|
|
Post by chrisnewport on Nov 10, 2013 14:56:48 GMT -7
Ok,
So curiosity is getting the better of me. I like my Ghia with its matching blonde 2x10 cab loaded with stock Z tens but want to hear it with a blue. Does anyone have any experience of a direct comparison between the two? I'm most specifically interested in perceived volume and treble and bass response.
If you are a fan of the Ghia into one blue speaker... please share your experiences...
FYI I'm finding that I really dig the sound of the tens on their own, but they are getting killed in a band context by an AC15 with a single blue 12. I can't let this continue ;-)
Cheers!
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisnewport on Nov 11, 2013 7:47:39 GMT -7
Surely someone here has experience of this? :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by bwc on Nov 11, 2013 10:01:05 GMT -7
I think I read on the forum that docs 10's are 98 db so that could account for less headroom than an AC15 with a 100db blue. I'm not certain on that though. Are you using a closed back 2x10 cab? Maybe convert it to openback to get more sound out on stage?
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisnewport on Nov 11, 2013 10:02:48 GMT -7
Nah I'm using it with the back open, with an MXR Micro Amp and still getting out-shouted...
|
|
|
|
Post by bwc on Nov 11, 2013 10:08:36 GMT -7
That doesn't really sound right, they're kinda similar amps and should have similar volumes. Throw two red fangs in the cab and you won't have any issues  |
|
|
|
Post by chrisnewport on Nov 11, 2013 10:10:42 GMT -7
Yeah I was wondering about that idea. Also, does anyone have experience of swapping the preamp tubes around in a Ghia... if that yields more clean headroom I can perhaps push it harder before everything gets a little too compressed.
|
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Nov 11, 2013 12:04:36 GMT -7
Yeah I was wondering about that idea. Also, does anyone have experience of swapping the preamp tubes around in a Ghia... if that yields more clean headroom I can perhaps push it harder before everything gets a little too compressed. Dr Z says switching from stock (V1=12ax7, V2=5751) to V1=5751, V2=12ax7 will give more clean headroom. I've not tried it, but I think we can trust him! |
|
|
|
Post by chrisnewport on Nov 11, 2013 12:54:56 GMT -7
Indeed! Anyone tried it?
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisnewport on Nov 11, 2013 16:57:24 GMT -7
That doesn't really sound right, they're kinda similar amps and should have similar volumes. Throw two red fangs in the cab and you won't have any issues Am I right in thinking that the volume difference between two stock Z tens and two Red Fangs would be considerable? Any difference between running a pair of eight-ohm RFs versus a pair of sixteen-ohm RFs? |
|
|
|
Post by j4gitr (John) on Nov 12, 2013 15:59:07 GMT -7
Yeah I was wondering about that idea. Also, does anyone have experience of swapping the preamp tubes around in a Ghia... if that yields more clean headroom I can perhaps push it harder before everything gets a little too compressed. Dr Z says switching from stock (V1=12ax7, V2=5751) to V1=5751, V2=12ax7 will give more clean headroom. I've not tried it, but I think we can trust him! I think I did the tube swap as mentioned above. I do feel it provided a little more head room. I switched back because I found it little too harsh for the church environment in which I was using it. That may have been due to the particular tube in v1. I am in the process of ordering another couple nos 12ax7 s instead of the JJ I had in there. Should be an interesting experiment |
|
|
|
Post by digs57 on Nov 12, 2013 17:11:22 GMT -7
He (doc z) gave me suggestion of 12ax7lps v2...tried it was to harsh for my preference...I stuck the 5751 back in and switched to the les paul...now were talkin.Had punchin power at the local jam sunday,no ice pickin there.
I was that close to cutting it loose...its found a place in the stable w/the paul.
|
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Nov 12, 2013 17:42:35 GMT -7
its found a place in the stable w/the paul. LP + Ghia is a great pairing. |
|
|
|
Post by uncleebeneezer on Nov 13, 2013 13:22:48 GMT -7
Dr Z says switching from stock (V1=12ax7, V2=5751) to V1=5751, V2=12ax7 will give more clean headroom. I've not tried it, but I think we can trust him! I think I did the tube swap as mentioned above. I do feel it provided a little more head room. I switched back because I found it little too harsh for the church environment in which I was using it. That may have been due to the particular tube in v1. I am in the process of ordering another couple nos 12ax7 s instead of the JJ I had in there. Should be an interesting experiment How noticeable was the difference in headroom? I may try this as I'm looking for a bit more clean headroom for live gigs even though an 18 watt Z gives me more than enough volume. If I try it out at home I'll probably have to use my brake-lite to keep from killing my ears (my guitar room is rather small and loud, I only play with BL on 3 or 4.) Would using the BL complicate things (assuming I use the same setting for each tube configuration?) |
|
|
|
Post by chrisnewport on Nov 13, 2013 14:45:25 GMT -7
ES-335 + Ghia with volume on about 2 o'clock is just enough stage level for me for small shows (loud drummer, rocking band) but the problem is that because I have to turn it up to pretty much as loud as it gets, when I step on my OCD there's not enough of a level boost and everything just gets even more compressed. So I figure that more efficient speakers than a pair of the Doc's 10s might mean I won't have to push the amp so hard, thus giving pedals more headroom to work with. I haven't tried the preamp tube swap yet but I'm hoping that might help too...
Previously I owned a Maz 18 NR 1x12 loaded with a G12H and while the Ghia records better and I prefer the sound, the Maz was significantly louder live and had way more headroom. Even at big outdoor shows I never needed to push it so hard that headroom became an issue. To clarify, I'm not talking about clean headroom, I mean headroom in terms of how hard the power amp is working and how compressed the sound is getting. The Maz was more comfortable live but I was never totally happy with the tone and I never liked the way it sounded on tape, whereas the Ghia is incredible in the studio but gets outmuscled live with the Doc's stock speakers in a 2x10.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Nov 13, 2013 16:16:44 GMT -7
In all your posts, I can't find anywhere where you've said what speaker you're currently using. The Ghia with a blue will be fantastic. Light on the bass, but loads of lush mids and highs. Fantastic combination.
Blue is a 100db speaker....rather loud.
If it's a G12H30....there's your problem. The H has recessed mids and is hard to hear in a live band situation. Get a blue, or a V30. (A v30 will sound nasal at first. It takes a lot of breaking in)
A humbucker guitar with a Ghia on 2:00 will overdrive the amp pretty well. Like you said, a dirt pedal on top of that combo won't do much.
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisnewport on Nov 13, 2013 16:27:11 GMT -7
Sorry, I thought I'd explained, I'm using a Z 2x10 with the Doc's standard 10-inch speakers in it. I like the tone, but they are not particularly loud speakers. I feel that using more efficient speakers ( whether it's a pair of Red Fangs or a different cabinet with a blue in it) or even perhaps the Doc's 4x10 cab might mean that I don't have to push the amp so hard in order to be heard, which will in turn help the OCD make more impact when I step on it as there will be more headroom available...
|
|
|
|
Post by j4gitr (John) on Nov 13, 2013 16:43:42 GMT -7
I think I did the tube swap as mentioned above. I do feel it provided a little more head room. I switched back because I found it little too harsh for the church environment in which I was using it. That may have been due to the particular tube in v1. I am in the process of ordering another couple nos 12ax7 s instead of the JJ I had in there. Should be an interesting experiment How noticeable was the difference in headroom? I may try this as I'm looking for a bit more clean headroom for live gigs even though an 18 watt Z gives me more than enough volume. If I try it out at home I'll probably have to use my brake-lite to keep from killing my ears (my guitar room is rather small and loud, I only play with BL on 3 or 4.) Would using the BL complicate things (assuming I use the same setting for each tube configuration?) The difference wasn't earth shattering, but enough that I could tell the difference. I have BL but don't really use it, so I'm not much help there. I play with my amp volume fairly high and dial down guitar volume to as much as half give or take a tick. I'd say from memory I may have gotten another hour to 90 min on the amp volume. Temper that with what I said about my guitar volume. I know I had more room to go, but I did switch back as I felt the 12ax7/ecc83 (JJ) I had in there was a little harsh to my ear. I don't know if this helps, but it's still a work in progress. I like that swapping a tube can be so effective. Even at sixty bucks for a nos, it's cheaper to swap tubes as opposed to amps. |
|
|
|
Post by uncleebeneezer on Nov 13, 2013 17:27:58 GMT -7
Thanks J4! 30 mins-1hr on Volume knob would probably do the trick. I play a semi-hollow through Doc's 210 cab and usually my tone is nice and warm, so I doubt it will be too harsh for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by j4gitr (John) on Nov 13, 2013 18:53:11 GMT -7
The Ghia through docs tens should sound mighty nice.
|
|
|
|
Post by uncleebeneezer on Nov 15, 2013 16:39:55 GMT -7
It worked. Switching the pre-amp tubes gave me about an hour-notch more of clean headroom, and I didn't find it too harsh (doc's 10's probably helps that.) More importantly, I cranked the amp up (with BL on 2 to save my ears) and rolled the guitar vol down to 7-8 for a clean tone. Lovin' it. I think I may have to start doing this live, though I will have to do it with the Brakelite or my band-mates will kill me  |
|
|
|
Post by chrisnewport on Nov 19, 2013 17:22:53 GMT -7
Ok so I switched the preamp tubes around in rehearsal tonight and ran the 5751 first then the 12AX7 in position two. I'm happy to report that it really makes a difference. Bear in mind I'm running the amp with the volume around 12-1 o'clock with no attenuation (loud band), here are my findings with an ES-335.
First of all, more punch, less compression, more volume. It's maybe a shade darker, so I added a little extra treble via the tone control. Now when I step on the OCD it boosts the signal a bit as well as dirtying things up, instead of just getting swamped in compression. More cut through, less mush, more definition. Not getting killed by the rhythm guitarist's blue-loaded AC15 anymore. I'm still having to run the level high on the pedal, but things are much improved. I possibly slightly prefer the tone of his amp, but that's a whole separate can of worms ;-)
|
|
|
|
Post by meanslide on Nov 19, 2013 19:10:42 GMT -7
Ok so I switched the preamp tubes around in rehearsal tonight and ran the 5751 first then the 12AX7 in position two. I'm happy to report that it really makes a difference. Bear in mind I'm running the amp with the volume around 12-1 o'clock with no attenuation (loud band), here are my findings with an ES-335. First of all, more punch, less compression, more volume. It's maybe a shade darker, so I added a little extra treble via the tone control. Now when I step on the OCD it boosts the signal a bit as well as dirtying things up, instead of just getting swamped in compression. More cut through, less mush, more definition. Not getting killed by the rhythm guitarist's blue-loaded AC15 anymore. I'm still having to run the level high on the pedal, but things are much improved. I possibly slightly prefer the tone of his amp, but that's a whole separate can of worms ;-) Have you tried turning that V knob on the Ghia all the way up? That's where the Ghia really keeps the goods! |
|
|
|
Post by chrisnewport on Nov 20, 2013 1:53:21 GMT -7
Yeah of course - the thing doesn't get any louder after 1 o'clock just dirtier and more compressed - it's great maxed out in the studio but for live purposes I need my core amp tone to be a little cleaner with more scope for pedals.
|
|
