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Post by oldgoat on Jun 16, 2006 22:47:54 GMT -7
I'm kind of out of my element. I've been looking to buy my first Telecaster in over 30 years and I'm having a hard time making the big decision between two different brands and types. With the abundance of Telecaster players here I was hoping for some insight.
Does anyone play or have experience with a "Nashville" style setup? I mean a Telecaster with the three pickups to get the strat sounds. There is a G&L ASAT Classic S with a maple fretboard that I've been checking out. It's a beautiful guitar, wonderful tone and plays great, even with my arthritis. And I like the idea of the tele-strat monster. On the other hand also fighting for my money is a '81 Fender Telecaster. Rosewood fretboard, two pickups and beautiful tone. Also a good $600 more than the G&L.
My big question is about the G&L. Is this Nashville type of setup a compromise, not really getting a true tele or strat sound? I really don't want to be running around in six months or so trying to sell this guitar because it's not sounding like a real Telecaster.
Thanks everyone for your help.
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Post by Teleman on Jun 17, 2006 6:26:56 GMT -7
I've owned several Teles with a Nashville setup and also own a G&L classic S. The Nashville setups offer the best of both worlds but it is still a bit of a compromise. I'll refer to this in terms of the G&L since that seems what you are most interested in. The G&l has a great tele bridge tone, with the S500 pickup in the middle the "Strat quack" tone is close, certainly close enough for my use, but is not spot on to a strat. The neck pickup is good also but again if a strat neck tone is what you seek, this is close but no cigar. Overall. the G&L is quite versatile and certainly can provide a "best of both" worlds for most players. I recommend it.
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Post by frank4001 on Jun 17, 2006 8:23:18 GMT -7
The front pickup on my ASAT Classic is great. Its one of the best front pickup tones I've played. Overdrives the amp really well and for more vintage tone I back off the volume a touch. Its been a discovery process with that thing. Alot of versatility for me, I'm finding, as a gigging instrument. The back pickup is excellent too. I dont get the strat "in bewtween sound" out of it because I only have the two pickups on it but I usually bring this and a strat. But that front pick up gives up nothing to a strat front pickup in my opinion..sounds a touch different but the all the good stuff is there as far as playing it. I'd love to try that Nashville setup. My strat is real '62 (that I'll probably have to stop bringing out) so I can tell you the G&L tones have a cleaner more hi-fi tone but here is the deal. It cleans up great for rythm and fill playing and sounds like a good tele should. This guitar replaced a real '67. When you turn it up for leads it really drove the amps whick takes a bit of the edge off and give you a great touch and tone to work with. Excellent sustain . Something old front pickup on '67 had more trouble doing. The back pickup is almost dead on my old '67 which was almost idetntical to my '62 strat. I'm sure there are dudes out there who'd say "now way" but thats the deal for me. . And again it actually took 2 or 3 gigs to figure it all out on the G&L but, once I did I realized I could cut just about anything with it. I play through a RXES and different old Fenders. And I'm taking tones with no effects here. I'd say for live playing its excellent. Hope this helps.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jun 17, 2006 8:58:52 GMT -7
The thing is, the "signature" Tele tone comes from the bridge pickup, and that is not affected by what you do with the other pickups unless you have them on too. And that's not the signature Tele sound. In addition, with the right pickups, you can get the neck pup and middle pup to give you something that is very pleasing. I definitely think it's the way to go because you really do get the best of both worlds if you're careful to tune things to your desired sound. Oh yeah, here's my 3-pickup Tele clone:
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Post by tele1962 on Jun 17, 2006 15:23:30 GMT -7
Goat,
Frank is totally credible, I believe , because he has two things going for him that create excellent points of reference to obtaining tonal qualities that take their heritage the right way. Firstly he uses original old guitars with stock PU's as a point of reference for everything else. Secondly, he doesn't color a lot of the tone. He goes straight into a very good amp with very good guitars. You don't get better than that, folks!
The guys creating Frankensteins would be better off doing what Frank does. This forum is kind of a crazy place. We all own Z's, and paid decent money for them. Some of us even own original amps from the 50's and 60's as well. All great points of reference! Having taken care of all that, here's what we do many times....we cheap out on our instruments. We look for a "deal"...whatever the hell that is...and we short change the very thing that starts the chain of great tone. I know this is true, because I've been guilty of it.
Old Goat...let your old goat senses and ears take you back to simple things. A 1962 Stratocaster is a good thing. A 67 Tele is a good thing. An old blackface Fender amp won't let you down, and a Z is a winner as well. Let these example of tone guide you home. A lot of us are getting on in years, and I've yet to see a Brinks truck following a hearse. Spend what you need to sound the way you remember good tones sounding. It's a very humble opinion, gentlemen, and it might even be unpopular here, but it's what I believe.
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 17, 2006 15:59:29 GMT -7
Unpopular opinion, hardly! In the chain of tone, every link is important!
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Post by oldgoat on Jun 19, 2006 22:17:22 GMT -7
You know I just love this forum. You ask a question and get well thought out answers from players with experience. Thank you all. And karma to tele1962. Thanks for bringing me back to what is really important, the sound.
Spent a long day in the guitar store on Saturday, (I know, life can be tough sometimes). First playing the ASAT, then the Telecaster. Back and forth. Just sitting in a big couch plugged into a old Princeton watching the store traffic go by. After an hour I knew which one, but stayed longer just because I was having so much fun. Turns out that the Telecaster fit me better than the ASAT. The tone was a tad more present and clearer. And the neck felt better in my old arthritic left hand. And just as important, it just "felt right". Voodoo, magic, something. This one was talking to me. Everything that I played on it sounded so clean and crystalline. Some Otis Rush, Booker T and the MG's, Cream, Scotty Moore, Barney Kessel and even a laid back version of "Run to the Hills" LOL. Looks like I'm going to be spending some quality time here.
Again, a big thanks to all of you!
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Post by frank4001 on Jun 20, 2006 10:33:34 GMT -7
Congrats on your new axe. Nothing like finding one thats right.
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Post by rodeoclown on Jun 20, 2006 19:17:21 GMT -7
Kudos to Tele1962 and Oldgoat! Being an old goat myself, I still have to sometimes remind myself that looks, headstock decal, amp logo, hype, vintage vs. boutique, and all this other really uneccessary baggage that we sometimes get wrapped up in on this and other generally extremely useful and knowledgeable sites has nothing to do with what really matters - tone and feel. And it really only matters to you or me, the one with the guitar in his hands. I've heard it said that Tiger Woods could play competitive golf with circa 1940 clubs, and I have no doubt Brent Mason or Brad Paisley would sound wonderful with a junk guitar and a solid state amp. When in doubt, rely on your ears and fingers. And congrats on the new axe!
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Post by tele1962 on Jun 26, 2006 13:25:55 GMT -7
Thank you so much Goat and Rodeoclown. Can I share a little more with you as friends? I'm still doing some guitar tech work on a small scale, as I'm semi retired. I've seen a lot of guitars, but I don't have all the pat answers for all of them. You will take note that I have very little "Karma". This is maybe a good thing. It may mean that although I've given the best info I could, based on many , many years, it might not always be what people want to hear or be popular in any fashion! So many times praise is popular opinion. I give VERY straight answers. I do not enter into a popularity context here or anywhere else. That's why I mentioned my answer might not be popular. There's also rages, waves, and fads. Right now for example, every forum has people raving about Kinman PU's. That's just an example of something. I've never chatted with Chris Kinman, and I'm sure he's a nice man, and has a nice product. I've chatted with Lindy Fralin, and he makes nice PU's as well. Installing these and other Custom PU's is easy and fun! I can even put them on a scope, and find out where they are efficient or deficient up and down the curve. Truth? Most modern replacement PU's are higher voltage and more efficient than the old ones. BUT.... My favorite PU mfg. for Fender guitars is Abigail Ybarra, Corona , California. Well, OK, fair enough she's not the mfg, she just works at the factory. She winds PU's for Fender's Custom Shop, and those are unbelievably well made, well balanced Pu's . But here's the real essence of everything. They really, really sound like Fenders!! Old Fenders, like the ones Leo first made. Not the new and improved ones that he made later with George Fullerton in the late 70's. The ones he sold the patents for to CBS. Those are the ones! You see, Oldgoat, even though Leo. or someone at G&L ( really good stuff, btw) designed those PU's....your ears heard the old ring and went back to the simplicity of sonic tones that were Fender! As time goes by, Fender's Custom Shop is going to get very busy, if they're not already. They have some wonderful people who care deeply about instruments working there. True luthiers and great craftsmen and women who are building to an even higher standard today than what Leo had yesterday. Sacriledge? Maybe...but pick up a Master built CS guitar and then see if these folks don't have a heart for making fine instruments. They've turned this old skeptic and vintage player into somewhat of a believer! Yes, it's a humble opinion, but how many guitars made in the 50's and 60's have I worked on to develop my opinions? I can't count, perhaps, but I can tell you what I know. A Don Grosh body with Jason Lollor's PU's in it, is a good guitar. It even looks like a Fender perhaps! But there will always be a handful of people who want a Fender. And a good one. And they're being made. And they're not cheap! Kinda like Z Amps ,wouldn't you think??
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Post by LittleBlindShakey on Jul 4, 2006 17:59:45 GMT -7
About two months ago I purchased a Fender Nashville Power Telecaster (basically the same as the three pickup Nashville except the “fourth” pickup is a Fishman Powerbridge built into the saddles). I run it through my pedal board and then the last box is an A/B splitter allowing me to go either to the Maz38 or the SWR acoustic amp. The neck and middle are Fender Strat style single coil and the bridge is a Fender Tele pickup, but I do not know specifically which model pickups. I find the bridge pickup by itself, or the neck and middle in any single mode or combination sound like they should. The mixture of the middle and bridge in the 4 position is not Strat like. Even though the pickups sound just ok I find them thin and lacking harmonics or texture and thin. I contacted Jason Lollar and spoke by phone to talk about replacement pickups. I settled on the Blackface Single coil for the neck and middle and the T Special for the bridge. I am sitting here looking at the three of them on my desk as I type.
Here is my “problem”, I am indecisive. Choice #1 is to put the pickups in the Nashville Tele and let her rip. Choice #2 is to have a Thinline Tele built with the Fishman Acoustic saddles and the Lollar pickups placed in, 5 way strat style switch for the magnetic pickups, 3 way micro switch to flip between/among the magnetic and acoustic pickups, one master volume and one master tone. Choice #2 is bit more expensive and time consuming but I am thinking the hollow body adds something more to the acoustic tone.
Any thoughts?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jul 5, 2006 6:27:29 GMT -7
You know I just love this forum. You ask a question and get well thought out answers from players with experience. Thank you all. And karma to tele1962. Thanks for bringing me back to what is really important, the sound. Spent a long day in the guitar store on Saturday, (I know, life can be tough sometimes). First playing the ASAT, then the Telecaster. Back and forth. Just sitting in a big couch plugged into a old Princeton watching the store traffic go by. After an hour I knew which one, but stayed longer just because I was having so much fun. Turns out that the Telecaster fit me better than the ASAT. The tone was a tad more present and clearer. And the neck felt better in my old arthritic left hand. And just as important, it just "felt right". Voodoo, magic, something. This one was talking to me. Everything that I played on it sounded so clean and crystalline. Some Otis Rush, Booker T and the MG's, Cream, Scotty Moore, Barney Kessel and even a laid back version of "Run to the Hills" LOL. Looks like I'm going to be spending some quality time here. Again, a big thanks to all of you! Now THAT's the way to pick a guitar. Karma to you for taking the time and doing the playing!
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Post by dei305 on Jul 5, 2006 9:19:53 GMT -7
Hey Old Goat, Congrats on your tele. There is a way to get five sounds out of your two pick up tele using a five way switch, and a cap. I have a wiring diagram from the real Bill Lawrence. He calls it Tele 4+1: #1 position (switch closest to the neck) is Neck pup; #2 is standard tele neck and bridge; #3 is bridge; #4 Strat type quack tone (this can be dialed in by using a cap value between .004-.05); #5 is the bridge pickup with 10% less bass. I highly recommend you consider a Sozo brand cap. I have wired my 52 RI this way. I am using a Sozo .047 cap for the tone pot. I am using Lawrence tele pups as well. www.members.aol.com/dei305/T4plus1good luck and enjoy your tele. Rick
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Post by skydog958 on Jul 5, 2006 11:03:14 GMT -7
Is it possible to wire a 2 pickup tele in this manner?:
1st pos: neck 2nd pos: tele neck and bridge 3rd pos: strat quack 4th pos: tele bridge 5th pos: esquire bridge (i.e. tele bridge w/ tone pot bypassed for more treble)
I think that would be a versitile tele. I'd like mine to do that if and when I do get one.
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Post by kruzty on Jul 5, 2006 11:29:35 GMT -7
Is it possible to wire a 2 pickup tele in this manner?: 1st pos: neck 2nd pos: tele neck and bridge 3rd pos: strat quack 4th pos: tele bridge 5th pos: esquire bridge (i.e. tele bridge w/ tone pot bypassed for more treble) I think that would be a versitile tele. I'd like mine to do that if and when I do get one. The Peavey Omniac is kind of like that. I ordered one and it should be in this week - I'll let you know how it works out.
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 5, 2006 13:16:56 GMT -7
I'm interested to hear how you like the Omniac. The price is sure right and I imagine it's well made, for the money. You always have to wonder about the pickups though.
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Post by sonicgator on Jul 15, 2006 16:00:00 GMT -7
I recently played a Tele at a store that I absolutely loved...it had that "it" factor and that special magic that said, "Take me home!" The Tele was a customized Fender, with Fishman bridge, Antique White color with Tortoise Shell binding, Maple on Maple, etc... so after playing this treasure of a guitar, the guy at the store says...that's the owner's guitar...it's not for sale!
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