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Post by Scott on Mar 21, 2011 5:02:07 GMT -7
Coil tapping Humbuckers... O.K., 30 minutes until I order my New Lollar's and I just changed my mind on wiring... 50's Style wiring is now out the window... MojoTones Volume Mod, is out the window... I need the Best way to wire a Les Paul for Coil Tapping. I currently am looking at this: www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w_2ppIs there a better way? Thanks. Am I nuts for wanting to split the Lollars now? Do many of you Les Paul guys do this? |
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Post by Ben on Mar 21, 2011 5:18:53 GMT -7
Are you nuts you ask - I say definately not!
Coil Tapping humbuckers really opens up the tonal "chart" or so to speak. There are things that a single coil can't do that a humbucker can and the opposite is just as true.
I don't see any difference in wanting to have a coil tapped LP from any other guitar really, be it a PRS, Collings or other. If I had an LP and was modding it like you are, I would definately go for it.
Can't help you with the wiring though - I would leave that up to my luthier to tell me which one would be best to use as I'm not technical enough on that specific aspect of the guitar to be of any help!
Cheers
Ben
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Post by Scott on Mar 21, 2011 5:26:05 GMT -7
I'm doing it man...  Coil tapping is heading my way. But I was asked a question I cant answer... " As for wiring it, its dead easy. Do you want 2 pots because you think you'll use one pickup split with the other non-split? Because you can wire both splits to a single push/pull.
I'd consider parallel wiring too, it gives you a better tone (IMO), while still cancelling hum." It's making me think there is a better way than what I have posted above. I just don't know what that is...  I didn't need to speak with Jason any longer, and he was 3 hours behind Ohio time... Just ordered:  Shipping: Standard Ground Shipping: $14.25, Sales Tax: $0.00, Total:$344.25.. Out with my BurstBucker Pro's, in with some Lollar goodness! |
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Post by dei305 on Mar 21, 2011 6:14:03 GMT -7
BurstBucker Pro,
Check with Dave (Hairboy) about Lollar Imperials with coil tap option.
Thanks!
Rick
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Post by Scott on Mar 21, 2011 6:40:14 GMT -7
Will do... Thanks. ** Update **: Just found this... www.guitars101.com/forums/f68/coil-tapping-a-les-paul-40454.html" I would not bother about the coil taps. I think their usefulness is very limited, they only sound like an anemic single coil to me (your experience may vary!).
In my opinion, it is far more interesting to be able to select both pickups in series or in parallel. By default they are in parallel. If you hook them up in series via a push/pull switch, you'll get a beefier sound that I find more interesting. And you should be able to do that with the existing pickups!
Another thing I like to do on humbuckers (but you need 4-wire ones for this too) is to be able to select both coils in parallel (the normal humbucker uses two coils in series). This will still be humbucking, and it will have lower output, not quite like a single coil, but better (to my ears) generally than a coil tap.
The only case where a coil tap sounds good to me is in a strat with a humbucker at the bridge. In this case I coil tap the bridge to be able to get that "in between" sound, using the middle single coil plus one of the coils of the humbucker." I think I am starting to understand what he was saying... I may need the wiring info, to to be able to select both coils in parallel, one from each pickup.  |
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Post by Scott on Mar 21, 2011 8:02:01 GMT -7
This has been suggested to me... www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/triple-shot/triple_shot_swi/Anybody ever used these rings? Sad they don't do chrome. Could be a deal breaker for me. Also... www.mylespaul.com/forums/pickups/36045-seymour-duncan-triple-shot-switching-mounting-ring.html" I'd love to try a set (in cream) but it wouldn't be an in song sort of change. That said, you could get some pretty cool combinations going. I assume a pick can get in there and flip the switch. The demo I saw had the switches on the top of the pup. I would rather have them on the bottom so I don't have to see them unless I pivot the guitar up.
After all the switching methods I've tried, the only one I still use is what I call "wide" mode. Pull the neck tone pot up and the pups second coil is the second coil of the other pickup...so wide pickups in a sense. Sort of like some of the PRS sounds, inner/outer etc depending on where the 3-way is." In my reading, the Les Paul guys seem to like that "wide" mode. I would only need one push/pull pot for that I believe... and could keep my existing Chrome pickup rings.
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Post by Christopher on Mar 21, 2011 15:41:03 GMT -7
BB pro: I've had my LP wired with coil taps and didn't like it very much. I always found myself going back for the full on pup sound. The half was always weak and not very honkin'. I'd also like to add that the pulling of the pots can get tedious after a while, too. Try it out and see if it floats your boat. Congrats on the lollars. Those are some fine magnets there.
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Post by Scott on Mar 22, 2011 1:22:30 GMT -7
Thanks... I'm hearing that more and more. Did you ever try running in 'Wide mode' using both pups second coil, humbucking with each other? I think I just want one push pull pot for that, or have a wide and narrow mode providing both could be wired to one or two pot's. Still not sure the best way to go here, but I don't have to have the single coil split necessarily... I'm more thrilled their official Lollars!! BTW - Can anybody rattle off the Lollar wire color coding on the pickups? Is there anything I need to know here? (Because it's a good bet that I don't!) Also looking at this: talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php?topic=177929.0And wondering if the 6 position Free-Way switch could help me? And it's Chrome by nature! +1  It might be fun to have the 3 normal modes of a standard Les Paul, along with Bucking both in Wide, and Narrow mode? Never really running in single coil mode ever, but still requiring 4 lead pickups, to give max bucking configurations... ;D It has a nice ring to us Humbucker Fans! And normally, one thinks of getting 4 lead pickups to split the coils, not to allow for Wide and Narrow mode. Maybe not in this case? |
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Post by Keith on Mar 22, 2011 3:12:45 GMT -7
I agree with Teledaddyo, I have never heard a coil tapped humbucker that sounded as good as a half decent single coil except maybe a PRS. |
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Post by Scott on Mar 22, 2011 3:20:46 GMT -7
I think I now want to be Max Bucker Man with this guitar. Using a config that requires 4 lead pickups! |
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Post by John on Mar 22, 2011 5:11:32 GMT -7
MANY years ago, I coil tapped my LP....I didn't like it.
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Post by Scott on Mar 22, 2011 9:23:29 GMT -7
One more No-tap, thanks for the post... This is the best I can find so far... (Providing I pick up 2 push/pull pot's.) www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h2v2t3w2spI can get both humbuckers to be wired with themselves in parallel or series. I cant find any that let you select one coil from one pickup, to humbuck with a coil from the second pickup, giving me Wide or Narrow mode. I might have to scrap that idea? Still looking! |
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Post by teleric on Mar 22, 2011 11:26:38 GMT -7
I'm a fan of coil tapping - the Dragon II p/u's in my PRS cust 22 are tapped via the push/pull tone knob, which makes my PRS my primary gigging guitar because of the versatiliy of tones I can get from it - no changing guitars mid-set.
I do agree with the comments here that the SC tones from a tapped p/u are not nearly as "good" as a genuine SC p/u. SC pickups seem to be much more dynamic than a tapped HB in my exeperience, but the convenience trade off is worth it. Between songs, I'm usually trying to work the crowd and switch light programs for the next tune on the set list (on a sampler pad), so not having to switch guitars makes things a lot easier during gigs.
The one song that we cover that I really dig with the tapped PRS is the Smashing Pumpkins "Cherub Rock". My PRS does a decent job of hitting the clean SC tone on the intro which builds into a fairly distorted fuzzy tone and many times by the end of the tune I've switched over to full - HB crunch. You gotta build that song.
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Post by scotty on Mar 22, 2011 14:50:34 GMT -7
I'm in the no tap camp. When I had an LP I had it tapped and the split was not as good as the bucker or a decent single coil.
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Post by hairboy on Mar 22, 2011 16:39:57 GMT -7
In my opinion the difference is Lollar Imperials.I love the variations I get with my Les Paul and coil tapped Imperials.
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Post by doublecut on Mar 22, 2011 17:50:40 GMT -7
Love the Lollars. Congrats. Don't love to coil tap an LP. Just have not enjoyed the sound. On the other hand I coil tap a Lollar Imperial I use in the neck position on a tele and like that a lot.
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Post by nicholas on Mar 22, 2011 19:39:31 GMT -7
Well, I'll try to add a bit here. Please understand there are exceptions to the rules, and much more to it than this... but...
PRS Pups are three wire pups, and "tap" in a different manner than a traditional 4 wire humbucker.
A typical 4 conductor humbucker has two coils, tapping it drops one coil (think two seperate coils with an on off switch between them) leaving a single coil. Typically this leaves one half of a humbucker in full single coil mode. No opposing coil to buck hum..... and half output, given you have matched coil windings. This leaves a cool tone, but a single coil it is not. If using low to medium output pup"s in the 7.5-8.8 DC Resistance range it will leave 3.6-4.4 left. That will be the output of you pickup.
A traditional strat single coil, is around the 6-6.5 range.
A tapped humbucker, unless an overly hot humbucker has a much weaker output than a traditional single coil.
PRS uses a different approach with the 3 wire design. Rather than turning off a coil, the tap is mid way in the humbucker winding. Think of a variable resistor with a sliding contact, but the sliding contact fixed. This leaves both coils on in tap mode, it just eliminates some turns, and has less output. This leaves both coils on, for no hum, and higher output.... closer to a single coil. I have measured PRS pup's in tap mode and found them to be in the single coil range.
There is no way to make a humbucker sound just like a single coil. But the PRS design seems closer to me.
I agree with the above comment about the out of phase tone bieng a cooler option. It will only really be noticable in the both pup's on mode, add a coil tap to that....and it sounds way cool. Just look up Peter Green.
If you are looking for the most options on a single guitar. I would suggest one push/push tap for the coil split on both pups. One push/push for series/parallel.
And yes... push/push. I hate trying to pull up on a knob. Especially top hat gibson knobs.
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Post by Scott on Mar 22, 2011 20:27:27 GMT -7
I just keep reading this over and over... www.mylespaul.com/forums/pickups/36045-seymour-duncan-triple-shot-switching-mounting-ring.html" After all the switching methods I've tried, the only one I still use is what I call "wide" mode.
Pull the neck tone pot up and the pups second coil is the second coil of the other pickup... so wide pickups in a sense.
Sort of like some of the PRS sounds, inner/outer etc depending on where the 3-way is." If he can do that... I wish I could pull up one of my tone pots, and be in Wide mode. Pull up the other tone pot, and be in narrow mode. Pull both up, and have Wide and Narrow Mode active. With both tone pots in, have the 3 standard Les Paul modes. Always humbucking. |
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