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Post by JChance on Oct 31, 2005 17:46:55 GMT -7
I've wondered for years what the facination is with Celestion Blues....But I thought I'd get some opinions here, since Z users tend to be familiar with them. First of all, this is *not* a "flame Blues" thread. I think they are fine speakers....But here are my thoughts, and have been for years- The last few weeks I've been working with new country artist Bobby Pinson... (He's the guy that sings the "Don't drink the water in Mexico" song , for those not familiar.... ) Lately, the tour dates have included several fly dates, and on my backline rider I have "Vox AC30" listed as my third option if the backline company doesn't have a (1) Dr. Z, or (2) Matchless DC30. So of course, I usually end up with an AC30 reissue because of their availablility. Ocassionally I have lucked out and gotten a Matchless, Bad Cat, or vintage AC30, but the reissues seem to be what's out there to use. The last couple of weeks, I've been "stuck" with AC30's loaded with Blues, even though I'd prefer Greenbacks if I had a choice. I think they have a nice chime to them, but can't get any useable bottom end. And trust me, I've never been someone to want to crank the bass knob on my amp... I like for the amp to be voiced with enough bottom that I don't have to turn it way up. And therefore the amp needs a speaker that has a warm voicing with out maxing the bass controls. So to get enough bottom on the AC30's with Blues, I'm having to crank the bass knob up to about 7 or 8 o'clock, at which point the amp totally flabs out at live volumes. Keep in mind that most of these fly dates are outdoor fairs, amphitheatres, small arenas, etc... Meaning the amp is running pretty loud....usually at about 1 or 2 o'clock on the volume. I love Brian May, and love his tone.... But it just doesn't work for me. I guess my question is, what is it that you Blue lovers *love* about these speakers? And why do they constantly win "speaker shootouts" and the like? I've just always thought of them as a nice, chimey speaker that would work great for recording, but not so much for live playing where you actually need to open the amp up. Just have never thought they were anything special. And of course, I know how personal tone can be....Tastes are different from player to player. I guess I'm just wondering why the vast majority "loves" these speakers and Celestion can still get $250-300 a pop for them. "Chime" in, (yes, pun intended ), and give me your thoughts on blues and what their biggest strength/best application is meant to be..... JC
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Post by Laroosco!! on Nov 1, 2005 0:42:54 GMT -7
Blues are cool speakers but IMO no one speaker can be that good. I don't doubt that there are a lot of guys that like Blues above all else but I think there are people out there that hear what they want and have been overrun by the hype machine. You will neve convince me that they are worth the extra price.
I too prefer Greenbackss in an AC30 and other brighter sounding amps.
jmo
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Post by guitarman1 on Nov 1, 2005 9:28:29 GMT -7
I've used them in a Maz 38 & an AC30 re-issue and I agree with your opinion on these. In the home and studio they do have a nice chime and provide a usable low end, but they can't hang in a large, loud venue very well. I think the top end of a G12H is very close to the Blues, but with way more low end and do a great job on stage if that British chime is what somebody is looking for. Also, being only 15 watts limits their usability in many amps. I often here of guys blowing these. IMHO the whole Alnico/Vintage Reissue mystic is what drives the market and pricing for these things. I wouldn't be surprised if allot of players have purchased these without ever hearing them, simply because of the Internet & media hype. Most guys would be hard pressed to demo these in a music store, as I rarely see them installed in any amps. As a result, players order some, try them out, and say "I guess this is the sh*t...It's supposed to be the sh*t...I spent $500.00 on these drivers, so they have to be the sh*t...I can't return these raw framed speakers, so yea man, these are the sh*t!.......I think." Don't get me wrong, I like these speakers and they can sound glorious in certain applications, but they are not worth the money Celestion is asking. Maybe $150.00 per speaker would be more inline.
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Post by steveinnashville on Nov 5, 2005 11:32:53 GMT -7
This is exactly my experience. They are good for a grind, not for smooth compression and clean- much less headroom. I have a ceramic WeberVST C12S 12" in my Z-best 1x12", but I've also tried a Weber C12CA (JBL clone) and P12B (?) alnico blue dog (Celestion Blue clone). I find that the C12S (silver?) has a good headroom (for the Ghia, anyway) and is really nice for a clear and almost "clean" sounding overdrive. Responsive, good bass as well (Z amps have got a lot of bottom end).
-Steve
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buster
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by buster on Jan 17, 2007 17:35:26 GMT -7
Blues are sweet clear and detailed. Switching pickups means all those extra details in various settings are clear detailed and for lack of a better word 3dimensional. By comparison with say a vintage 30(that I also really like) the blue is not as loud or aggresive which in certain live situations may or may not be as desirable. However when it comes to complexity and sweetness, I haven't heard a speaker that is as nice yet. I own and use vintage 30's, gh30's, greenbacks and gh65s. One thing though is that I have only used my blue in a live setting a couple of times. In a recording and just playing at home situation the blue is very articulate, and satisfying to play, I think unique and in a different league from the others. I like all celestion speakers but am worried of blowing the blues in a live setting but have recently found out that some guys use them in their Carmen Gia's cranked with no problem. I guess it depends maybe on your application also. The blue stands apart from all others to my ear.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jan 17, 2007 18:59:29 GMT -7
Wow I must be the one that is falling for it then... Actually, I had never even heard the Blues until I got the 2x12 for my Stingray. I bought that cab because of the hype, no question. And when I cranked it up, it was the most glorious thing I'd ever heard. I'm afraid to try them on my other amps, because they are such low powered speakers, but you don't really need high power with them because they are so efficient. What I'm hearing, that NONE of my other speakers have, is some specific detail in the upper midrange. On all of my ceramic speakers that have the same output in that frequency band, they all honk. The Blues just don't honk at all. That upper midrange just sounds wonderful. But here's the thing - if I was playing alternative, metal, or any number of other styles, I doubt the Blues would work as well. But for blues and top 40 oldies, they are kicking arse. And by the way, with the Stingray there is NO PROBLEM with bottom - I have tons of it on tap. I'm sure there are probably speakers that do low end better, but really, why do I want to have bottom end as tight as our bass player? All I'll end up doing is pissing him off while I play on his turf. I want the bottom end of my guitar to be distinctive to the guitar, and I think the Blues do that very well. I've been playing the Stingray at gigs from outdoor, to 600 seat rooms, to tiny little 50 person clubs, and it's working great in every single instance. I'm so impressed with the Blues, I'll probably buy a couple of Golds to fiddle with here. So that's my two cents worth, and you have a right to them!
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Post by hdahs143 on Jan 17, 2007 22:25:01 GMT -7
Had 2, then 1, then none!
LOVE: the chime thing, beautiful upper mid sound, complex and sweet.
HATE: sounded like it was going to implode with the Stingray at 1/2 volume; the highs especially with dirt pedals, were edgy and rather unpleasant.
Weber Alnico 30 watt Blue Dog was the alnico answer for me. Very similar to the Celestion, but a little less "glassy" with a little more "girth" to the sound.
Harold
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Post by Hohn on Jan 19, 2007 0:55:18 GMT -7
Wow I must be the one that is falling for it then... Actually, I had never even heard the Blues until I got the 2x12 for my Stingray. I bought that cab because of the hype, no question. And when I cranked it up, it was the most glorious thing I'd ever heard. I'm afraid to try them on my other amps, because they are such low powered speakers, but you don't really need high power with them because they are so efficient. What I'm hearing, that NONE of my other speakers have, is some specific detail in the upper midrange. On all of my ceramic speakers that have the same output in that frequency band, they all honk. The Blues just don't honk at all. That upper midrange just sounds wonderful. But here's the thing - if I was playing alternative, metal, or any number of other styles, I doubt the Blues would work as well. But for blues and top 40 oldies, they are kicking arse. And by the way, with the Stingray there is NO PROBLEM with bottom - I have tons of it on tap. I'm sure there are probably speakers that do low end better, but really, why do I want to have bottom end as tight as our bass player? All I'll end up doing is pissing him off while I play on his turf. I want the bottom end of my guitar to be distinctive to the guitar, and I think the Blues do that very well. I've been playing the Stingray at gigs from outdoor, to 600 seat rooms, to tiny little 50 person clubs, and it's working great in every single instance. I'm so impressed with the Blues, I'll probably buy a couple of Golds to fiddle with here. So that's my two cents worth, and you have a right to them! My experience is similar--- bought the Blues unheard based on Stu's recommendations to go with the Stang Ray. Interesting that you comment on the bottom end, because I've always marvelled at how huge the Blues sound in that regard with the Stang. Is it possible that it's not the Blues, but the AC30 that is responsible for the lack of low end in the fly dates? I'm also wondering what difference cabinet quality might makes as well. The Korg-era Voxes aren't going to win any quality awards from me. Heck, the originals weren't all that well-made, either. I haven't had but just a couple chances to really open up my Ray, but the bottom end seemed really tight with the Blues and an open back cab up to about half volume (which is WAY loud indoors!). They are bright enough to where they can make certain types of drive pedal a little harsher. But just dialing down the EQ on the pedal has worked for me. I'd personally rather have an overly bright setup that I can tame easily, compared to a dark amp that just DISAPPEARS into any mix. My last amp (Peavey classic 100) had a bad habit of playing chameleon-- just always disappeared into a dark, muddy mess in any mix. I hated that amp, and the tone I have now only highlights how bad it was before. jmo
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Post by Shannon on Jan 23, 2007 22:01:03 GMT -7
I've had this same conversation with Jgleaton. When I got my Stingray combo, it didn't take the place of my favorite amp because of the bottom end. I like a rounder sound than the Blues were giving me. All that was cured with an extension cab. I plan on swapping 1 of the blues out of the combo. Not sure what I'm going to pair it with yet, but I feel like it will compliment a darker speaker very well. I don't think there is a speaker out there that will do it all, for me anyway. Compromise one thing for another. Everyone has a sound in their head that they are looking for. The Blues alone just isn't it for me.
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Post by division17 on Jan 24, 2007 7:23:27 GMT -7
65 Amps is using the combination of the Celestion Blue and the G12H30 for the Marquee Club (35 watts) amp. I think that Divided by 13 is using that pairing as well. I heard a guy playing through the Marquee and it sounded wonderful.
When I was trying out different Dr. Z amps, I played through a Stingray combo fitted with two Blues. It wasn't the sound I was looking for. I settled for the Maz Sr and the Z-Best. But what I've heard so far about the Gold is that it has much more bottom than the Blue. Seems that's maybe why this speaker is now available in the Stang Ray and RX ES combos.
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Post by zdogma on Jan 24, 2007 7:32:44 GMT -7
I really love the blues with my low wattage amps. I've never used them in any other application.
Its the sound I've always heard in my head, really clear and detailed without excessive, ear piercing treble. It seems to make all of my 18 watt and less amps sound more pleasing to the ear. Especially nice with a ghia.
The bottom end is weak, I agree completely, but that's what the bass player is for.
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Post by BW on Jan 24, 2007 9:43:57 GMT -7
I have 4 original Vox Bulldogs, ALL of 'em blown, (3 were blown when I bought 'em and reconed w/ Vintage 30 kits.) It works, but they rub a little when ya romp on 'em. The remaining original cone one was in my old Deluxe YEARS ago, it sounded La Fabulosa in that amp, 'til it gave up the ghost on the gig! Tried one of the recones w/ my Ghia AND Senior, but it jes' didn't 'SANG' to me anymore, so I stayed w/ the G12H-100 (which I hear is out of production now, OF COURSE.)
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captain38
Full Member
I followed you big river...
Posts: 198
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Post by captain38 on Feb 1, 2007 23:45:13 GMT -7
I think I agree a little bit with everyone here. The blues have actually treated me really well...I prefer them over two vintage 30's which I tried in an Orange cab. My Maz 38 NR seems to have excellent tight bass response...which is one of the main reasons that I got it. (I played an old twin reverb with jbl's for a long time....it had a sweet bottom end.) One thing is for sure...this may attribute soley to the fact that it's a Z, but I ALWAYS stand out in the mix...to the point that I typically have to turn down a decent amount lower than our other guitarist.(hand wired AC30 w/blues) I also noticed that when I was trying maz models out that the NR's always seemed so much thicker better bottom ended than the reverb models.
One problem I do have is in really large venues with the open back things can tend to get spikey and lose low end (unless you have your head in the back of the cab(my ears are still ringin'))!!....I hope to remedy that with a zbest 2x12?....think that will work
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dew
New Member
I Pick therefore I Grin
Posts: 16
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Post by dew on Feb 2, 2007 21:42:55 GMT -7
I was thinking very seriously about putting a blue in my Maz. 18 combo. After all everybody has said about them I thought that it would be the ultimate speaker for that amp. I was told that it would make my amp sound more like an A/C 30. So yesterday I went to a music store that had a cab loaded with blues and a cab loaded with greenbacks,both of these cabs were Z's openbacks. I played a Stangray, RX Es and a Maz. 18 combo with a G12H which is what I have. After I A/B'd everything with all the different speakers I decided that I didn't like The celestion blue. The high end was very harsh and ice picky and it didn't matter what amp we used or how we set it. But as soon as we went to the greenbacks everything sounded much better and was not as harsh. They also had a combo with a weber blue in it,so we hooked up all the amps to that and I thought it sounded so much better than the celestion blues. To make me even more confused I played through a Divided by 13 that had a G12h and a celestion blue in it and that thing sounded incredible. I don't get it!! All I know is that I don't wan't a celestion blue in my Maz. JR. But thats just me and I know that a lot of people love them. If anybody has any recomendations let my know. Thanks Dew
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Post by Hohn on Feb 2, 2007 22:24:50 GMT -7
I would say that the Blue complements some amps better than others. It works in my Ray, but I dunno if it would be working as well with another amp like a Jr.
I've also discovered that I prefer the Blues to be mixed with another driver, as opposed to having a multi-speaker cab of all Blues.
The Blue that was formerly in my Z open 2x12 is now in a little 1x12 extension, and it's excellent as a small portable extension cab, but the bottom end is definitely not as robust or controlled as the 2x12 that's a Blue/EVM combo.
jh
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tuna
New Member
"Ain't Nothin to it"
Posts: 23
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Post by tuna on Feb 26, 2007 21:10:01 GMT -7
To make me even more confused I played through a Divided by 13 that had a G12h and a celestion blue in it and that thing sounded incredible. I don't get it!! Thanks Dew I have on order a /13 1-12 cabinet with a Blue to go along with /13 1-12 cab with G-12H. I am hoping for the same results that you just described.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 26, 2007 21:40:02 GMT -7
Well now that I have my C-Golds I "get it" even more about the Blues. When I play the Stingray through the Golds, it is clean all the way up. But through the Blues, once the volume gets to about 1 o'clock the speakers crunch up and sound glorious. I'd been wondering why all these people say the Stingray has so much clean headroom - well with some speakers, apparently it does. But not so with the Blues. It has a great top end crunch going on that you just can't get any other way. Very cool!
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