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Post by billyguitar on Aug 2, 2006 13:00:47 GMT -7
I started off playing Gibsons so I've always been accustomed to the (I assume) 12" radius. About 5 years ago I swapped into a '52 reissue Tele and promptly had the fingerboard reradiused to a 10" to 16" compound radius and new frets installed so I never used it with it's 7-1/4" radius. Now I have a Lentz DL90 on order and Scott pretty much insists on the 9.5" radius. He says you actually don't have to bend the note as far for the same pitch change, as opposed to a 12" or greater radius. I asked Buddy W. in another thread how he liked it and he said he did, a lot and he said he didn't have any problems with a note "bending out". So I'm going to have a 9.5" radius neck and just wondering what you guys think of similar guitars? ps: I forgot, I did have an American standard Tele for a while back in the late 90s. As I recall it played pretty well but there were other issues that were irreconcileable so it went away pretty quickly.
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Post by Curt on Aug 2, 2006 13:10:30 GMT -7
Billy, a 9.5 rad with 6105 (med. jumbo) frets is my prefered neck. Anderson does not share their rad but I would guess 10 to 16 compound.
I think Gibsons usually have a 10" rad. FWIW.
This all confused me for so long I just researched the hell out of it 'tilI got enuf answers to satisfy me.
Again, to me, a 9.5 rad on a 25.5 scale with fairly large frets is perfect.
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Post by billyguitar on Aug 2, 2006 13:49:13 GMT -7
The Lentz will have the 6105s. That's what I have on that Tele I mentioned and my old Epi Triumph. I like that fret a lot. I notice a lot of Groshes with 6105s too. Isn't 9.5" radius the standard Fender radius now-a-days?
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Post by kruzty on Aug 2, 2006 14:28:26 GMT -7
The Lentz will have the 6105s. That's what I have on that Tele I mentioned and my old Epi Triumph. I like that fret a lot. I notice a lot of Groshes with 6105s too. Isn't 9.5" radius the standard Fender radius now-a-days? Yep, that's what my American Standard Tele is, and I love that neck!
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arthur
Junior Member
Posts: 85
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Post by arthur on Aug 2, 2006 21:58:19 GMT -7
That's interesting about bending distance....
I had my 335 and 175 both refretted with 16inch radii, I believe. They play great. No problems with fretting out.
I also like the compound radius on my Warmouth strat neck.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 5, 2006 9:03:26 GMT -7
When I bought my Grosh Tele, I could tell the radius wasn't standard. That guitar was a special order and the guy got impatient and bought something else before it came in. So I ended up with it. But he ordered a really wide flat neck, and to be honest, I can't get along with it. I love the standard radius on my Strat but that Tele is just too flat. So I'm going to send it back and have a different neck put on - with the 9.5 radius. I can bend so much easier with that radius!
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Post by billyguitar on Aug 5, 2006 10:26:57 GMT -7
Who'd a thunk it!
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Post by jwr on Aug 5, 2006 10:54:04 GMT -7
I'm also a Warmoth strat guy. Love the compound radius. It'll be interesting to see how you like the Lentz Billy, looking forward to hearing all about it. Jason
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Post by Rockville on Aug 5, 2006 14:19:48 GMT -7
I must admit I prefer the Strat neck to eg the Les Paul Standard neck, and I'm seriously considering getting a Strat with a 7.5 radius neck. The only problem is here in the UK we don't have Sweetwater and the stores tend to stock 9.5 radius Strats. My old Strat I think originally had a 7.5 radius neck but it was less than perfect so I had John Birch rip off the rosewood fingerboard and replace it with rock maple, I also had the bridge engineered from brass to give a bit more room at the edge of the fingerboard, so I've no idea what the radius is now although I suppose I could work it out if I could be bothered. The thing with necks I believe IMO is the less the radius the easier it is to vibrato, in fact if you get any guitar and angle it forward slightly vibrato seems easier... to me anyway! So it follows that reducing the radius makes it easier to vibrato at least the top two or three strings. It also gives a better more natural feel for layovers and stuff.
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Post by sonicgator on Aug 5, 2006 14:54:42 GMT -7
The best necks I have played have all been either 9.5" or 10" radius necks. I have an EVH Music Man and PRS McCarty Rosewood, both with the 10" radius and have a 9.5" Strat that all have what I think are just great feel from the necks.
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Post by Rockville on Aug 5, 2006 15:28:37 GMT -7
The best necks I have played have all been either 9.5" or 10" radius necks. I have an EVH Music Man and PRS McCarty Rosewood, both with the 10" radius and have a 9.5" Strat that all have what I think are just great feel from the necks. I remember when I was buying an Ibanez 24fret job to replace a guitar I had stolen, I tried various Ibanez guitars to try and get a feel for the different necks. Anyway I tried one that was absolutely amazing, and quite cheap as well. The only problem was it looked totally horrible, a lilac colour. I wish now I had bought it for recording.
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Post by travsbluz on Aug 5, 2006 15:28:44 GMT -7
I've had vintage re-issue Fender, modern Fender, Vintage style Gibson, and a modern Compound Radius. Out of all of them I like the 9.5 to 12" radius the most. Vintage 7.25" radius "fret out" (especially the B and high E)when making larger bends ala Albert King. The 9.5" radius don't fret out if you like Higher(er) action 10" to 12" radius seem to bend real easy, but also seem to be common on Gibson style scale lengths. so I'm not sure if the easy bending is from the shorter scale or the radius. But they sure are comfortable. I have a Jon Kammerer guitar that I originally ordered with a 12" to 16" compound radius and I found that it was very uncomfortable for me especially around the 12th fret and higher. I've since called him and we worked out a deal for a new neck with a 8" to 12" compound radius and it plays wonderfully now If there are any stores close by to you that have any American Standard/Series fenders in stock I'm pretty sure that they are a 9.5" neck radius. You could stop in and check one out
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Post by Rockville on Aug 5, 2006 16:50:57 GMT -7
I've had vintage re-issue Fender, modern Fender, Vintage style Gibson, and a modern Compound Radius. Out of all of them I like the 9.5 to 12" radius the most. Vintage 7.25" radius "fret out" (especially the B and high E)when making larger bends ala Albert King. The 9.5" radius don't fret out if you like Higher(er) action 10" to 12" radius seem to bend real easy, but also seem to be common on Gibson style scale lengths. so I'm not sure if the easy bending is from the shorter scale or the radius. But they sure are comfortable. I have a Jon Kammerer guitar that I originally ordered with a 12" to 16" compound radius and I found that it was very uncomfortable for me especially around the 12th fret and higher. I've since called him and we worked out a deal for a new neck with a 8" to 12" compound radius and it plays wonderfully now If there are any stores close by to you that have any American Standard/Series fenders in stock I'm pretty sure that they are a 9.5" neck radius. You could stop in and check one out detune one semitone and raise the action as high as you can...you get great sustain, great tone, and after a while you get used to it as long as you don't want to shred. Sounds good to my ears with 9's.
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Post by billyguitar on Aug 5, 2006 19:15:13 GMT -7
I read a lot of chord charts with my band and I'm not good at transposing. No detuning around here.
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Post by nitehawk55 on Aug 6, 2006 9:16:55 GMT -7
I think the size/length of your hands and fingers make a lot of difference in how well different neck radius's and shapes work for you . It will never be a case of one size suits all .
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Post by billyguitar on Aug 6, 2006 11:32:03 GMT -7
I have small hands but always liked thicker necks for the support. I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the relationship between hand size and fingerboard radius. I'm confident I'll get along with the neck fine, after the muscle memory adapts.
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Post by nitehawk55 on Aug 6, 2006 14:20:50 GMT -7
I have small hands but always liked thicker necks for the support. I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the relationship between hand size and fingerboard radius. I'm confident I'll get along with the neck fine, after the muscle memory adapts. The size of hand and fingers has a lot to do with how well you may or may not like a certain neck and radius . I have small hands too and do not like a thin neck which gets uncomfortable , I prefer the fuller support as you do . I have a 52 Tele reissue with the 7 1/2" and I like it better for rythem playing because it allows me to get my thumb around to the E much easier than a flatter radius . Most necks suit me OK in certain ways and it's all in getting used to them to some degree but there are some that will never feel right . Some guitars when you first pick them up will quickly feel great or not .
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Post by sonicgator on Aug 6, 2006 16:33:57 GMT -7
Anyone played a Carvin Holdsworth model? They have a 20" radius. I inquired about one for sale online once and the seller said it was like playing a baseball bat...not exactly something that would make me jump on an $800 guitar unplayed and unseen!
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Post by Hohn on Aug 6, 2006 18:44:27 GMT -7
If, you've ever seen Holdsworth's hands, you'd know what he can play a 20" radius. HUGE hands and LONG fingers.
Both of Zions have 12", but the Strat is a 1 5/8" string spacing and the Tele is 1 11/16". Consequently, the Strat neck feels a little rounder to me. Even with the same radii, the necks feel VERy different. The narrower neck of the strat has a lot of finish on it, and the stickiness makes it somewhat fatiguing to play. The Tele has a satin finish, and even though the neck is a little bigger in the hand (wider, not thicker), it's less fatiguing to play.
I think I'm gonna bust out the Scotch Brite to the Strat neck to see if I can't satinize (as opposed to sanitize) the finish a little, and just break that gloss that makes it feel a little less playable.
jh
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Post by Curt on Aug 6, 2006 21:07:09 GMT -7
Hohn, If I need to knock the sticky off I use 0000 steel wool (put tape on you pup mags !) after the gloss is off I wipe baby powder on the neck and lightly hit it with the steel wool again.
Amazing insto-vintage neck feel.
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Post by Hohn on Aug 8, 2006 10:03:19 GMT -7
I didn't have any four-ott steel wool, but the scotch brite did pretty nice. It took off more finish that I thought it would, but it's not down to the wood at all. It feels GREAT!
I also did your baby powder trick (having a toddler has some nice bennies) and this guitar is just too good to be true!
Oddly enough, the Tele already had a satin finish on it....
jh
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Post by billyguitar on Aug 8, 2006 15:20:36 GMT -7
Find a picture of Ray Flacke's guitar to see some baby powder!
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Post by Hohn on Aug 11, 2006 8:32:39 GMT -7
I picked up some steel wool and MAN-- it's like an old fiddle-- in a good way. It just feels superb.
I used to steel wool my acoustic's neck when I did it all up, but I never thought to use it on a guitar with gloss finish on the neck. (acoustic is oil fin)
It's made the guitar a lot less fatiguing to play, but the weird thing is that it's seems to have noticeably more resonance to it now. I mean, it's unmistakable. You can feel it in your hand, and the the strings don't decay as fast after initial attack-- more sustain now and a slightly different envelope.
I LOVE IT!! Of the two Zions, I was always partial to the Tele and never knew why. Now the Strat is #1, and I'm having a great time playing this thing!
It's always the littlest things that make the biggest difference, eh?
Justin
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Post by Curt on Aug 12, 2006 23:05:02 GMT -7
It is amazing. I was way unhappy with a sticky neck and tried many things. I came up with this method and have been happy for quite awhile with it. Another that works well if you have a really high $$ fiddle or one you do not want to steel wool is, providing it is a NITRO finish, it is common for the nitro to not be cured, even if it is several years old. Get an old T-Shirt thats nice and soft and with the guitar face down on a solid soft surface, rub the rear of the neck with the T shirt with heavy pressure and a fast pace to build heat in the Nitro. do this 'til your arms are tired, let it cool and repeat. you'll be amazed, it will look the same but no more stickyness Curt
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Post by Hohn on Aug 13, 2006 11:01:21 GMT -7
We'll I'd sorta consider these Zions to be higher dollar fiddles, but they will never be for sale, so I'm not averse to doin' what it takes for ME!!
jh
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Post by drew on Aug 14, 2006 9:56:25 GMT -7
The Lentz will have the 6105s. That's what I have on that Tele I mentioned and my old Epi Triumph. I like that fret a lot. I notice a lot of Groshes with 6105s too. Isn't 9.5" radius the standard Fender radius now-a-days? Yep, according to the fender website for stats. I've a newer strat and it's a 9.5. It works perfectly for me. I've a tele neck with a maple fretbard what must be 7.5 or less as I was frequently fretting out on large bends past the 12th fret. It drove me crazy. Mike Lull (Redmond WA) installed larger frets (don't remember the exact size) and slightly smoothed out the radius starting at the 13th fret. It's much better now. However, for slide it's still a little too much arch for me, the 9.5 strat is OK for slide and my LP is ever better, for me at least.
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Post by Telemanic on Aug 16, 2006 12:25:13 GMT -7
Different strokes for different folks it seems. I love a vintage radius fender, but gotta get some work done on either the frets or the board so it doesnt fret out. My current tech has an awesome technique for workin the frets rather than flatening the board, to prevent muting out on big bends. I was sceptical at first, but i have to say its the best fret job and subsequent set up ive had to date.
It seems like the more inclined a player is to do fast articulte lead work, the flatter his fret board preference, and conversley players who really relish rythym work like more vintage radius, when i play it makes sense to me, but theres always the exceptions. To me chording just feels right with a healthy radius! That 20" thing would feel like a 2x4 with strings to me!!!
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Post by billyguitar on Aug 16, 2006 13:13:56 GMT -7
I've always liked Silvertone/Danos and they are ruler flat. Gretsches and classicals too, I believe. I don't really care unless you can't do a bend.
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