azfenderman
New Member
Performing Classic Rock & Country Hits...
Posts: 28
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Post by azfenderman on Feb 20, 2006 11:13:30 GMT -7
Hi All! I'm on a tone quest that seems to be alluding me My objective is to be able to dial in a sound like CountryShawn (a forum member), Doug Seven, Jerry Donahue, etc. I can't seem to get the twangy brightness out of my current setup. Currently, I play a 1995 American Standard Tele (with a Lindy Fralin Blues Special bridge pup and a Seymour Duncan Hot Rythm neck pup). I use Ernie Ball stings (9 - 46mm). I play through a Dr. Z Maz 18 Jr NR 2X10s. Even when I dime the Treble and Cut settings, I can't achieve the 'twang' I hear from the aforementioned players. Interestingly, I took my Z amp down to my local Guitar Center and plugged a 52 Re-issue into it and didn't notice much improvement. However, when I plugged a Highway One Tele into it, I noticed a difference, especially playing on the G, B and E srings. There was definitely more 'twang' or 'spank' than I've been able to get!! My question is do I need a different guitar (like the Highway One) or do I need to change out the upgraded pups I had installed a while back (which are apparently what Brad Paisley uses in his '68 Tele) and use a 'vintage fender' set? I've also used various amp settings recommended by CountryShawn and others, but the tone's not there. Any help or insight you all can share will be very much appreciated I know I haven't mentioned effects like a compressor, etc. but I've noticed that introducing these hasn't solved or significantly addressed my basic tone problem. Again, thanks! AZ
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Post by Bill on Feb 20, 2006 11:44:10 GMT -7
Get a Boss CS 3 compressor, set the dials at noon...maybe attack and sustain at 1:00. Plug in Tele, back guitar volume down to about 7, snap/pull/spank strings and enjoy your country sound! A little delay adds a lot too.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2006 11:55:39 GMT -7
Pickups might be another option. Guitars can vary greatly even among the same build. Your tele might not be as bright as Brad's, so the hotter pickups might be giving you a darker sound. Try going to the Vintage Fralins or even the Broadcaster set I think he does. I am using lollar's vintage set and they are working great for me. I would try and find what pickups work the best in your guitar. Have fun!
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Post by billyguitar on Feb 20, 2006 13:50:44 GMT -7
People that get really tweaky say you have to have the vintage style three piece bridge for maximum Tele popping.
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Post by Curt on Feb 20, 2006 14:18:09 GMT -7
It's in the fingers more than anything IMO.
Ole Madison say's that above, comp, delay are popular but not necessary, and I doubt it's your pups.
A chickin' picker like fellow forumites RC or country shawn can do it with a Les Paul through a Route 66, maybe a twitch off exact, but they can do it.
I can cop nearly the same country tones with my Lester/Ghia that I can with any of my Teles/Z-28.
It's in the hands, gotta have lots of skin and meat on the strings, fretboard, bridge and body of your guitar.
IMO, YMMV, etc. Ya gotta pluck and pull !!!
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Post by propellr on Feb 20, 2006 14:40:31 GMT -7
I think tele62 is onto something. I thought it was cool that you played a couple of different guitars through your amp. You could also try having one of the salesmen hand you the different guitars with your eyes closed, so you could avoid that bias (although, in this case, you preferred the more inexpensive guitar). Just a thought. Keep pickin'!
tele62, I see you're still waiting. It'll be worth the wait, man, but I have to say, it'll get worse. Once your ship finally comes in, you'll have to wait to get home to play every day after that.
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Post by Curt on Feb 20, 2006 14:47:53 GMT -7
I think tele62 is onto something. I thought it was cool that you played a couple of different guitars through your amp. You could also try having one of the salesmen hand you the different guitars with your eyes closed, so you could avoid that bias (although, in this case, you preferred the more inexpensive guitar). Just a thought. Keep pickin'! tele62, I see you're still waiting. It'll be worth the wait, man, but I have to say, it'll get worse. Once your ship finally comes in, you'll have to wait to get home to play every day after that. LOL, It's bad anyway !! I have a new love affair with my Z 28 !!!.......any you know what?!?! I swapped amps with RC and now have his SF Princeton Reverb, man for practice and noodlein' @ home I can not get enough of that thing !!! I'l let ya know when Senor' shows up, hell I'll let the world know !!! LOL Keep Pickin', Curt
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Post by myles on Feb 20, 2006 15:10:02 GMT -7
I think tele62 is onto something. I thought it was cool that you played a couple of different guitars through your amp. You could also try having one of the salesmen hand you the different guitars with your eyes closed, so you could avoid that bias (although, in this case, you preferred the more inexpensive guitar). Just a thought. Keep pickin'! tele62, I see you're still waiting. It'll be worth the wait, man, but I have to say, it'll get worse. Once your ship finally comes in, you'll have to wait to get home to play every day after that. LOL, It's bad anyway !! I have a new love affair with my Z 28 !!!.......any you know what?!?! I swapped amps with RC and now have his SF Princeton Reverb, man for practice and noodlein' @ home I can not get enough of that thing !!! I'l let ya know when Senor' shows up, hell I'll let the world know !!! LOL Keep Pickin', Curt Curt, Sort of a side story ..... Priceton Reverbs .... very cool amps. If you ever see a copy of the DVD Rumor Mill by Carl Verheyen, there is some bonus material where he demos about 15 different vintage guitars he has and uses on the DVD. In any case, what makes the demos on the guitars so cool is that all of this was recorded in his "small studio" on nothing but a TS-9 maybe at times and Princeton Reverbs. He has at least two or three of them in this room at any given time (two are built into the room) so its pretty cool to hear how different guitars can sound (even different years of the same guitar) using the same amps. As a side note ... I have been through all his Princetons (black and silver face) and there is really no difference ... they are all pretty darn amazing amps.
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Post by propellr on Feb 20, 2006 18:04:38 GMT -7
I played a SF Princeton Reverb (Stock) that I picked out all by myself right after I had bought my first Les Paul. I still can't believe it, knowing just how little I knew about electric guitars at the time, that I would happen upon such a sweet amp. I played that amp for 8 years and finally sold it in order to help finance my Maz 38. I was very pleased with it and always found it to be perfect for playing around the apartment or on small gigs. The "sound in my head" I have to attribute to that Princeton, to a great extent. You have to admit, though, that, at least in part, you "can't get enough" of that amp because, for the time being, you're holding out for your Z. Am I right or am I right?
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Post by billyguitar on Feb 20, 2006 19:37:35 GMT -7
I've got a '65 Princeton Reverb that has never sounded good. You guys are making me want to get it tuned up. My feeling is it needs caps, sockets cleaned, tubes and a bias job. One of these days...............
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Post by Curt on Feb 20, 2006 20:08:47 GMT -7
Billy, after playing Z's the first hurdle was..NO low end !!! But the spongy natural compression, and dern cool Tremelo are just awesome, I thought I'd gig it but it just ain't quite enough. I am WAY interested in Allen amps version, 18 watt w 6V6 or 25 watt w/6L6's. This one is VERY quiet so I'm thinkin' the caps are fine, I'll retube it soon.
Myles, ant suggestions on tubes and bias settings? Thanks for the Carl story !!!!
Curt
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Post by Curt on Feb 20, 2006 20:09:40 GMT -7
Oh, and mine has a Weber in it, RC does not recall wat model but I am sure that helps over stock.
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Post by Curt on Feb 20, 2006 20:12:12 GMT -7
I played a SF Princeton Reverb (Stock) that I picked out all by myself right after I had bought my first Les Paul. I still can't believe it, knowing just how little I knew about electric guitars at the time, that I would happen upon such a sweet amp. I played that amp for 8 years and finally sold it in order to help finance my Maz 38. I was very pleased with it and always found it to be perfect for playing around the apartment or on small gigs. The "sound in my head" I have to attribute to that Princeton, to a great extent. You have to admit, though, that, at least in part, you "can't get enough" of that amp because, for the time being, you're holding out for your Z. Am I right or am I right? While I am WAY ready for my Sr, I have ghia and Z/28 for Z-ness...this is a completly different animal...and a whole nuther kind of fun !!
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Post by propellr on Feb 21, 2006 6:50:43 GMT -7
That tremelo was my favorite part of that princeton amp (and a great way to keep the beat when rehearsing without a drummer). I enjoyed it at those little restaurant gigs and would use it on songs that I wanted to emphasize just a little. Turn on the trem and wait for the forks to start dropping.
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azfenderman
New Member
Performing Classic Rock & Country Hits...
Posts: 28
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Post by azfenderman on Feb 21, 2006 9:38:15 GMT -7
Hey, thanks everyone for the helpful advice!! After considering all the input, I think I've narrowed it down to the guitar itself (either the pups, the bridge and/or some X factor). My playing style (which I didn't mention initially) is definitely oriented around country music (pulling, plucking, slapping, etc.) I use both the hybrid picking style and thumb pick and fingers (though the latter is something I haven't used much in a 'live' performance setting yet as I'm still working on it and my confidence level I know the addition of the right effects, like some compresssion and a little delay, will definitely help. My thought, at this point, is to pick up a Highway One Tele at GC and just try it out for a while (since there is a 30-day $ back guarantee). Like I said, I really noticed a difference in 'twang factor' when I plugged in the HW 1 vs my own Tele and even the 52 RI. Again, I appreciate your taking time to give me your thoughts on the subject. Have an awesome tone week AZ~
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Post by hdahs143 on Mar 10, 2006 14:35:36 GMT -7
I didn't see it mentioned as to whether your fingerboard is maple or rosewood. A maple fingerboard definitely has more of the twang factor you're looking for. The notes are tighter as well. Hope this helps Harold
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Post by Tom the Guitar Guy on Mar 11, 2006 15:49:09 GMT -7
And you didn't mention if you're playing on the bridge pickup alone or not. I know, seems basic - but you'll get a lot more twang there than in the middle position.
Hope that helps.
tomtheguitarguy
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azfenderman
New Member
Performing Classic Rock & Country Hits...
Posts: 28
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Post by azfenderman on Mar 20, 2006 11:58:23 GMT -7
Thanks Harold and tomtheguitarguy!
My Tele does have a maple neck and I do primarily use the bridge pup when 'twanging' or trying to twang in my case :-)
Thanks everyone for the helpful advice!!
AZ~
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 20, 2006 12:39:07 GMT -7
I just reread your first post. I think you can get a better tone without the cut and treble turned all the way up. That would make it very harsh. Try turning them way down and then bring them up slowly one at a time. With the treble off and the cut up you can hear that it brings up the very high sparkle. Get that where it sounds good and then bring the treble up enough to fill it in. Try the middle at noon and the bass wherever it sounds good. A good Tele tone if a full sound using the bridge pickup but you want the highs low enough to avoid the ice pick Fender amp sound.
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azfenderman
New Member
Performing Classic Rock & Country Hits...
Posts: 28
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Post by azfenderman on Mar 20, 2006 13:25:45 GMT -7
I just reread your first post. I think you can get a better tone without the cut and treble turned all the way up. That would make it very harsh. Try turning them way down and then bring them up slowly one at a time. With the treble off and the cut up you can hear that it brings up the very high sparkle. Get that where it sounds good and then bring the treble up enough to fill it in. Try the middle at noon and the bass wherever it sounds good. A good Tele tone if a full sound using the bridge pickup but you want the highs low enough to avoid the ice pick Fender amp sound. Thanks for your response billyguitar, Actually, my reference to using full treble and cut was only to indicate that even at those extreme settings, I'm not close to the ice-pick harsh tones that I've heard through other guitars/amps. In fact, it's still quite dark and not particularly twangy (like Jerry Donahue, Redd Volkaert, Scotty Anderson, etc.). For sure, the tone I'm getting isn't bad (afterall, I'm playing through a Z amp). I just want to be able to achieve more of the tone of the aforementioned players when I want/need to. Again, thanks for your input! AZ~
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Post by fishman on Mar 20, 2006 20:13:30 GMT -7
Well, I have learned at least for me after along time that if you want classic tele sounds, you need 2 things..1) Fender telecaster...2) Fender amp...there are lots of things that you can add on here, but for starters these two will get you on the right track....I agree with Myles and others that a Princeton reverb is a great amp/.//and silverfaces are fine...most of the lower powered fenders , deluxe, princeton, vibrolux (my favorite) and others were circut wise, simply left alone..so there is no major differences between BF and silver faced except $$... I love my MAZ38, but it can;t give me the "fender sound" like a fender guitar and a vintage fender amp...lets be clear on the amplification, I am not talking the "false fenders": as I call them, cause some of them do not even warrent mention..that aside....personally, I would get a tele with "vintage style" pickups, if you do not like fender, Frailins are, IMO good, and you can customize the wind if you choose...and a princton/deluxe/vibrolux/pro reverb(the pro is a great amp....like a lower power twin)...to satisfy that fender jones thats goin on.... With my MAZ38 I can get a great tele sound, although the amp really seems to hold its best stuff for strats...but it is not the same sound that i get when I plug into the fenders..due to obvious differences in build... I like to have that classic tele chicken picken'-jingle jangle- thing goin on....and there are different approaches to get there... But lets be in the real world here, Dr. Z builds and designs some great amps...at least from what I have experienced.....Leo Fender designed and built some great amps....at least from what I have experienced One better than the other?? Depends on your perception of better....I will say that this tone thing is a quest of epic proportions, and you can;t get there unless you go thru the process...to just buy all the stuff and then expect "the sound" is unrealistic...when the sound grabs your soul and that bell goes off....you will know....secret 1-there is no "one" sound....there are limitless combinations....thats what makes it so da*n frustrating!! I can only speak for myself but i have found the right tools make the job easier, but you have to have that sound in your head ...then figure out how to make it come thru your hands... I am old school big time,..but know a good amp when I hear one, and Z's are for me.. But there are some real good Fenders, out there too..
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Post by tele1962 on Mar 20, 2006 20:36:50 GMT -7
I agree with Fish on the Fender thing, especially in country. How many country riffs recorded somewhat recently has Brent Mason done with a Tele and a Twin? Nearly all of them!
Telecaster with decent pickups ( maybe even Fenders), blackface Fender amp...bridge PU, spank it and VOILA! But remember most of it is in the hands. That's just the best equipment to help you with!
Here's a quick fix. Go down memory lane. Find out who you heard, and chances are they played a Tele and a blackface Fender amp. James Burton, Roy Buchanan, early Pete Anderson, Brent Mason, etc.
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Post by Curt on Mar 21, 2006 8:05:41 GMT -7
If you want an option over vintage Fender in the amp dept., check out "Headstrong" amps, they build exact copies of Blackface Princeton and Deluxe Reverb amps (they will do others upon request). While I have not personaly played one, I hear they are quite good. Allen amps builds some that are said to be killers albeit with "tweaks" to enhance them.
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Post by rcrecelius on Mar 21, 2006 9:34:03 GMT -7
I think most of Brent Masons recording is done with a BF Deluxe Reverb nowadays...but you mentioned Redd Volkaert...heck Ive seen him get "his tone" playing through an old Peavey at the Continental Club!
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azfenderman
New Member
Performing Classic Rock & Country Hits...
Posts: 28
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Post by azfenderman on Mar 21, 2006 9:54:42 GMT -7
Guys, I really appreciate you all taking the time to share your thoughts, experience, etc. with me on this topic! It's all been very helpful and given me a lot to think about. One thing's for sure...there are a lot of variables that contribute to 'country tone' What actually 'sold' me on the Maz 18 Jr (vs a Fender amp) were Countryshawn's demos using his Jr. The 'country tone' he produces (using a stock HW 1 Tele, a Boss Compressor and some analog delay) is great (IMO)! For me (since I play in a classic rock and country band), I just want to be able to travel into 'twang country' when I need/want to without losing the tone I need to play the classic rock stuff. Again, thanks for the input. I'll post an update when, like fishman said, 'the sound grabs my soul and the bell goes off' :-) AZ~
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Post by real oldster on Mar 27, 2006 21:52:20 GMT -7
I hope your tone quest takes you where you want to go. Just a thought: 10s sound better to my ears than 9s.
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Post by Telemanic on Mar 28, 2006 16:01:33 GMT -7
Better late than never, but i think your specials may be limiting your air, and twang a bit. Definitely go for a lesser wound set, and i dont think anyone mentioned pick up height, is it possible that they're just jacked up too high? That could limit some dynamic response and kill the air, particularly with a hotter pick up like the B.S. Also i agree big time with Curt about the hands, and with fishman about the fenders, Nothin sounds like my 65 vibrolux rvb. except another one!! Best of luck
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azfenderman
New Member
Performing Classic Rock & Country Hits...
Posts: 28
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Post by azfenderman on Apr 5, 2006 9:56:02 GMT -7
Better late than never, but i think your specials may be limiting your air, and twang a bit. Definitely go for a lesser wound set, and i dont think anyone mentioned pick up height, is it possible that they're just jacked up too high? That could limit some dynamic response and kill the air, particularly with a hotter pick up like the B.S. Also i agree big time with Curt about the hands, and with fishman about the fenders, Nothin sounds like my 65 vibrolux rvb. except another one!! Best of luck Hey Oldster & Telemanic, Thanks for your thoughts as well. As an update, I just got my Tele back from the shop after getting a new 3-saddle bridge and Lollar '52s installed. I also had some fret work done as they had flattened out a bit. I definitely notice some additional 'twang'. I haven't experimented much with string gauges on the high end, but will try that as well. I'm also looking to purchase a second (back-up) amp and really like what I've read/heard about the Fender Vibrolux. I understand though that there are some mods that need to be done to address some noise, etc. Again, thanks for all the very helpful input! AZ~
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Post by jharris on Apr 5, 2006 16:07:01 GMT -7
Steel Saddles will give you the most twang for the buck
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