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Post by muzacman02 "Jamie" on Jan 23, 2012 8:56:02 GMT -7
I would like to rewire my Eppy Deluxe Standard Les Paul with new Pots and Caps, I'm running Handwired Mojotone PAF's and a .15 cap on the Neck and a .22 on the Bridge. I heard someone mention 50's wiring? I am trying to acheive more Bite out of it. Its a very heavy dark sounding guitar. I'm not trying to make it sound like a Tele ;D But would like a Little more Sparkle. Does anyone know where I could find some different diagrams or info on Wiring options? Thanks for the Help Jamie
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Jan 23, 2012 9:02:23 GMT -7
Just google Les Paul 50s wiring and you'll get a bunch. Try this one to start. www.dominocs.com/AshBassGuitar/Gibson50s.html Where do you usually run the volume. If you run it turned down you could put in a bypass cap and possible a resister across the terminals of the volume pots like they do in some tellys to keep the highs when it is turned down. |
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Jan 23, 2012 9:23:53 GMT -7
Thought of something else. If you have 500K pots in it now you could go to 1 meg pots. That will give you a little more brightness.
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Jan 23, 2012 9:30:08 GMT -7
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Post by Scott on Jan 23, 2012 9:41:20 GMT -7
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Post by mfirst on Jan 23, 2012 10:00:03 GMT -7
When you open up the epi and look in there you may find that the existing wiring doesn't match some of these gibson examples. The basic concept for 50s wiring is that the tone cap serves as the connection between the volume pot and the tone pot for each respective pickup. You will want to come out of the center lug of the volume pot to the tone pot. Then the signal will pass through to ground. Usually the middle lug of the tone pot will be soldered to the casing.
I've been playing with gibson wiring for the past few months. Get good pots and good caps. I think you will find that the 50s style is a little brighter. You will also notice more interaction between the volume and the tone controls.
The first link Marc posted will be a good guide to get you going. Seymour duncan has lots of great wiring diagrams, but the most basic humbucker diagram (2 vol, 2 tone, 3way switch) is basically the wiring that is in your epi now, the cap is wiried in a little different, but I believe if you follow the signal path it is accomplishing the same thing.
Let us know how it goes.
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Post by edoetsch on Jan 23, 2012 14:36:15 GMT -7
I spoke with my tech and his response was basically this: First and foremost get 1Meg pots in there. If it still isn't bright enough, [some of the other mods listed in this post] will get you a bit more treble.
Would others agree? I have this problem with a 1981 Gibson SG, but have not taken a look at my pot values yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2012 15:23:46 GMT -7
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Post by markT on Jan 23, 2012 16:26:58 GMT -7
My opinion is....Do the standard 50's wiring with the new pickups and pots. Then go from there- My R9 is perfect with 500k pots and Burstbuckers. Plenty of high's, but still FAT and doesn't loose highs with the volume is rolled back. It that's doesn't do it for you, then try the other mods.. Gibson 50's wiring is the tried and true...the real deal...  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2012 16:39:57 GMT -7
My opinion is....Do the standard 50's wiring with the new pickups and pots. Then go from there- My R9 is perfect with 500k pots and Burstbuckers. Plenty of high's, but still FAT and doesn't loose highs with the volume is rolled back. It that's doesn't do it for you, then try the other mods.. Gibson 50's wiring is the tried and true...the real deal... +1 Also makes the middle toggle position much more useful. As it allows you to mix in the amount of lead and/or rhythm pickup that you want. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 14:45:33 GMT -7
I don't know why they don't make all Les Pauls with '50s wiring. It's just better. I see no advantage in any of the alternatives.
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Post by smolder on Jan 24, 2012 15:37:05 GMT -7
I don't know why they don't make all Les Pauls with '50s wiring. It's just better. I see no advantage in any of the alternatives. Fwiw... I think all of he historics made in the last couple of years have the 50's wiring. |
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Post by Andy 67 on Jan 24, 2012 16:14:37 GMT -7
I don't know why they don't make all Les Pauls with '50s wiring. It's just better. I see no advantage in any of the alternatives. Fwiw... I think all of he historics made in the last couple of years have the 50's wiring. That's right. My 2010 R7 has it. Anyway, check My Les Paul Forum; there's a thread in the 'Tonefreaks' subforum, I think, called 'the wiring thread' with, literally, hundreds of possibilities and lots of useful info. Tons of tone!! |
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Post by muzacman02 "Jamie" on Jan 25, 2012 8:11:08 GMT -7
Yeah , Thanks to all the great response! Especially Marc and Matt! Look forward to Z Fest This year hope you all will make it, ;D This eppy I have is a great guitar I got it at The dealers cost because he was trying to eliminate his inventory Blah Blah but it has a beautiful Flamed Top, Grovers and has The COA from the Gibson Factory in Nashville, where it was set up, while its still an $800 guitar I think with these upgrades it will be better . I have changed the Pup's 2x and still not quite what I'm after. I thought of the 1k Pots but I have read that if I wire like you all are saying I should be fine with 500k, . I plan to use CTS pots and either Sozo or Orange type caps. When I installed My PAF Mojo's I did change the caps and it helped a little bit, But my DGT sound is what I crave. It has a Treble bleed in it and I have been Spoiled I guess and My SG Lollar Loaded guitar really Sings and dont get muddy when using the volume, I use the volume like crazy . All my guitars volume knobs have been swapped to incorperate the Bridge volume closest to the pup's. Thats the only down fall with Gibsons, I have gotten a lil better with it though, PRS guiatrs are like fenders the Vol Pot is right there within Pinky reach, Well now that I have the Tools I need I better get busy, I'm gonna hold off on Gutting the Mojo's til I do this wiring. Does anyone know how Close or similar the SG wiring is compared to the LP wiring, I have an 06' SG Jamie
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Jan 25, 2012 8:23:57 GMT -7
It should be the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 9:45:20 GMT -7
When I tried the treble bleed with "50's Wiring" on my CR-8 it didn't seem to work for me. I also found that using "50's Wiring" on stage was a little too hard to adjust on the fly. I went back to "Modern"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 12:02:42 GMT -7
When I tried the treble bleed with "50's Wiring" on my CR-8 it didn't seem to work for me. I also found that using "50's Wiring" on stage was a little too hard to adjust on the fly. I went back to "Modern" I've heard that before. It isn't for everyone. Options are good though. I didnt know if my buddy was gonna like it. Told him what I wanted to do before I did it. It fortunately, worked out. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 16:00:31 GMT -7
When I tried the treble bleed with "50's Wiring" on my CR-8 it didn't seem to work for me. I also found that using "50's Wiring" on stage was a little too hard to adjust on the fly. I went back to "Modern" What do you mean but too hard to adjust on the fly? |
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Post by greenblues58 on Jan 25, 2012 16:19:32 GMT -7
when I put new pickups in my Lester I still found it too dark sounding untill I discovered it was fitted at factory with 300k (actually measured 250) vols and 100k tones!
I then put in bareknuckle 550 k special taper pots .015 and .022 pio caps and 50,s wiring.
this was fantastic on the neck pickup but way way too bright on the bridge and I was rolling tone to 3 or 4 to get rid of the brightness.
Messed around with caps and now have .047 pio on the bridge and modern wiring but still 50,s wiring on the neck.
Suits me now as bridge has that low end growl I was looking for but neck does anything from full on humbucker to P90 style tones.
As pickups are OOP by design I still have all the Greeny tones on the middle position.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 17:37:13 GMT -7
What do you mean but too hard to adjust on the fly? This is an excerpt from the article I posted, from singlecoil.com, which might explain Roscoe's dissatisfaction: In the original Les Paul circuit both pickups influence each other in the middle position of the pickup selector (both pickups together). When you roll back the volume on one pickup just a little bit, the other pickup is much louder than the other and if you roll back the volume down to zero, both pickups are silent. This is not very comfortable, but part of the real deal. With the volume pots wired backwards, this phenomenon will disappear but you pay a high price for this: all your treble and high end is killed when using the pots, your tone will loose any color and will sound dull and dead. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 17:40:54 GMT -7
What do you mean but too hard to adjust on the fly? This is an excerpt from the article I posted, from singlecoil.com, which might explain Roscoe's dissatisfaction: In the original Les Paul circuit both pickups influence each other in the middle position of the pickup selector (both pickups together). When you roll back the volume on one pickup just a little bit, the other pickup is much louder than the other and if you roll back the volume down to zero, both pickups are silent. This is not very comfortable, but part of the real deal. With the volume pots wired backwards, this phenomenon will disappear but you pay a high price for this: all your treble and high end is killed when using the pots, your tone will loose any color and will sound dull and dead. Fair enough. I sure like it though. I can get so many usable tones in the middle position by adjusting the volumes for each pickup. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 17:58:49 GMT -7
When I tried the treble bleed with "50's Wiring" on my CR-8 it didn't seem to work for me. I also found that using "50's Wiring" on stage was a little too hard to adjust on the fly. I went back to "Modern" What do you mean but too hard to adjust on the fly? There's a lot going on at the gigs I play. Ducking bottles, trying not to get hit by somebodies bass headstock, keeping an eye on the door, trying to sing, thinking about the next song, stuff like that. 50's wiring has cool sounds but I found it too hard to adjust the stuff on the fly at a gig. Live I'm much more comfortable with "modern Wiring" which is what ever other 2 pickup Gibson I ever owned (since '73) had. So I went back to "Modern". |
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Post by bluzman on Jan 26, 2012 21:47:54 GMT -7
This works for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 0:05:22 GMT -7
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Post by muzacman02 "Jamie" on Jan 29, 2012 8:06:51 GMT -7
Well, I got it done ;D I recapped and repotted the eppy and while I cant say if I think the 50's wiring has let the treble shine through? I can say it has made the Eppy really sound alot better, I used CTS 500K audio pots and 2- authentic Gibson bumble bee style .022 caps . I gutted all the wiring and installed Sheilded 16ga from the jack to the switch and back. I think the factory wire was like 30 Ga? Just kidding but it was thin very thin! I also changed my SG wiring to this style I noticed a Big difference with that guitar. I may try the treble bleed with the Eppy. I'm used to hearing that clarity with my other guitars my Strats and my DGT. I guess its habit. The Eppy works and sounds very good!!! THANK YOU Guys for all your help. I hope someone else will benefit from this, Such a simple change= HUGE TONE!
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Post by markT on Jan 29, 2012 8:12:57 GMT -7
Glad the updates help. Enjoy~ |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 13:02:53 GMT -7
Good to hear the positive update.
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