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Post by thehog107 on Sept 3, 2007 9:35:38 GMT -7
Hi All,
As I mentioned in my other tread, I just recently bought a new Suhr classic guitar. I am super happy with this purchase, however... as with any single coil pickup in my house the hum is really really bad.
I had the same problem with my American Tele and my American Strat. I solved this problem by first getting a guitar tech to put Fender SCN pups in my strat. I thought it was amazing, no irritating noise, it actually made my strat useable.
Several months later, I started to read about Kinman pickups. I ordered a set for my Tele. I ordered the easy installation harness for this and did the installation myself. It was actually very very easy. I was so blown away by the tone, I almost ordered a set of Kinmans for my strat as well. But allass they aren't cheap so I lacked the funds.
This all leads to me bring home my Suhr guitar and finding the hum really annoying, however I absolutely Loved the tone!!!! I thought about ordering Kinmans for it, but that would mean changing the tone. I really loved the tone. Grrrr.... what to do. I then discovered that Suhr offered a backplate system, that wasn't supposed to effect tone but knock out the hum. I also found out that in order to use this system the middle pickup has to NOT be reverse wound, reverse polarity. Which would mean a new middle pickup.
So I proceeded to order a new pickup and the backplate. In the process I also found the installation fee was going to be $125 and at least a 2 week wait (after the v57 pickup came in, which was backordered). I though nuts to that!!!, so I decided to do the installation on my own. However I did not want my first experience to be on my new guitar. So I decided to install a full set of v60 suhr pickups(they had these in stock) and backplate on my American Strat. The whole installation process took me about 2 hours, I took my time as I'd never really done anything like this before. The Kinman installation required no soldering or reading any electronic diagrams, so it was really very different.
Well.... I can report I was successfull in my own installation and am blown away by the sound coming out of my American Strat! I'm almost considering changing the V57s in my Suhr guitar to V60s. The backplate worked really well and it knocks out about 95% of the hum. You can still hear some if you really really listen, but its more than acceptable to me. I'll report in a week or so when my v57 pickup comes in, for my Suhr guitar.
Also, as an observation I have an Xotic AC guitar pedal that was generally too muddy and it now sounds really great. It just struck me why some people like this pedal and some don't.
more to come in the week that follow.........
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Post by dixiechicken on Sept 3, 2007 10:52:27 GMT -7
You can also reduce the hum from single coil mics by creating in effect a Faradays cage around you guitar electronics. This entails painting the guitar cavities with conducting paint, buying copper foil - thin thin sheats of copper and glue it all on the inside wall of the cavities. As usual also solder a grounding wire to this copper shield and connct it with the bridge on the guitar. I this is done properly it can reduce the hum substantially - but not as much as humbuckers do. But if you're dead set on keeping your single coil tone this is an option. Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by thehog107 on Sept 3, 2007 11:19:10 GMT -7
I have heard that this may also change the tone a bit, by removing some of the high frequencies from the pickups. Do you think this is true?
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Post by play4jc on Sept 3, 2007 13:45:13 GMT -7
Lindy Fralin was wiring me a set of pickups last year and he also installed the Suhr Silent coil system, All 3 pickups have to wired the same way, 2 and 4 postion quack was still there but not like it is w/o it, I have a brand new Suhr Strat with 2 singles and a Full size humbucker, it also has the silent system, but shur put a on/off on 1 of the pots, the 2 and 4 postion is not as good, but its kinda there. I also asked Lindy about the shielding method and he doent believe in it cause it will affect the tone, He is a purist in every sence of the word, He could build noiseless single coils but he wont, Pure single coils, noise and all is where the tone comes from.
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Post by dixiechicken on Sept 3, 2007 13:58:43 GMT -7
Maybe but.... I did this on my Les Paul when I had the stock Gibson P-90 PU:s on it. I didn't notice any difference in sound except more quiet. Must be better ears than mine to detect it in such a case. (YMMV) I could easily produce a theoretical argument for the opposite in fact, doesn't necessarily make it true. ;D Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by dixiechicken on Sept 3, 2007 14:00:44 GMT -7
BTW your quest surely is for Hum reduction BUT NOT Tone reduction??? ;D
Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by thehog107 on Sept 3, 2007 14:24:14 GMT -7
BTW your quest surely is for Hum reduction BUT NOT Tone reduction??? ;D Cheers: Dixiechicken Oops..... don't want to reduce tone.... I wonder if there's some middle ground with the shielding technique. I've heard some apply shielding to the pickguard and I've even seen someone wrap their pickups. Everything seems to come at a cost. The SCN were super quiet, but comparing them to other single coil pickups they lack something in tone. I can see light shielding working for some but my Townhouse is a hum machine. Could be something to do with a giant electrical box in my backyard. Its really interesting that Lindy Fralin says they wouldn't make noiseless pickups...
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Post by thehog107 on Sept 3, 2007 14:28:38 GMT -7
Lindy Fralin was wiring me a set of pickups last year and he also installed the Suhr Silent coil system, All 3 pickups have to wired the same way, 2 and 4 postion quack was still there but not like it is w/o it, I have a brand new Suhr Strat with 2 singles and a Full size humbucker, it also has the silent system, but shur put a on/off on 1 of the pots, the 2 and 4 postion is not as good, but its kinda there. I also asked Lindy about the shielding method and he doent believe in it cause it will affect the tone, He is a purist in every sence of the word, He could build noiseless single coils but he wont, Pure single coils, noise and all is where the tone comes from. When you say he doesn't believe in shielding, do you mean guitar cavity shielding? Did he have any particular feelings on the Suhr backplate?
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Post by dixiechicken on Sept 3, 2007 15:09:23 GMT -7
I don't agree at all. Really stupid argument. (IMHO) The noise & hum destroys the tone. If the hum is so great why don't you want hum in your amplifiers??? Just doesn't make any sense to me. Even Lindy Fralin shurely has the grounding wire connected to the bridge or some place similar.?? Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by highway61south on Sept 3, 2007 20:29:09 GMT -7
If hum is really a big issue maybe you should try something like the area 58 or 61.They are as quiet as anything I have heard and still have a great single coil sound......Sterling
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Post by Strato on Sept 3, 2007 20:35:40 GMT -7
Do you play mainly in your house? With single coils, the hum is also pretty bad in my house, but anywhere I play out, I get almost no hum. I play a new Fender American strat with Fralin Vintage Hot pickups.
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Post by zdogma on Sept 3, 2007 21:27:48 GMT -7
Ditto for me. I use the same guitar, but with amalfitano pickups. I did a shielding job and didn't notice much difference. I even get a fair bit of hum with my Les Paul at home.
I wonder how much of this is the smaller room, and less background noise at home?
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Post by dixiechicken on Sept 4, 2007 0:21:47 GMT -7
It is true that the wiring and ground conducting layout in your house can play a big role, and of course certain thyristors for light adjustment.
I some places ( we have an infamous old house in my home town where we have done a lot of gigs - the local jazzclub had concerts there for 20 yers or so) where there's virtually impossible to get rid of hum & pops & what not.
Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by thehog107 on Sept 4, 2007 6:50:41 GMT -7
I play exclusively at home. The only other place I've played is the local guitar shop. Guitars are quiet there. Someone suggested on another site suggested this.... www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Supplies:_Shielding/Conductive_Shielding_Paint.html I might try this in my Am strat to get rid of the final little bit of hum...
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Post by rcrecelius on Sept 4, 2007 7:00:30 GMT -7
I have heard that this may also change the tone a bit, by removing some of the high frequencies from the pickups. Do you think this is true? If you are referring to the shielding paint and/or copper foil...I would say yes it will cause a slight reduction in the high end. I did one of my teles years ago with the shielding paint and noticed a slight loss of high end. I feel like I had a good before/after comparison too because the shielding paint was the only thing being done to the guitar at the time.
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Post by thehog107 on Sept 4, 2007 8:23:14 GMT -7
I have heard that this may also change the tone a bit, by removing some of the high frequencies from the pickups. Do you think this is true? If you are referring to the shielding paint and/or copper foil...I would say yes it will cause a slight reduction in the high end. I did one of my teles years ago with the shielding paint and noticed a slight loss of high end. I feel like I had a good before/after comparison too because the shielding paint was the only thing being done to the guitar at the time. Really??? Holly cow man! I swear everyone has a different opinion on this, some people say "Just gets rid of the noise and doesn't effect the tone" Its getting hard to know what to think....... Would you say it was a good trade off? or did you feel it ruined your tone? Maybe ruined is too strong a word...but I think you know what I mean.
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Post by rcrecelius on Sept 4, 2007 8:50:28 GMT -7
If you are referring to the shielding paint and/or copper foil...I would say yes it will cause a slight reduction in the high end. I did one of my teles years ago with the shielding paint and noticed a slight loss of high end. I feel like I had a good before/after comparison too because the shielding paint was the only thing being done to the guitar at the time. Really??? Holly cow man! I swear everyone has a different opinion on this, some people say "Just gets rid of the noise and doesn't effect the tone" Its getting hard to know what to think....... Would you say it was a good trade off? or did you feel it ruined your tone? Maybe ruined is too strong a word...but I think you know what I mean. I think it has something to do with resistance or some other electrical word I'm really not smart enough to comment on In laymans terms...when you shield the cavities you are adding to the total amount of "ground" the guitar has...wow, that sounds dumb but thats the only way I know how to put it Maybe someone else can elaborate on what Im trying to say. Was it a good trade-off? Yes. Did it ruin my tone? No.
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Post by play4jc on Sept 5, 2007 14:00:29 GMT -7
gezz didnt think opinions caused augrements, whatever, Lindy Fralin just said the shielding of the cavity and pickguard affects the overall tone, He has several guitars [strats] 1 has the suhr silent coil system, rest dont
Before he installed the suhr system on mine, he let me play his guitar with the silent coil system, turned his amp to 8 and not a whisper of hum, just dont like the idea all 3 pickups have to wired the same, loose some quack on 2 and 4 postion.
I just bought a suhr strat ssh that has the silent system, but they also wired a on/off switch on the 1st tone pot, depending on the room if u need it, adds a touch more definition when its off
He also explaind that John Suhr didnt invent the system, a friend of his did and last year or so, suppose no patent was on it, just lets Suhr use it, Back plate has 200 turns of windings instead of the 1000 plus windings 'silent' single coils have. Im kinda missing the 2 and 4 postion quack, its there a lil with the SCC. Weird tho, i can try any strat etc at my music store and it all seems kinda quiet till I get it home
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Post by dixiechicken on Sept 6, 2007 2:14:46 GMT -7
In so far that shielding, copper and conducting paint interfers with and/or changes the inductance of the coils in the pu:s than shielding will affect tone.
The magnetic fields in the pickups might conceivebly creat magnetically induced eddy currents and electric fields in the copper foil - this could thus affect tone.
It's hard to see how shielding would add/interfere with the DC-resistance in the coils
IMHO to get rid of the hum is worth a lot - a minor tone adjustment to have a humfree noiseless pickup is worth a lot.
Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by thehog107 on Sept 6, 2007 6:17:51 GMT -7
Interesting about John Suhr not inventing the backplate. They should be giving more credit to the inventor.
I know what you mean about the guitars being quiet in the music store.... Very annoying when you get home.
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Post by thehog107 on Sept 6, 2007 6:20:49 GMT -7
The problem is you never know how your tone is going to change until you've done it. I've also noticed (not here) that some people get a bit upset when you mention shielding changes tone...
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Post by dixiechicken on Sept 6, 2007 7:17:01 GMT -7
Yes that's a bit of a problem. And then they say that hindsight is a wonderful thing. ;D Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by dixiechicken on Sept 6, 2007 7:23:23 GMT -7
DC here! I mentioned this in another thread when comparing humbucker pu:s to single coils. (humbucking stacks from Seymour Duncan ) The Tecaster Vintage stacks was to my ears - very very similar to the Telecaster vintage single coils. For the P-90 stacks there was a noticeable difference both in parallel and of course in serial wiring of the two stacks ( 4 conductor wiring ) comparing those with the P-90 stock pickups. As I said I don't mind the difference - for me it was a relief to get rid of the hum. ;D Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by play4jc on Sept 6, 2007 7:54:39 GMT -7
Im with Dixiechicken, lil tone difference is well worth not hearing the noise, I do love a true single coil sound until I get home or at Church I use anderson pickups alot for neck and middle. Even Roy at Anderson told me the noise doesnt bother him, he wants the tone. Anderson wires some guitars if not all to be able to go from paraell to series wiring, thats kinda cool, They have a "M" series pickup thats bigger than life and single coil and noiseless, lil bigger than a single coil, but man is she sweet. I have only 1 guitar now that is not 'noiseless' and its bugging me to death. Its a expensive road to find a noiseless tone in single coil that suits your ear. vintagestacks are way cool, didnt like the dimarzio area pickups, but i didnt have them that long either. Fender vintage noiseless are ok, i dont like the scn's, unless you go with Lollar, Kinmans and others I cant think of right now, Im kinda scared to pay over 300.00 for bardens and not like 'em.
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