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Post by garyh on Sept 21, 2006 21:17:25 GMT -7
Well I went to try out a Lovepedal eternity at the sellers house the other night. He had some nice gear; a Bad Cat Cub 15R, and a Gibson Historic Custom shop LP Special in TV yellow. I commented on how much I liked P-90s and was kind of looking for one when he says he has another guitar with P-90s.
He brought out goldtop Tokai LP 56' reissue copy. Now I've been thinking about my old Gibby LP goldtop with soapbars I sold back in the 70's a lot lately wishing I still had it and basically there it was. I plugged the Tokai into the Bad Cat and wow! He must have P-100s in his other LP because it didn't sound this good.
He wouldn't sell it though. He and his son (great player-was playing through a Hiwatt in the basement while I was upstairs) loved the guitar. Anyway, I picked up the pedal. When I got home, he called and I ran over and bought that too. Couldn't let it get away. I've been jonesing for two things for some time; an eternity and a goldtop P-90 laden LP. Amazing night and talk about karma.
The guitar sounds awesome through my Maz 18 (Yes, better than through his Bad Cat) but the pickups hum like mothers. Fine until you step on an overdrive. I'm going to try mega shielding everywhere in this guit first but may have to replace the pickups. Any suggestions? I know Lollars are great but are they noisey too? I've heard of stacked P-90s but really want the pure soapbar sound. Does anyone have experience with this........replacing P-90s or eliminating most of the hum? As a very last resort, I could go with mini humbuckers but really don't want to do that. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2006 21:34:24 GMT -7
Hi Garyh! Suhr is close to releasing a version of their Silent Single Coil system for P-90 equipped guitars. They already have them for their own guitars with P-90s but not yet for other production guitar makes. Very soon though! I hear the Lollars are great and would probably be less noisy than the Tokai issue pickups. They would still have hum being a P-90. I would get either the Lollars for the time being and wait on the Silent single coils system, or if you are happy with the stock pickups, then grab the SSC system for P-90s when it comes out.
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Post by garyh on Sept 21, 2006 21:38:59 GMT -7
Great tip Arun. The SSC system is pretty expensive but that's a great idea. I would go for Suhr's system first though and get the Lollars later methinks.
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Post by seaking on Sept 22, 2006 4:55:15 GMT -7
Hey Gary,
Congrats on the Tokai, I love gold tops too. You mentioned shielding as one option. I did a shielding job using copper tape on a Mexican power house strat a few years back. Depending on what angle i stood in relation to the amp, it made a lot of difference to almost no difference. When i found the sweet spot (angle) it made it all worthwhile.
Still have loads of copper tape left over ( was a fairly big roll )If you need some to do yours, send me a PM.
Bill
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Post by guitarstan on Sept 22, 2006 6:10:20 GMT -7
I just wanted to chime in on this because it is a topic of great interest to me. I had a 71' Gold top LP with P-90's as my main guitar back in 1971, kept it for 30 years and traded it for a PRS triple soapbar for two reasons. The LP was very heavy and I'm gettin old, excuse, I am old and getting decrepit. And two because the PRS has some kind of noise canceling thing going on. Of course I wish I still had my LP and have been watching the RI's on eBay but can't make myself pay over $2K for a heavy noisy guitar. Plus I am now spoiled with my TAG which has a wonderful slim neck to die for. The PRS triple soap gives me all the sounds of the LP and then some and with way less hum.
Just my 2 cents....
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Post by garyh on Sept 22, 2006 8:34:00 GMT -7
At 56, I'm not young either. The guitar isn't much heavier than my PRS but probably what I should have done was to change my PRS pickups out for hum-sized P-90s. I haven't been playing my custom; prefer the sound of single coils and the P-90s in the Tokai sound better to me than my strat at the moment (I change my mind frequently so that could change).
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Post by guitarstan on Sept 22, 2006 9:19:41 GMT -7
Yea you ain't no spring chicken either ;D. I love the sound of a P-90 and tend to use them at most gigs. I would love to have another 2 PUP P-90 but haven't fallen for anything yet. I would like to hear a Gibson Black Beauty with the P-90 but they are a little pricey. Tom Anderson makes one on occasion but have not heard one. Hope I didn't steal this thread
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Post by billyguitar on Sept 22, 2006 11:45:26 GMT -7
I have a Lentz DL90 on order. It has two of his design P90s. It will be hum cancelling in the both position but I'm hoping that the hum won't be too bad on the one pickup settings. If it is I'll definitely try the Suhr thing. That could be a lifesaver.
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Post by bks on Sept 22, 2006 12:28:23 GMT -7
Fralin does the reverse-wind trick so his P-90s, like the Lentz, are hum-cancelling in the "both" position. I had a set of Fralin's P-92s in a PRS that were very quiet (they're staggered, like a P-Bass pickup). I made the mistake of getting them a little overwound, but they're great sounding pickups. I got rid of the PRS, but I've kept the pickups...
Brian
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Post by guitarstan on Sept 22, 2006 12:40:56 GMT -7
Billy,
I hope you will report on the Lentz when youv'e had a chance to work with it. The fact that BW uses them is really all I need to know but I enjoy stalking gear'age ;D.
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Post by billyguitar on Sept 22, 2006 20:00:21 GMT -7
I'll definitely talk about it when it arrives. I'm not going to pester him about a ship date. I want it to be a relaxed build and I want to be seen as a "good" customer. I'm not saying I think Scott will make anything less than a great guitar, what I'm saying is it's my superstitious way of helping the guitar be the best it can be.
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Post by seaking on Sept 23, 2006 19:43:35 GMT -7
Thought I'd slip in a few pics of Gary's new Gold Top. She's a sweet Gibby copy and i can attest that he can make her sing. Thanks for the demo last night Gary, sounded beautiful
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Post by seaking on Sept 23, 2006 19:45:12 GMT -7
Guess the other pic didn't show. Here it is
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Post by dock66 on Sept 23, 2006 20:53:47 GMT -7
That is sweet Tokia.
dock66
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Post by billyguitar on Sept 23, 2006 21:17:24 GMT -7
Nothin' wrong with that!
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Post by dock66 on Sept 24, 2006 12:47:14 GMT -7
Guess the other pic didn't show. Here it is Looking into buying one myself.These are suppose to be the best LP copy from what i have been told. dock66
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Post by nitehawk55 on Sept 24, 2006 15:12:17 GMT -7
Well GAS got the better of me last night and I purchased a couple guitars on ebay . One is an all mahogany 2003 PRS McCarty item # 200029242097 with the P90's And the other a 1997 LP Standard # 250032613242 to replace a 1995 I stupidly sold when I quit music for 5 years and sold everything but my Beneteau acoustic.....don't ever sell everything , very bad mistake !! I don't know how to post the direct links to the items on ebay so perhaps someone could do it for me and perhaps try and tell me how to in real easy to understand terms
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Post by Hohn on Sept 25, 2006 12:30:03 GMT -7
A lot of seventysomething Tokais were, as U2 might say, "even better than the real thing."
Congrats on a great fiddle!
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Post by seaking on Sept 30, 2006 7:02:41 GMT -7
Hey Gary,
So how are you making out with the hum issue? I know you wanted to try shielding and from previous comments, i sensed that you're technique was a lot more thorough than what I've used in the past.
The pups in your gold top sound pretty nice. it would be a shame to have to replace them for this one issue. I have more hum issues with my tele since installing more vintage sounding and stronger single coil pups and was thinking about a shielding job also.
So if you get some positive results regarding... let us know the steps you took.
Bill
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Post by GuitarZ on Sept 30, 2006 7:47:32 GMT -7
I have a 68 Les Paul with Soapbars. Love the sound. Hate the hum. I swapped in the Dimarzio humbucking Soapbars. I felt that they captured the sound reasonably well, but the sensitivity felt different. They just didn't feel as alive. In the end, I just couldn't get use to seeing the double row of pole pieces. I did the shielding thing a few months back, rewired it with some very good shielded cable, and did the star grounding. In my house where I have the hum problem, I'm not sure that it made any difference. On the plus side, it really wasn't that hard and didn't take too much time to drop in the shielding. Let us know if you have any better luck. If you're a middle position pickup guy, a few folks make the P90s with the reverse wiring when you buy a pair. That Tokai might look like my old warhourse 40 years from now. I don't particularly like the finishes on new Gibson Gold Tops, but that Tokai looks very nice.
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Post by garyh on Sept 30, 2006 16:58:57 GMT -7
That's a beautiful Les Paul GutarZ. I didn't make out too well with the shielding, Bill. I went to town with it; put your copper tape everywhere, soldered the pieces together, etc. Then I put the guitar back together and it wouldn't work. So I got p'd off and ripped all the shielding out. Turns out when I put the guitar back together, I put a pickup screw clean through the wire that goes from the switch to the pots.
Just finished rewiring it and put it back together. I guess I did it right because it works. I played it for about an hour and man it sounds great, except for the hum of course. I have a couple of old MXR noise gates so I used one for when I kicked in an overdrive.....so sweet; growl in the bottom end and creamy in the top end; just awesome.
Actually yesterday I ordered two of the Dimarzio virtual P-90s to see what that's all about. I'd rather keep the stock pickups in her but didn't have much luck with the shielding and don't want to go through that again really. Hope I have better luck than you GuitarZ. I thought about getting the Lace stacked P-90s; they have the single row of pole pieces but didn't see much in the way of reviews and I think you have to rout the guitar deeper to fit them in so I went with the Dimarzios. I also saw that Carl Verheyan and Eric Ambel use them so well, we'll see.
Oh, I used to be a middle position guy when I used my old Deluxe. I don't remember why but maybe it was because of hum cancelling. My Tokai is wired to get the hum cancellation in the middle position already but I use either the bridge or neck by themselves nowadays. I only use the parallel positions with my strat if I'm doing some country or some Dire Straits.
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Post by GuitarZ on Oct 1, 2006 5:15:53 GMT -7
Well, you were the one to push me over to the Kinmans. I think you'll like the Dimarzios. I think they're like the Kinmans. They aren't exactly single coils, but they have a good and similar sound and their own thing is pretty darn good.
I have 40 years in with my Les Paul. So any little change just doesn't feel right. They were close enough that I would have loved to A/B them. The bridge pickup was the one that stuck out a little for me. I have to admit that I didn't try to tune it in too much. And in the end, after 40 years of staring at the single row of pole pieces, I just couldn't get to use to the double row.
Heck, I probably would have had the visual problem even with a stacked humbucker with a single row of pole pieces. My pickup covers are pretty worn in spots and I probably couldn't have gotten use to the newness of the look from any pickups.
Good luck. Let us know how they work.
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Post by seaking on Oct 3, 2006 11:37:21 GMT -7
Hey Gary, Sorry to hear about the shielding outcome. I was hoping shielding would give you some low budget satisfaction. Perhaps the new pick ups will work out better for ya; if not, I'll be a real friend and take that noisy problem off your hands ;D. Bill
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Post by garyh on Oct 4, 2006 17:20:32 GMT -7
Thanks for the offer Bill.
I can't believe they came so quickly but my pickups arrived today (Dimarzio virtual P-90s). Usually stuff from the States take about three weeks to get here but this was only six days. I'm at home with the flu but couldn't resist plugging in the soldering iron a having a go at it. Here are my first impressions.
Yes, they sound like P-90s. I do prefer the Tokai's stock pickups but these are pretty well noiseless being humbuckers. The midrange is all there. These pickups have more high end; not quite as creamy highs but pretty good. I'm not able to compare them to a really good P-90 though so good ones may have that high end too. I liked the stock Tokai's a lot though.
I'm not liking the pickup in the neck position as much as the bridge. I find there's not enough high end there; not clear enough and too quick to overdrive. It's going to take some time to experiment with pickup height and get used to them but for the moment I'm happy with the bridge pup.
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