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Post by dei305 on Jun 19, 2006 6:18:58 GMT -7
Hey All, Just wondering if anyone has a Gibson Firebird. I am curious about your experience. I am thinking about either a V or VII. Many thanks! Rick.
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Post by guitarman1 on Jun 19, 2006 7:12:20 GMT -7
Hey All, Just wondering if anyone has a Gibson Firebird. I am curious about your experience. I am thinking about either a V or VII. Many thanks! Rick. My best Friend has a very rare, original reverse Firebird. I can't remember the year, but it is pre-Norlin. This guitar is in NOS condition. He and I both feel it is one of the raunchiest, nastiest sounding guitars we have ever heard. We want to love this thing because of it's vintage value, but it sounds like $hit! Maybe the new ones are better or this was just a really bad one. Every time I visit him in Florida, I think that it must sound better than I remember, so I get him to drag it out. Every time, it sounds just as bad. It's also a bulky, uncomfortable thing. He also has a 57 Les Paul gold top with soap bars that sounds amazing. It just goes to show that not every vintage guitar is magic.
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 19, 2006 7:59:37 GMT -7
Listen to Sittin' On Top Of The World, the live version from Cream Goodbye. I'll bet a doughnut Clapton's playing his Firebird I on that tune. I don't remember the model I had was called but it was a reverse, 2 mini hums and a stop tail. Extremely comfortable to me and I loved the banjo tuners. The negatives were it was neck heavy and the little pickups squealed when I played loud. The pickup problem was why I sold it. At the time there wasn't any known way to stop the microphonic howl. I liked the sound of the pickups. I'd love to have one now except i would much prefer a 25-1/2" scale. Gibson should have done it that way originally if they thought they were going to compete with Fender, which is what the whole point of the Firebird was.
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Post by guitarman1 on Jun 19, 2006 13:09:47 GMT -7
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 19, 2006 14:09:00 GMT -7
That's funny about McCartney using a Firebird on Maybe I'm Amazed. I thought sure I recalled him saying in an interview that he used an old Esquire and a Pignose amp on that. Memory is a funny thing!
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Post by Stumpy on Jun 19, 2006 17:07:20 GMT -7
I have a newer Firebird V, it is a bit awkward for sure compared to other guitars but a strap with a rough backside will hold it in place just fine. you also need to keep a stand handy as leaning them up against an amp or anything else for that matter can be a risky challenge to say the least.
I dig the mini humbuckers, it sounds just huge through a Route 66. Also sounds really great through a Ghia.
It has a unique tone and feel that may not appeal to everyone but That uniqueness is part of what I like about it.
You can find them used for around $1,100 and sometimes cheaper. My thought was to find a clean one in that range and just flip it if I didn't like it. I haven't thought of selling the one I picked up yet.
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Post by skydog958 on Jun 19, 2006 20:31:36 GMT -7
I have a '63 reverse body Firebird III and I love it. There are issues though. Of course, the pickups are not wax potted, so sometimes it squeals a bit, the pots are a touch scratchy, and it has the classic mini-humbucker problem--the bridge pickup is much weaker than the neck. I've heard the new 'birds don't have that problem, but be aware about if you are looking vintage for a Firebird or even the Les Paul Deluxes. I do like the sound of the bridge anyway, and there are ways of making it sound bigger, so for me it's no biggie. I love the look and feel of the body.
I almost picked up a '65 transition reverse the other day, but the $$ was too high. It had P-90s in it though.
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Post by anacephalic on Jun 25, 2006 14:44:00 GMT -7
i used to have a 63 reverse firebird one with no bird on the guard that was the most killer playing guitar i've ever had but the single neck pickup was real limiting unless it was played through a cranked marshall. i sold that one for $400, the last one i saw was a year later model that as seting at $10k with the bidding still going. aargh. I also had a gold mist non-reverse V that was a great guitar in about every respect. My brother has a III from sometime in the 70's that is a real nice guitar. the new ones are hit and miss, especially the Vs from what i've seen. i had an early 90's V that i tried to like but ended up trading it for a factory second epi emporer regent...the firebird truely was no fun and the epi was real cool. i also have a custom shop VI that is one of the most versatile and best playing guitars ever.
The thing to look out for with the reverse bodies is balance. some are just too neck heavy due to the tuners to be any fun. The mini buckers tend to be a tad brighter, especially the neck, than normal buckers. The body may have something to do with that but it certianly contributes to great sustain. the center position on the VII has a great out of phase strat like thing going on but whith a lot more cahones. I just did an outdoor gig with my VII where i got to crank my RX to my hearts content. what a blast.
I found the old style vibrato on both my vintage V and my brothers III reissue to have issues staying in tune. I much prefer the stop tailpiece...as did Johnny Winter who changed his vintage V over to a stop. i think that helps sustain as well.
It all comes down to money when you go shopping. The vintage reverse birds are stupid money. the custom shop reverse birds can be had reasonable if you think $2500-$3500 is reasonable. A custom shop VII is the way to go IMPO. New Vs can be had sub grand if you look hard. I'm sure there are nice ones out there
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 25, 2006 15:59:03 GMT -7
The gibson vibrato was never much good. I read recently that they don't temper them properly and they go out of tune even worse on the new ones.
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Post by skydog958 on Jun 25, 2006 21:40:59 GMT -7
I dont use the one on mine, because I like using my fingers for vibrato, but the guitar stays in tune oddly enough. Maybe having the full Lyre helps stabalized the bridge plate instead of the usual factory vibratos.
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 26, 2006 8:11:48 GMT -7
The Lyre plate is just for looks. The vibrato is intended for chord vibrato IMO. John Cippolina and Neal Young are the only two guys I've ever seen use a vibrato arm for single notes. You can go about one note up or down with a Vibrola. After that tuning will be trashed. If they had a rocking bridge it might work better. But like I said, I've heard the tempering is not right on the new ones and they don't reliably return to pitch so they're more for decoration than anything else.
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Post by janinedoubly on Jun 27, 2006 6:32:23 GMT -7
Man, I can't imagine a Firebird with a 25 1/2" scale length. You'd need super long arms to play in the first position!! Firebirds are a weird deal, but they sound really cool. I love mini-humbuckers.
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Post by skydog958 on Jun 29, 2006 9:53:07 GMT -7
I agree with you, billyguitar, vibratos are for chords. But every time I try to use it for chords it ends up sounding "surfy." It just feels to weird for me not to use my fretting hand for vibrato. I remember when I first sat down and actually practiced adding vibrato on the top of a full step bend. It was sometime last year
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Post by johngourlay on Jul 15, 2006 10:34:11 GMT -7
I love Firebirds but some of the Gibson's I've seen are quite poorly made. I bought a Hugh Manson (UK) Firebird last week, beautiful thing, Bare Knuckle Mule at Bridge and Mississippi Queen P90 at the neck. Pics available if interested. Sounds good through my Ghia.
John Boy (UK)
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Post by skydog958 on Jul 15, 2006 12:28:11 GMT -7
Man, I've wanted to try Bare Knuckles for ages, particularly the Mississippi Queen. I'd love to see pics of that axe.
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 15, 2006 15:39:52 GMT -7
I saw something cool today. A new Epighone Firebird with a satin cherry finish, two chrome humbuckers (didn't plug it in so I don't know how they sound) and the coolest tuners I've seen in a long time. Some kind of clamp thing on top and just a knurled knob on the back of the headstock. $397 out the door. Played fine and acoustically sounded like any other Firebird. Huge bang-for-the-buck.
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Post by skydog958 on Jul 17, 2006 7:16:41 GMT -7
I actually demo'd an Epi Firebird VII when I went into Sam Ash one day (I was only in there to get some strings, I swear! ) and I was surprised. Sure, it has a different feel than a Gibson, but for the $$ I'd say it's a good deal. I saw on eBay once this Epi VII in sunburst that was routed for 3 full humbuckers with open black coils that looked bada$$. Maybe I could custom order a Gibson 'bird like that... Billy, I think the tuners on there are the Steinberger gearless tuners. The way you described them sounds right. Since they have no gears, the tuning ratio is 40:1! They have them at www.stew-mac.com. One pic has a set of gold ones on a sunburst Firebird that actually look pretty sweet.
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 17, 2006 7:46:53 GMT -7
That was what the tuners are. Either that or a knock-off. If Gibson would have had tuners like that on the original ones there would have been lots less of them with repaired headstocks now. Those would be great on a Fender headstock too except they might be too close together.
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Post by tjstrat on Jul 17, 2006 8:21:20 GMT -7
I read years ago that Leslie West, FWIW, often judged the ability of lead players by their ability to bend a note up and apply vibrato without sliding down or losing intonation...
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 17, 2006 8:35:05 GMT -7
The right tempo of the vibrato is important also. I know west is still around but I've always wondered why, since West, Bruce & Lang, that he hasn't done much. Must be just chillin' on the royalty checks.
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Post by johngourlay on Jul 17, 2006 13:26:07 GMT -7
Skydog: I sent a pic of the FB via E mail. I can't seem to get pics on the Forum.
John Boy
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Post by skydog958 on Jul 19, 2006 11:59:09 GMT -7
thats one sweet 'bird! Was that a custom order?
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 20, 2006 8:41:44 GMT -7
Heard an old Quicksilver Messenger Service cut on the radio this morning that reminded me how good a Firebird can sound. The tune was Fresh Air (have another hit) unforunately post-Cippolina and with Dino Valente but Gary Duncan on guitar. He ALWAYS played with tone, taste and style. I saw them when this tune came out and Duncan was using marshall 1/2 stacks and a Firebird. This tune has to be him on the Firebird. Little River Band's guitar player also used a Firebird on most of their material. McCartney did some good Firebird work with Wings but I still think his first solo album was an Esquire and a Pignose.
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Post by johngourlay on Jul 20, 2006 9:10:50 GMT -7
Re Hugh Manson Firebird. I went to look at one of his Tele's and he'd just finished it and put it up for sale. He makes guitars for Mat Bellamy of the Brit band 'Muse', Zep's John Paul Jones amongst others. I'm envious of the Lentz guitars Z users show on this site. What's your Heritage like?
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Post by skydog958 on Jul 20, 2006 20:14:35 GMT -7
Billy--On "Wings" Mac used a non-reverse 'bird with P-90s or so I'm told. There is a Firebird tribute website (the url I can't quite remember) that has lists of famous Firebird users, which include Johnny Winter, Eric Clapton, Steven Stills, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Allen Collins, and others. Just type "Firebird tribute site" on Google and you'll find it.
John--My Heritage is basically a 335, but it has a slightly shallower body. Beautiful curly maple front, back, and sides in an Almond Sunburst finish. Slim "U" shape and large frets. I think the fret radius is compound, but I don't know exactly what it is. Custom details include crown MOP inlays, extra binding around the headstock and F-holes. The body woods were ordered to be extra curly. Also has a Gibson stopbar tailpiece (but still has the Schaller roller-bridge). The pickguard is also flame maple that matches the body. I'll try to send you a picture before I go away for 3 weeks. Plays like a dream. 11's felt like 10s to me on it.
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Post by tjstrat on Jul 21, 2006 2:13:49 GMT -7
Warren Haynes has been using Firebirds a lot lately too. Haven't seen the Mule for a few years now, but the last two shows I saw he was plugging in ... I wanna say a purple reissue. Of course, he still sounds like he sounds, and it could be a Teisco he was strumming. But he was definitely out there with it live.
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 21, 2006 4:50:22 GMT -7
When McCartney was shown on an MTV program and a Guitar Player interview at the time of Admiral Halsey/Hands Across The Water I'm sure he was using a reverse 'bird with minihums. I can't believe everything on that firebird website. I think the dude has some stuff wrong. Just like on here (including the stuff I write) you can't necessarily believe something just because it's on the net. Plenty of mis-information on sites like that.
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Post by skydog958 on Jul 21, 2006 6:15:12 GMT -7
There is a photo of Paul with a reverse 'bird in the studio. It actually might have mini 'buckers so I think you're right on that one. here's the site www.stevemoore.addr.com/hotnews.htmlScroll down and you'll see Paul w/ a NR, but for some reason the guy cut out the background
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Post by mystic on Sept 10, 2006 9:29:00 GMT -7
here's mine. The Dr. Z 2X12 cab is Amazing!!!
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Post by johngourlay on Sept 10, 2006 11:54:04 GMT -7
They look great! I never got on with Les Paul's, don't think I'm a good enough player to coax anything resembling a decent tone from one. After a couple of days playing a Firebird my other guitars seem like ukele's - so small. Looking at that gear on the photo you must be able to bash out some sounds. What year were your Gibson's made?
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