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Post by gitaryzt1985 on Jan 22, 2014 6:57:49 GMT -7
Background:
I have owned a Ghia, Maz 18, and M12 in the past. I liked certain things about them all! It's been awhile since I had the Ghia, and it was a 10" model. I remember wanting more low end from the combo, so naturally a 12" combo would be interesting for me. I currently sold my M12 because I just didn't think it was very loud. I could crank it all the way up and play in my house and I was just sort of taken back by how low volume it was. The Maz and Ghia weren't like that at all. They were LOUD. I don't remember how much head room the Ghia had, and that is my biggest concern with a Ghia. If I had to rank them tonally, it would be Ghia, M12, Maz 18. I didn't like the brashness of the Maz compared to the Ghia and M12.
The Situation:
I recently was approached about playing in my church's praise and worship band. It's a large church and a large auditorium, so amps would have to be mic'd for sure. Most of the guys are using HD500's (gag me) but I'm willing to go that route if they want me to. My current amp is a Bad Cat Cougar 15, but it's way too much like a Vox for my liking. I'm looking for another small Z combo!!!
The Question:
Which would work better in a large church atmosphere for contemporary Christian music, the Ghia or the M12? Since micing it's an issue, my first thought was M12 all the way. But, I remember LOVING the tone of the Ghia. And, I like the fact that the Ghia can break up a little quicker because that will help me get a little closer to driving the tubes even when the amp is set on clean. My only fear is that the Ghia won't have enough headroom with my PRS. The M12 really didn't impress me as far as headroom goes in respect to I wasn't really that loud before it did start breaking up. A major retailer told me over the phone that the Maz, Ghia, and M12 would all be about the same volume level before they start breaking up, but that past that point the Ghia and Maz were much louder than the M12.
Can anyone point me in the right direction? Would the Ghia be a good amp as a pedal platform even though the M12 is more so marketed for pedal guys?
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Post by bwc on Jan 22, 2014 7:23:26 GMT -7
You've bought and sold a Maz 18, ghia, and m12 for various reasons. I'd try a z-28 this time. Won't sound voxy, will have more headroom and can get louder than the others when cranked.
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Post by nmz on Jan 22, 2014 7:34:49 GMT -7
You've bought and sold a Maz 18, ghia, and m12 for various reasons. I'd try a z-28 this time. Won't sound voxy, will have more headroom and can get louder than the others when cranked. Ha, beat me to it! +1 on this advice. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 7:59:22 GMT -7
Yep--if you want 0% Vox, stay away from EL84s altogether, maybe. The M12 is an amp that's designed to be pre-amped by a drive pedal--I haven't owned one but I'm pretty sure they'll get loud enough for church if you goose 'em a little. The Ghia has less headroom, but if you swap out the stock 12AX7 for a 5751, you'll get more headroom and a somewhat warmer, less aggressive tone. But yeah--if you haven't tried a Z-28, that might be a great solution. I'm not a fan of the single 10" speaker (the 4x10 is another story, of course), but I love my '28 head--it pairs nicely with quite a range of 12" speakers. Mine's currently sitting on top of a 1x12 loaded with a G12H30, which is a terrific speaker for that amp.
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Post by gitaryzt1985 on Jan 22, 2014 9:39:53 GMT -7
Thanks for the responses. Actually, I sold the Ghia at the time because I wasn't playing guitar much and used the cash to help pay off my car. Once I started playing again I bought the Maz 18 because I wanted (thought I wanted) more tonal flexibility. Don't get me wrong, I love the Vox tone, but I don't like the brightness of the AC15 and now the Bad Cat Cougar, which is slightly warmer than the Vox. The Ghia was as far from bright as I can imagine bordering on very warm to my ear.
Right now, I'm pushed for cash. I could sell my Bad Cat and probably have enough to get a used Ghia/M12 head and with a little cash I could get a combo. I just don't have the cash for the Maz and probably wouldn't get the Maz anyway.
I just want a simple amp for pedal use, but really prefer the base tone of the Ghia to the M12 by a small margin.
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Post by jesslm02 on Jan 22, 2014 9:56:33 GMT -7
I'd consider my M12 pretty loud. Not as loud as my Maz 18. But not far off from the ghia either. What speakers were you using with them? Also, one thing I did to my M12 was put s 5v4 rectifier tube in. This made it a little louder but also reduces the clean on the volume knob compared to stock, but it still has plenty of headroom if I need it. The clean headroom on the M12 also depends on the tone knob settings.
Here's the thing for me: I play in church as well as frequent gigs on small stages/rooms. We are always mic'd up so low stage volume is a must. I pretty much have to get any OD from pedals because of the low stage volume. The M12 has been great for me in that setting. In fact, I have no trouble dialing nice fat cleans, that turns into a monster with an OD pedal.
But any of these will have somewhat if the vox flavor. So like others have said, if you wish stray away from that sound, then I wouldn't go with the el84 powered offerings.
The Z28 is great and takes pedals great as well. The tonestack operates just like the M12 so you are already familiar with it.
If you want max headroom, then go for an EZG! Mic - optional...
Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards
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Post by jesslm02 on Jan 22, 2014 10:00:56 GMT -7
I will also take a guess here and say that since the others are using PODs, they will probably expect your stage volume to be minimal.
Have you considered the Maz 8 as well? It's closer to vox territory than what you want probably, but it's a fabulous little stage amp.
Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards
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Post by gitaryzt1985 on Jan 22, 2014 10:12:07 GMT -7
I will also take a guess here and say that since the others are using PODs, they will probably expect your stage volume to be minimal. Have you considered the Maz 8 as well? It's closer to vox territory than what you want probably, but it's a fabulous little stage amp. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards This is sort of my fear/concern. I personally hate modeling, mainly because I feel it takes way the guitar player's unique tones and makes everyone sound the same. But, I could go to an HD500 for ease of assimilation if it means I get to play live again. Beggars can't be choosers. I'll know more when I arrange the meeting with the Music Director, but right now all I know is everyone uses HD500's and there are no amps on stage. IF this is the case, I will probably sell my Bad Cat and get an HD500 and go ampless until I can save up enough dough for a CG or M12. |
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Post by John on Jan 22, 2014 13:56:15 GMT -7
You'd be surprised how loud the Maz 8 really is when you use it with a 100db speaker (like a blue or V30)
The Z-28 is very different from those other amps. Not just because it's a big bottle, but it's also voiced very differently. But I guess the M12 has the same preamp. So you're probably familiar with it.
I don't know how old/year your Ghia was, but the Doc is making them with a bit more headroom than the late 90's/early 2000 models.
I'd ask a series of question:
1) Do I have to use a modeler?
2) If I don't have to use a modeler, how loud is the stage volume?
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Post by gitaryzt1985 on Jan 23, 2014 6:08:34 GMT -7
You'd be surprised how loud the Maz 8 really is when you use it with a 100db speaker (like a blue or V30) The Z-28 is very different from those other amps. Not just because it's a big bottle, but it's also voiced very differently. But I guess the M12 has the same preamp. So you're probably familiar with it. I don't know how old/year your Ghia was, but the Doc is making them with a bit more headroom than the late 90's/early 2000 models. I'd ask a series of question: 1) Do I have to use a modeler? 2) If I don't have to use a modeler, how loud is the stage volume? I found out yesterday that everyone is required to go direct. They said I could use my amp initially but they'd eventually want me running direct. They have an older XT Live POD thing I could use, but I went ahead and dropped the cash on an HD500x. I just figured I should go ahead and get the HD500 and get familiar with it so my tone at home while practicing can be the same tone I use live. Another first for me is in ear monitors....that is going to be interesting  I guess my goal now is to just go full on HD500 and sell my Bad Cat since I'm not feeling it. Since I'll be using the HD at the church and practicing with it at home, I figure I don't need an amp very much and I can just save until I can get a Ghia or M12 combo down the road if I need an amp in the future. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 6:19:06 GMT -7
Sounds like a plan.
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Post by jesslm02 on Jan 23, 2014 7:32:00 GMT -7
You'd be surprised how loud the Maz 8 really is when you use it with a 100db speaker (like a blue or V30) The Z-28 is very different from those other amps. Not just because it's a big bottle, but it's also voiced very differently. But I guess the M12 has the same preamp. So you're probably familiar with it. I don't know how old/year your Ghia was, but the Doc is making them with a bit more headroom than the late 90's/early 2000 models. I'd ask a series of question: 1) Do I have to use a modeler? 2) If I don't have to use a modeler, how loud is the stage volume? I found out yesterday that everyone is required to go direct. They said I could use my amp initially but they'd eventually want me running direct. They have an older XT Live POD thing I could use, but I went ahead and dropped the cash on an HD500x. I just figured I should go ahead and get the HD500 and get familiar with it so my tone at home while practicing can be the same tone I use live. Another first for me is in ear monitors....that is going to be interesting I guess my goal now is to just go full on HD500 and sell my Bad Cat since I'm not feeling it. Since I'll be using the HD at the church and practicing with it at home, I figure I don't need an amp very much and I can just save until I can get a Ghia or M12 combo down the road if I need an amp in the future. I'm sure you are familiar with lincoln brewster but he has some good patches on his site/facebook page. At least it might get you started anyways. I really liked his X3 Live patches. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards |
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Post by gitaryzt1985 on Jan 23, 2014 10:09:05 GMT -7
I found out yesterday that everyone is required to go direct. They said I could use my amp initially but they'd eventually want me running direct. They have an older XT Live POD thing I could use, but I went ahead and dropped the cash on an HD500x. I just figured I should go ahead and get the HD500 and get familiar with it so my tone at home while practicing can be the same tone I use live. Another first for me is in ear monitors....that is going to be interesting I guess my goal now is to just go full on HD500 and sell my Bad Cat since I'm not feeling it. Since I'll be using the HD at the church and practicing with it at home, I figure I don't need an amp very much and I can just save until I can get a Ghia or M12 combo down the road if I need an amp in the future. I'm sure you are familiar with lincoln brewster but he has some good patches on his site/facebook page. At least it might get you started anyways. I really liked his X3 Live patches. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards I'll have to check out his patches. If the HD500 works out, I may even look into selling the Bad Cat and picking up a new guitar. I haven't bought a new guitar in a while because my amp search is never ending. It might be cool to get an obscure Tele, or a something with P90's. I've had the same 2 guitars for close to 2 years now. |
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Post by jesslm02 on Jan 23, 2014 10:14:38 GMT -7
It might be worth it to look into some noiseless pickup options as well. I've read that some folks have noise issues with the PODs. Dimarzios are hard to beat in the noiseless department, for strat or tele. For noiseless P90s, I might have to go Fralin on that one.
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Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 4, 2014 13:50:29 GMT -7
From my experience, even back when I used a PODX3 direct at church I still wanted an amp to come home and practice with because I got tired of hearing everything through headphones. Just thought I'd throw that out there....
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