dave
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by dave on Mar 21, 2006 14:04:24 GMT -7
GAS hits again. A local guy I recently met at a jam night has a 1989 Les Paul Gold Top with P90's - its a 50-something reissue. Looked and sounded gorgeous and he is selling it. Going for a closer look and try out later in the week. He needs some dosh so there may be a reasonable price to be had.
Thing is I have always hankered after a P90 guitar and wondered what people thought of them? Is the Les Paul sustain compromised by a lower output pickup?
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 21, 2006 15:33:33 GMT -7
I have an odd one. The construction specs are right but it came with P-100s from the factory. It's called a '55 reissue. I think Gibson made it in the late 1980s. I got some Lindy Fralin P-90s and put in it. They are not high output. It seems to sustain as well as any Les Paul to me. I haven't used it in a long time. I don't really like the 24-3/4" scale length anymore. I wish someone would make something like a Les Paul with 25-1/2" scale. That scale just sounds better to me. You might want to check if it's got P-100s or P-90s. Compare it side by side with a single coil guitar. If it doesn't hum it's got P-100s and you won't like it.
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Post by foxx on Mar 21, 2006 17:32:15 GMT -7
I have a custom made stained mahogany LP special type guitar with gibson P-90's. It has great sustain, and they do hum, pop, and pick up the ringing phone, the sound from my stereo speakers, some other hum interference, and I love them. To my tastes, I love Neil Young, they are the only single coil pups for me. If you like blues and rock and can deal with some noise, you should love them. Just play louder than the hum. Ironiclly, I play through a Mazerati, and it sounds good clean too, but some gain or fuzz gets these pups into their own territory.
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dave
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by dave on Mar 21, 2006 17:53:23 GMT -7
Thanks guys, some interesting comments. Re scale length, curiously I have a strat with a 24 3/4 scale, using a warmoth 'conversion' neck - I like the feel of it quite a lot, similar to the PRS 25" scale. I expect it changes the tone slightly with the lower tension but sounds pretty good to me! The P90/P100 difference was new to me as well. I'll report back....
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 21, 2006 18:46:28 GMT -7
I could be fooling myself but what I hear on a 25-1/2" scale guitar is a tilting up of harmonics. Hard to put into words really. I can put 12s on a Les Paul to match the tension I'm used to but I can't those harmonic overtones the same. To me the strings on 24-3/4" scale guitars and it sounds like the wire is too big and the overtones wobble. I had bought a few 25-1/2" scale Gibson and Epiphone archtops, that led me to Tele type solid bodies and now I can't go back. The 25" scale guitars don't seem right to me either. My loss really, it makes good guitars sit in their cases, unused.
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Post by guitarman1 on Mar 22, 2006 6:49:44 GMT -7
My good friend in South Florida has had an original 1956 Gold Top with the original P-90 soapbars. That friggin' guitar just plain screams. Best Lester I ever heard.
IMHO the sustain factor is more dependent on the guitar construction as opposed to pups. Set neck, solid mahaogany body guitars just sustain more than bolt ons. The PRS McCarty Soapbar is also a great ax!
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Post by Curt on Mar 22, 2006 7:55:06 GMT -7
I recently bought a Gibson R6, '56 Gold Top with P-90's, a great playing guitar, loved the neck pup, absolutely could not stand the bridge pup, just not enuf bawlZ, spank attitude, etc. These pups were not "balanced' with each other. huge loss of volume, tone and mojo when switched to the bridge, and yes, I tweaked heights etc. FWIW, in factory spec they were already raised/bridge, lowered/ neck about as far as possible. JMO. YMMV.
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 22, 2006 8:32:21 GMT -7
My bolt on Tom Anderson drop top T is, without a doubt, the best sustaining guitar I own, as good as my Travis Bean. No dead notes anywhere. In my experience set necks have no advantage other than cosmetic. Good topic for debate but my mind is made up.
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Post by guitarman1 on Mar 22, 2006 9:38:37 GMT -7
My bolt on Tom Anderson drop top T is, without a doubt, the best sustaining guitar I own, as good as my Travis Bean. No dead notes anywhere. In my experience set necks have no advantage other than cosmetic. Good topic for debate but my mind is made up. OK billy, you have an exception and there are always exceptions to rules. In general, a Lester or PRS will have longer, singing sustain than a bolt on Strat or Tele. Not always, but usually.
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 22, 2006 9:59:22 GMT -7
It's all in how they are built, woods and hardware. I agree that in general terms set necks are better. I've seen lots of Fenders that plunk like a banjo! I haven't got to try a Gibson equipped with Tone Pro hardware yet. That would probably improve things more. If Gibson would make a solid body (excluding from discussion the L-5S and the little shrunken Les Paul looking thing) with a 25-1/2" scale they'd probably even sustain better yet. My L5-CES sustains as well as my Les Paul gold top which is a bit of a surprise. I hope you didn't take offence, just a friendly discussion.
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Post by foxx on Mar 22, 2006 17:50:04 GMT -7
So, dumb question, where is the scale measured from? Nut to saddle I would guess. My LP style mahogany (body/neck) measures about 25 1/2" from nut to saddles, 26" to the bridge.
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Post by garyh on Mar 22, 2006 18:54:43 GMT -7
Back in the 70s I had a goldtop Lester with cream P90s that I absolutely loved. Played it for years through my blackface super. Had to sell them both when I went back to college. I still have a P90 that I took off my 1960 ES 330 when I put hums on it years ago. I just got a strat tortoiseshell pickguard off ebay cut for a P90 at the bridge - may try that out.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 23, 2006 5:32:15 GMT -7
Billy, I've got a Gibson Johnny A Signature model, which is a hollowbody with a 25 1/2" scale. I think it really adds something to the sound- more snap, tighter bass, and better harmonics. You can really hear the difference as opposed to say, a 335.
PDW
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 23, 2006 6:39:52 GMT -7
Absolutely different sound. I've been wanting a Johnny A. I'd like to find a used one. It has to be a hands on test for me so I'm patiently waiting. The Johnny A has a lot more maple in it which also adds to the snap. The Hofner Verithin is also a good candidate for me. I played a blonde one but it seemed to have a pretty thick finish. The sunburst ones are supposed to be a thin french polish finish so that's the one I'm hoping to find. To: foxx Measure from the inside of the nut to where the string sits on the bridge saddle. It will be very close to 24-3/4".
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Post by terryg on Mar 23, 2006 9:13:43 GMT -7
I saw Johnny A at a seminar hosted by Maken' Music in Chicago. It was a really cool thing, and that guitar is quite nice. I'd wonder about the used availability, as there don't seem to be many new Johnny A's available! Are the Hofners available with P90s? The violin finish (is that the right term?) from the Vintage Guitar review is stuck in my head.
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Post by foxx on Mar 23, 2006 9:42:34 GMT -7
Hey thanks billyguitar, I just measured the guitar. I have a 24 3/4" scale I guess. That's about the average distance. The low E is closer to 25" and the high E is like 24 5/8", the guitar is set up well as far as intonation.
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 23, 2006 10:07:12 GMT -7
The Hofner just comes with their own pickups but they split to single coil. Gibson only uses the longer scale for their more high end models, L-5 etc.. Except that one little BB jr, or whatever it's called.
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Post by foxx on Mar 23, 2006 10:18:33 GMT -7
I got real lucky finding this guitar. I loved it from the first note. It was made by a cabinet maker in Santa Fe. It looks like a LP special, but has no name or serial # on it anywhere. I had never paid any attention to scale, I just loved the guitar. I really like mahogany guitars, it matches my acoustic, a Martin D-15 Mahogany. The two together cost $800. Two good guitars for cheap.
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Post by bigdaddyweed on Oct 5, 2006 22:17:39 GMT -7
I too was bitten by the P-90 bug. I found a '94 LP Special on ebay with P 100's in it, and put Gibson Vintage P-90's in it. I had to end up and shield all the cavities real good, still has a little hum. It sounded good, but then I replaced the capacitors with bumblebees, and OMG. It screams, it's creamy, and I love the sound, and the good sustain. Playin' it through a Maz 18 don't hurt either. I have used humbuckers and dual channel amps all my life, but I'm takin' this rig to the grave. Hope this helps with your tone quest.
Thanks............weedman
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Post by (8^D) on Oct 6, 2006 10:55:09 GMT -7
My bolt on Tom Anderson drop top T is, without a doubt, the best sustaining guitar I own, as good as my Travis Bean. No dead notes anywhere. In my experience set necks have no advantage other than cosmetic. Good topic for debate but my mind is made up. OK billy, you have an exception and there are always exceptions to rules. In general, a Lester or PRS will have longer, singing sustain than a bolt on Strat or Tele. Not always, but usually. "It sustains for days..." "Don't touch it...don't even look at it."
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Post by skydog958 on Oct 6, 2006 21:16:24 GMT -7
Ack! I'm dyin for a P-90 guitar
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dave
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by dave on Nov 3, 2006 3:12:10 GMT -7
Well I started this thread way back but sadly have to report I missed out on buying the LP. But I did get a P90 guitar at last - a Lentz HSL which came available out of the blue.
The P-90 sound is fabulous, combining chime and twang with fatness that though a Ghia moves a significant amount of air. Sustain? Bolt-on neck? The HSL sustain is truly exceptional and seems almost to swell with accoustic feedback acting on the very light body - I have just never heard a guitar sustain like this. Just amazing for long slow bends and deep vibrato like a slide guitar.
I am pretty sure that sustain is not just about whether a neck is bolt on or glued in - sure a glued in neck will be stiffer than your average boit-on, but body weight, neck contruction and fit overides all - and I reckon the HSL outsustains the PRS!
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Post by groovergeorge on Nov 3, 2006 4:19:12 GMT -7
I must admit I have had 2 Les Pauls with P90's, a blue Gibson Gem series and a Gibson Les Paul special TV and they both had that awesome blues/rock tone just perfect for doing all that early roots rock and blues stuff. P90's just seem to have that right balance of bite and twang and when you lean hard on them they just take you into crunch heaven. I've never been able to get the same kind of sustain out of them as a L'P with buckers but they aren't that kind of pickup. I just love them and wish I could afford one of the new single cut historics in T.V yellow.
keep on pickin'
groovergeorge
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Post by skydog958 on Nov 3, 2006 13:29:38 GMT -7
The HSL is the next guitar on my list...I'm years away, of course, but I'm keeping my eye out...
There's a DL 90 on eBay right now, and one pic has it sitting on top of a Dumble Overdrive Special!
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Post by nitehawk55 on Nov 3, 2006 14:12:41 GMT -7
Ack! I'm dyin for a P-90 guitar If you are looking for something affordable try one of those Godin LG90's , excellent value for the money at $3-400 used and tones of tone and sustain !! Not a pretty guitar but a practical player . Personally I do not care for Les Pauls , I've had a few and sold them or traded them off soon after getting them . I just find them an uncomfortable guitar and have never taken a liking to them plus I don't care for 2 volume and 2 tone pots , makes them complicated although it is good for blending tones it just isn't handy for quick adjustments . The other P90 guitar I have found that sounds as good as the Godin is a PRS McCarty Standard with the all mahogany body and neck , no maple cap . Warm and plenty of resonance and sustain .
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Post by billyguitar on Nov 3, 2006 14:48:26 GMT -7
My Lentz DL90 should be completed soon. I'm really looking forward to hearing Scott's take on the P90.
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Post by billyguitar on Nov 3, 2006 14:56:09 GMT -7
I just checked the ebay listing for the DL90. That's exactly what I've got on order. There are only 23 hours left on the auction. It's only up to $1,800! That guitar, with case, costs $3,150 new! Usually a Lentz sells for more used than new. If that guitar goes for less than new somebody will get a SCREAMING good deal! The last Lentz Tele I saw sell went for, I think, $3,800.00 .
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Post by skydog958 on Nov 3, 2006 21:04:55 GMT -7
Yeah when I saw that I thought it could be you, but I wasn't sure yours was done yet (nor that you'd be selling it already!). You don't happen to have a Dumble, do you?
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Post by mudskipper on Nov 3, 2006 21:57:13 GMT -7
there must be something in the air... P90s... i was just posting about them elsewhere. yup, i've got 2 in the Gibson variety.
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Post by billyguitar on Nov 4, 2006 17:13:56 GMT -7
Is anyone able to look at completed auctions on Ebay? I'd like to know what that Lentz guitar went for.
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