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Post by Hohn on Aug 7, 2006 16:14:55 GMT -7
My Zion Tele sounds NOTHING like a country-fried Tele when I play on the bridge.
What are the key ingredients of chikn pikn tone? I've read somewhere that light strings and low action are part of the recipe, which would explain why I'm so far off the country Tone.
Are my Barden pups capable of country tone? Listening to Danny Gatton, I'd have to say they are, but not in my hands, lol!
I just listened to the video of BW and RC laying it down on Folsom Prison Blues, and I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor.
Where am I going with this? Well, I'm interested in assembling a partsecaster w/ Warmoth goodies, and I'd like to see if I can make a good country fiddle.
Of all the styles out there, Country evades me the most. Any idea where I can start for trying to learn? Most of it happens to fast that I can't really slow it down in my head enough to learn it.
jh
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Post by tele1962 on Aug 7, 2006 16:42:36 GMT -7
The two guys that grabbed me are James Burton and Brent Mason. I believe there's instructional videos from both gentlemen. A lot of it is in the hands, and using the fingers on the right hand to pluck as well as flat picking at the same time. You get a "roll" effect this way, and combined with a series of serious "hammer-ons" and "pull-offs", this is the basics of the chicken pickin' technique and style. As to equipment, you don't need Warmoths, Tigermoths, Mothballs, Bardens, Kinmann's, hyper compression, depression, obsession or any variety of effects at all. I didn't say all this stuff isn't good...you just don't need it. The Rx is one Fender Telecaster, preferrably with Fender PU's ( yes Custom Shop ones are fine) and a Fender all tube amp that sounds as close to a 60's Blackface as you can get. I can get very close on a Maz Jr Reverb 2X10. Then stay as far away from big old baler twine strings as you can get. .009 to 042's are wonderful. Just stay there! Let that good amp do some of the work ! If it makes sense so far, let me know. We can get into set up as well.
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Post by rcrecelius on Aug 10, 2006 6:43:22 GMT -7
tele1962 makes some good points...some I agree with and some I dont BW and I both use 11-49 strings so you can twang with heavier strings. I will admit though, some teles do sound better or "more country" with lighter strings so you'll just have to experiment in that department. Right hand technique along with the hammer ons/pull offs is definitely a big part of chickin pickin country...also, double stops are used a lot as well. A Fender tele into a Fender Twin is pretty much the "default" for classic tele sounds but you cen get there with a Z too. I went back and looked at your Zions again...absolutely beautiful guitars. About those Bardens...Im betting your Zion tele is gonna have a darker tone than some teles due to the hollow body, thick bridge plate and rosewood neck...but then again, Ive heard that the Bardens can be bright so thats up in the air...and I have no personal experience with Barden pickups. Personally, I prefer traditional single coil pickups for country. For a proper introduction to country tele playing, get your hands on some old Buck Owens and Merle Haggard recordings...a lot of the old albums have been released on CD now(Rhino records I believe) so you dont have to listen between the scratches/skips like I did when I was learning So, I'd suggest plugging that tele straight into whatever amp your using(did you mention what youre using BTW?) and see how close you can get to a chickin pickin tele tone and go from there. A lot of people prefer to use a compressor for country...I used to be one of em myself but I dont use one anymore...I feel I can sound more like "me" without the compressor. YMMV of course.
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Post by (8^D) on Aug 10, 2006 10:07:29 GMT -7
Continuing with some of the above thoughts, the majority of the c-p'n sound is in the right hand technique. "The Claw" as it was described to me once upon a time: Pick between thumb and index finger, and poppin' the strings with the middle/ring/pinki. Use the pick for bass lines and the fingers for poppin' single notes and double stops. You don't 'strum' rhythm in Country as you would in rock/pop/blues. It's more of a percussive pluck combining the bass/double stop. ---------------------- Many of the great reference/go-to country players were self taught. W/that in mind, an easy way to get started w/leads is to think about 'box' patterns for leads over the I IV V changes...part of the cool sound is the use of minor and major pentatonics, and mixolydian modes (outlining Dominate 7th chords) over the changes. Gets you part of the 'outside' sound...because the early pioneers didn't know any better. Don't over think it, play some basic pents and throw in passing notes (chromatic) w/in the box pattern and you'll be surprised at the sound. Experiment. Open runs are the same...for starters, think about box patterns overlaying an open or barred chord pulled off in triplet patterns. ---------------------- Another tonal element is compression. If you have a low wattage amp that compresses at gig level, you don't necessarily need a pedal compressor. However, if you're after the Urban, Paisley, Mason, et al tone, a good compressor would be a great idea - to get that Nashville 'squish' tone. That said, I'm a huge fan of the Keeley Comp. If you're wanting to get something less expensive to play with, hunt for a used Boss CS-2 (precursor to the CS-3, it doesn't have the tone control and generally sounds better). ---------------------- Running the amp clean or with just a touch of 'hair' (for the more contemporary tones) helps. Flat mids, brighter top end and a tight punchy bass tone. Use light/med OD or a clean boost to push the amp, rather than Dist for drive tones and a slap-back delay (Albert Lee, Vince Gill, Haggard, Mason, etc would have great delay examples). ---------------------- Personally, I've found the guitar used to be the lesser of the tone elements in the equation - there've been killer country tones using Teles, Strats, Les Pauls, hollow, semi-hollow, P90 varieties, single coils, humbuckers, active, passive, etc. It's more about the person playing the guitar than the guitar; and, how the rest of the signal path is setup. ---------------------- Reference materials: Arlen Roth's "Masters of the Telecaser" (DVD or CD w/Book) Johnny Hiland "Chicken Picken' Guitar" (Hot Licks Video - only available used now) Troy Dexter "50 Licks Country Style" (Starlicks Video) Brent Mason "Nashville Chops and Western Swing Guitar" (Hot Licks Video - only available used now) Alan Jackson's Greatest Hits (features a lot of great Mason playing) I was a rock player that went country not too long ago - and got schooled in the TX clubs by some great players...including Mr. Ronnie above...learning about gear, techniques, who to listen to, etc. The items mentioned above were the quick-wins I picked up and really helped me jump along. And, that's the sum of all my knowledge...hope it helps a bit.
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Post by Bill on Aug 10, 2006 10:23:00 GMT -7
Well Hohn, first of all you need a "Ray. Oh, you already have one?? ;D Can't add much to what the fine players above have said, but if you can't hook up a private lesson with rc or Jayson, try this out for now: Doug Seven
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Post by tele1962 on Aug 10, 2006 16:09:36 GMT -7
Pretty much I think everyone had the same things to say. At least the vibe for the whole thing is set up pretty well. Unless you have very strong hands and a lot of playing experience, the big fat strings won't give instant gratification. That's why the .009 - .042 suggestion. You can get there easier this way. Hell, what do I care...if you are strong enough, can pop big strings, and want to put that pressure on the guitar neck, go nuts. .013 - .056's are very acceptable.
Even better .015's - .065's. That'll put all of us to shame.
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Post by tele1962 on Aug 10, 2006 16:25:48 GMT -7
Right hand technique along with the hammer ons/pull offs is definitely a big part of chickin pickin country...also, double stops are used a lot as well. ( Big Kahuna) A lot of it is in the hands, and using the fingers on the right hand to pluck as well as flat picking at the same time. You get a "roll" effect this way, and combined with a series of serious "hammer-ons" and "pull-offs", this is the basics of the chicken pickin' technique and style. ( Tele 1962) Same message, different reporting style, Hohn! "A Fender tele into a Fender Twin is pretty much the "default" for classic tele sounds but you cen get there with a Z too." ( Big Kahuna) "The Rx is one Fender Telecaster, preferrably with Fender PU's ( yes Custom Shop ones are fine) and a Fender all tube amp that sounds as close to a 60's Blackface as you can get. I can get very close on a Maz Jr Reverb 2X10." (Tele 1962) Almost exactly the same stuff, Hohn. "Ive heard that the Bardens can be bright so thats up in the air...and I have no personal experience with Barden pickups. Personally, I prefer traditional single coil pickups for country." ( Big Kahuna) "As to equipment, you don't need Warmoths, Tigermoths, Mothballs, Bardens, Kinmann's, hyper compression, depression, obsession or any variety of effects at all. I didn't say all this stuff isn't good...you just don't need it." (Tele 1962) Same message on PU's, and a little "value added" on the rest of it. "So, I'd suggest plugging that tele straight into whatever amp your using(did you mention what youre using BTW?) and see how close you can get to a chickin pickin tele tone and go from there. A lot of people prefer to use a compressor for country...I used to be one of em myself but I dont use one anymore...I feel I can sound more like "me" without the compressor. YMMV of course. " ( Big Kahuna) "The Rx is one Fender Telecaster, preferrably with Fender PU's ( yes Custom Shop ones are fine) and a Fender all tube amp that sounds as close to a 60's Blackface as you can get. I can get very close on a Maz Jr Reverb 2X10." ( Tele 1962) Same message. Keep it simple and direct. Tell you what. Listen to Kahuna. He's got more Karma, and might be more famous.
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Post by rcrecelius on Aug 10, 2006 16:43:00 GMT -7
tele1962, I only put my 2 cents in and now I think I might have some change coming back He's right, we all have prety much the same message. And now for the most important one...practice practice practice!
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Post by Hohn on Aug 10, 2006 17:49:21 GMT -7
I'll be sure and practice, but I've had a time lately trying to squeeze that practice in between moving to Hawaii, selling the house, being buried at work, selling a car, buying a car, and caring from my cantankerous-because-she-got-an-ear-infection 17mo daughter:)
I'm not getting enough "string time" to be happy lately, but I can't put my finger on why:)
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Post by billyguitar on Aug 10, 2006 18:36:10 GMT -7
I've read that some say skinny strings are a part of the sound. I'd say they slap and pop more.
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Post by Curt on Aug 10, 2006 21:29:35 GMT -7
I'll defer to Ronnie on this one, he is quite profecient (sp?).
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nickg
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by nickg on Aug 16, 2006 18:30:16 GMT -7
Tell you what. Listen to Kahuna. He's got more Karma, and might be more famous. Hey tele1962, "big kahuna" isn't that poster's name lol . Its "rcrecelius" or ronnie. Big kahuna is a title you get when you get past 500 posts on this forum. Like your title is "full member" as you have more than 100 posts. Unless you were joking??
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Post by rcrecelius on Aug 17, 2006 6:53:48 GMT -7
Tell you what. Listen to Kahuna. He's got more Karma, and might be more famous. Hey tele1962, "big kahuna" isn't that poster's name lol . Its "rcrecelius" or ronnie. Big kahuna is a title you get when you get past 500 posts on this forum. Like your title is "full member" as you have more than 100 posts. Unless you were joking?? hehe...I didnt catch that earlier...of course at 6' 5" and 350lbs I just might qualify as a Big Kahuna!
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Post by sonicgator on Aug 19, 2006 18:56:54 GMT -7
Well Hohn, first of all you need a "Ray. Oh, you already have one?? ;D Can't add much to what the fine players above have said, but if you can't hook up a private lesson with rc or Jayson, try this out for now: Doug SevenThanks for the link...looks like a good DVD set.
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Post by guitarstan on Aug 25, 2006 6:30:34 GMT -7
Madison,
Doug Seven is a bit younger than me and probably takes vitamins and exercises regularly. Uh, if you have one of his videos could you tell me if he slows it down just a tad or not?
Wow.....hot......maybe I should just quit before my fingers catch fire :^>
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Post by Bill on Aug 25, 2006 6:48:29 GMT -7
Madison, Doug Seven is a bit younger than me and probably takes vitamins and exercises regularly. Uh, if you have one of his videos could you tell me if he slows it down just a tad or not? Wow.....hot......maybe I should just quit before my fingers catch fire :^> I love listening to these "lesser known" country pickers like Doug, and on this forum, Jayson and rc...all are blessed with TONS of talent. Not that he's in the "lesser known" category, but someone recently gave me a copy of the Byrds/ Fillmore '69 with Clarence White on B bender Tele...WOW, that's yet another style I need to work on! I studied him for a couple hours last night. Back to Doug: I have both of his DVD's. Doug is a friendly, humble, killer picker who will talk at length via email if you have any questions. Yes, he sets the stage by first describing the lick he's about to perform, he plays it very slow, then faster...then at his blazing speed which I'll never be able to do. BUT, I have been able to easily learn what he's doing...I just can't pull it off near as clean or fast. It is a low production product, no bells and whistles, just a good straight forward approach to making one a better country/hybrid picker. I think you'd like them, guitarstan! ;D
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Post by Curt on Aug 25, 2006 8:44:35 GMT -7
I gotta get them...lord knows I NEED them
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Post by tele1962 on Aug 31, 2006 20:27:59 GMT -7
"Hey tele1962, "big kahuna" isn't that poster's name lol . Its "rcrecelius" or ronnie. Big kahuna is a title you get when you get past 500 posts on this forum. Like your title is "full member" as you have more than 100 posts.
Unless you were joking?? "
Yes. Having one's tongue in one's cheek certainly wouldn't constitute a lack of preception or prevent one from being informed or indeed, from time to time...informative.
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Post by tele1962 on Aug 31, 2006 20:30:53 GMT -7
"I'll defer to Ronnie on this one, he is quite profecient (sp?). " Frontrunner!!! 'Proficient is closer.' Check with Ronnie!
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