another amp, but I won't sell this one.
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Post by southmusic70 on Mar 10, 2014 9:44:48 GMT -7
From what you're saying, this may be the only amp you need, which doesn't mean anything to a lot of the people here, since they have more than one Z (I have 4 of them, for example).
Sounds to me like you should try a Route 66; it's nice and thick.
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Post by markT on Mar 10, 2014 10:55:08 GMT -7
The Z28 is a wonderful amplifier!
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Post by skinvoyager on Mar 10, 2014 12:16:23 GMT -7
From what you're saying, this may be the only amp you need, which doesn't mean anything to a lot of the people here, since they have more than one Z (I have 4 of them, for example). Sounds to me like you should try a Route 66; it's nice and thick. The Rt. 66 was my first Z the year it came out. I liked it but it didn't get a fair chance...my sense of tone wasn't as refined at the time I wonder if it might be too much firepower me, and too similar to the Z-28? If I get another Z, I want something different...maybe the EZG-50? But the 66 could be fun.
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Post by southmusic70 on Mar 10, 2014 14:17:19 GMT -7
Skin,
I dont't know what kind of music(s) you play (and since my Z amps have become somewhat "guitar-specific" - although all of the guitars sound good with all of the amps), the big glass Zs that I know of are really full, really sonically complete, but some of the others - 4 6v6, 4 el84 - can be pretty stout, too. My amp in this latter category is a Rati v2, which is my go-to amp for louder venues; let me just say that the "tone" control of this amp is something I consider to be a work of art. Unlike some of the guys here, I judge an amp on its clean tones and sonic quality (not necessarily amount) of headroom, since I get a lot of calls for clean playing, straight through w/ maybe just a volume boost, and that's what I use my KT45 for, unless I get a really loud call and put effects in front of it. Same with the Route, but with different guitars. What I'm saying is that it's good to narrow down what you think you need by tube type/output/controls, but don't hem yourself in with any pre-conceived ideas about things. Dr Z does things with components that are atypical and you can get atypical results out of his amps. I mean, how many jazz players run their archtops through an amp with EL34 power tubes? I do, and it works pretty well.
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Post by nmz on Mar 10, 2014 15:13:21 GMT -7
Glad it worked out for you, the ef-86 is a cool thing once you get use to it. I really think that it is the M12 of big bottle Z's if you want it to be (b&t below 12). Only time I thought the headroom was starting to disappear was an outdoor gig. But even that was really nice!
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Mar 11, 2014 2:27:45 GMT -7
Congrats! To be honest, I don't know why the M12 exists - as far as I can tell, the Z28 is the BEST lower wattage pedal platform around, not just in the Z world! It's the combination of the EF86 front end and the way the Doc does his 6V6 power section. It is PLENTY loud for an indoor band who mic stuff on stage - PLENTY loud......... and if you need more, then there's the Rt66 and the KT45, but those are going to be mighty loud indoors and mic'ed and will add nothing that the Z28 can't do in those situations. I love the fact that you found out how woody and alive the Z28 is - it is genuinely like an extension of your guitar. and with the EF86 front end, SOOOOO dynamic! I totally echo your sentiment that you may buy other amps, but you'll never sell this one - my position EXACTLY!
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Post by southmusic70 on Mar 11, 2014 6:34:11 GMT -7
Pete's right, for me the Z28 will be the last one to go.
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Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 11, 2014 10:39:11 GMT -7
I think I've about decided that a Z-28 is the way I want to go. It's between Z28, Carmen Ghia, and the M12 for a smaller footprint head to go with a 1x10 cab.
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Post by Joey Beverages on Mar 11, 2014 11:26:14 GMT -7
I think I've about decided that a Z-28 is the way I want to go. It's between Z28, Carmen Ghia, and the M12 for a smaller footprint head to go with a 1x10 cab. All interesting choices .... ever thought of a dual amp setup of Z-28 and Carmen Ghia running thru a coupla different cabs? Just a thought ... Happy shopping and cheers always, Joel
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Post by Brian on Mar 11, 2014 11:45:10 GMT -7
I think I need to try one of these.
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Post by bwc on Mar 11, 2014 12:02:55 GMT -7
I think I need to try one of these. Yes you do
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Post by doctorice on Mar 11, 2014 12:03:16 GMT -7
I think my Z purchases were: MAZ 18, Remedy, Monza, Z-28, followed by others Started as a head, was in the 1x10 for a while, back as head now. Great amp. Pete: M12 uses, as you know, EL84s, leading to a different sound and feel than the '28. Given your amp history, I think it's safe to say those 6V6's are what you love
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Mar 11, 2014 12:52:27 GMT -7
You know me well Mike! The way the Doc does 6V6s makes me very happy
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Mar 11, 2014 12:58:26 GMT -7
I think I've about decided that a Z-28 is the way I want to go. It's between Z28, Carmen Ghia, and the M12 for a smaller footprint head to go with a 1x10 cab. I've had the Ghia and Z28 in 1x10 combos, and head/cab configs. Both are WONDERFUL amps, truly wonderful, but very different in tone. Z28 has more headroom, and a more muscular, ballsy tone; the Ghia breaks up earlier, but has the most excellent 3D chime and sizzle. (I have no experience of the M12) Purely my opinion, but I kept the Z28 and let the Ghia go (actually, I traded the Ghia for the Z28, unheard, and it was he best trade I've ever done! YMMV of course, and I know others adore their Ghias - just not a fan of EL84s here, as I said) Z28 1x10 combo turns a LOT of heads - first with scorn and derision ("you're playing through THAT?? Hur hur!") to amazement when they hear you ("Holy Tone machine Batman, what's IN that wee box??")
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Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 11, 2014 15:47:22 GMT -7
I have a 1x12 z cab but if I've got to attenuate it all the way down to keep a low stage volume I'd just as well lug around something smaller. That's why I want to get a head instead of a combo so I have options. My local dealer doesn't have any z28s in stock. I really wish I could try one before making the plunge. They did however have both Ghia and M12. I honestly think I could be happy with any of them. After all, it is a Z right.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Mar 11, 2014 15:55:52 GMT -7
Yep, getting an inefficient 10" speaker (NOT the Red Fang BTW) would help tame the volume on all of them, especially the Z28 which is about the same volume as a Ghia, but may feel louder due to the muscular tone. I found I could only really use a Brake Lite down 2 clicks before it sucked the tone, but you can run the V down to 9 o'clock and still sound good. But as you say, we're discussing a Ferrari vs a Lamborghini vs a Maserati (Z amps - a matter of personal taste as it's ALL good) compared to a Hyundai (everything else!)
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Mar 11, 2014 18:49:28 GMT -7
I think I've about decided that a Z-28 is the way I want to go. It's between Z28, Carmen Ghia, and the M12 for a smaller footprint head to go with a 1x10 cab. Purely my opinion, but I kept the Z28 and let the Ghia go (actually, I traded the Ghia for the Z28, unheard, and it was he best trade I've ever done! YMMV of course, and I know others adore their Ghias - just not a fan of EL84s here, as I said) This is something I've recently thought about. If I could make a trade like that, Ghia for a Z28, I'd be inclined to do just that.
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Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 11, 2014 19:03:48 GMT -7
I'm not sure if it's "inefficient" enough as far as db's but I had planned on using a Celestion Gold 10". I'm a big fan of the 12" version. Would that be good with the Z28?
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Post by nmz on Mar 11, 2014 21:22:39 GMT -7
I'm not sure if it's "inefficient" enough as far as db's but I had planned on using a Celestion Gold 10". I'm a big fan of the 12" version. Would that be good with the Z28? Recently tried a 12" gold with my 28 and it was very nice. Not really into 10's but would like to try another down the road.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Mar 12, 2014 2:19:17 GMT -7
I found the Weber Blue Pup Ceramic very nice with the Z28 - only 95dB, so quieter than a Gold (98dB) and MUCH quieter than something like a Red Fang (100dB - which sounds muddy to my ears anyway).
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Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 12, 2014 7:30:07 GMT -7
Weber has so many choices and options it kind of confuses me.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Mar 12, 2014 8:49:17 GMT -7
Weber has so many choices and options it kind of confuses me. Indeed, it can be horribly confusing... Just feel free to ask anyone here (myself included), as many of us have waded through those waters before.
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Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 12, 2014 10:39:55 GMT -7
Thanks. I'll take all the advice I can get. I've only played through a handful of speakers, but my favorite by far of the ones I've used is the Celestion Gold 12". I've never played an amp that had a weber just heard sound clips, which sounded good by the way...
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Post by aufamily on Apr 21, 2014 10:16:19 GMT -7
Very happy. I can't say I'll never buy another amp, but I won't sell this one. And here we are a month later and its on the BS&T.....!?!?!?!? Ahhh...the quest for tone makes liars of us all! LOL! Which Carol Ann is bumping the -28?
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