|
Post by John on Sept 17, 2006 6:54:57 GMT -7
Does anyone have experience with lots of true bypass pedals still sucking tone?
The whole idea behind true bypass is to remove a pedal so it's circuitry doesn't suck a small portion of the tone. I've read from time to time in this forum that some people think that even having true bypass pedals will still take away from your original tone.
Does anyone have any experience with this?
Everything on my board is true bypass, or runs through a true bypass looper. (Four true bypass, two through loopers.)
I don't doubt there could be a micro drop in tone...but well worth having the pedals available. I don't notice anything. NOTHING like non true bypass. I have a late 70's Morley Wha pedal that is the WORST OF THE WORST when it comes to sucking tone. That's why for so many years I was sensitive to the issue and used multi effects units, and I used them in an effects loop. But now I'm using pedals and I'm wondering about the loss of tone. Not that I'm going to change anything, but I'm curious.
Anyone else? Anyone have any facts about this? Myles?
|
|
|
Post by Dr.T on Sept 17, 2006 8:36:36 GMT -7
Hi, in my experience 4 true/not true bypass pedals don't suck much tone... I own all true bypass too, and made all trials from 0 to 7 - 8. Probably with other amps we don't notice much because they aren't as pure as DrZ's. When 2 o 3 pedals are engaged in the chain I begin to hear loss of highs (a little, obviously) this due (i think) to more switches, more cable even if short and more jacks. When I play with the band , however, the problem doesn't exist even with 10 pedals!!!
I do have a Keeley looper and soon a Lehle D-loop (with the option of a buffer) because I play covers and in my chain there are 7 - 8 effects: I want max 4 effect in chain.
I think we have not to worry, many great guitarist play with Boss and have a nice tone...
|
|
|
Post by Lefty on Sept 17, 2006 8:38:14 GMT -7
Even with 100% true bypass pedals (not all that say they are TB are actually TB) you still have capacitance of your cables and loading between effects. Every time you "break" chain of your signal with a pedal TB or not you're adding capacitance. Even your looper is adding capacitance. Granted it's not as bad if you had all non TB pedals. Sometimes a good buffer is needed to keep your signal from deteriorating.
|
|
|
Post by Dr.T on Sept 17, 2006 8:50:28 GMT -7
That's right Lefty... I own some Fulltones "real" true B and when engaged alone both they leave signal pure but when added you can feel the difference. I went to some Stef Burns (nice guitarist, nice guy) live shows here in Italy (very few opportunity here), he plays with some Boss and others having a great tone. So I thought to myself: don't get frustrated with tone but with fingers!!
|
|
|
Post by foxx on Sept 17, 2006 9:13:18 GMT -7
Listening to an amp at home, you will hear every nuance, pedals will suck some tone, like Lefty said capacitance. I was using several AM pedals, a Budda Phatman, and a strobostomp. I found myself removing pedals from the chain to clear up my clean tone, I kept loosing high end. I just use a couple of pedals now, SS, Clone Chorus, and the Phatman. The loss with these is barely noticable.
|
|
|
Post by Telemanic on Sept 17, 2006 10:21:53 GMT -7
Well said foxx, at home i am very spastic about all this, and the whole cable direction thing blah blah, ..... but on stage i think its a lot less detectable. BUT, ......... i have to totaly agree with the tone loss, tru BP or not. Actually maybe not "tone" loss but to me its more of a loss of that "viceral" punch, and fast responce time. Its the reason ive always found a pedal board self defeating, and end up tolerating maybe only two pedals. Beyond that, i start to feel the slightly slower reponce. I love how fast the sound seems to just jump out of the amp, when you plug straight in! Like someone said, every time you add a connection, it takes just a tiny bit away. I do think it's important to acknowledge that some players are less concerned because of their styles, for instance Gilmore, ...... you need a blueprint to follow his signal chain, heavily effected, ( at least it has been in the past), but still has great tone! But thats his sound.
|
|
|
Post by mentalray on Sept 20, 2006 3:30:01 GMT -7
As soon as you habe a pedal in your chain, it takes some of your tone -even if it has true-bypass pedals. The reasons are more jacks and wires then the TP-pedal itself. Just campare the sound with and without effects. The less pedals you use the more your tone starts to ring... that´s at least my impression.
|
|
|
Post by Dr.T on Sept 20, 2006 4:32:33 GMT -7
I've done every trial (thanks to channel A/B of a mini-looper) to detect which and how many effects suck more, and the final sentence is that more of 3 pedals (even if true b.) suck tone. That's why I'm gonna buy an hand-made looper with 4 send & return to have at leas 3 pedals running and only if activated.
This, obviously for who needs a certain number of stomp boxes to have particular versatility in his gear. I'm the first thinking that who plays country or blues needs at least an OD or a boost and a delay.
|
|
|
Post by mentalray on Sept 20, 2006 4:54:27 GMT -7
I've done every trial (thanks to channel A/B of a mini-looper) to detect which and how many effects suck more, and the final sentence is that more of 3 pedals (even if true b.) suck tone. That's why I'm gonna buy an hand-made looper with 4 send & return to have at leas 3 pedals running and only if activated. This, obviously for who needs a certain number of stomp boxes to have particular versatility in his gear. I'm the first thinking that who plays country or blues needs at least an OD or a boost and a delay. Why a delay...? ;-)
|
|
|
Post by Dr.T on Sept 20, 2006 6:38:01 GMT -7
Sorry, I was thinking reverb and wrote delay...
|
|
mikek
Full Member
Posts: 144
|
Post by mikek on Sept 20, 2006 6:53:56 GMT -7
Even with 100% true bypass pedals (not all that say they are TB are actually TB) you still have capacitance of your cables and loading between effects. Every time you "break" chain of your signal with a pedal TB or not you're adding capacitance. Even your looper is adding capacitance. Granted it's not as bad if you had all non TB pedals. Sometimes a good buffer is needed to keep your signal from deteriorating. +1. I was ready to give up on my pedalboard because of the tone-suck with true bypass pedals. This summer I bought a VHT Valvulator and life is good now. Its worth considering if you love your pedal board, but are frustrated with its effect on tone. Fuzzes sound terrible after the Valvulator, but everything else sounds great (even the wah, which initially surprised me). After trying one now, I wouldn't have a pedalboard without some sort of high-quality buffer. PS - I saw a Valvulator in a Guitar One picture of Brad Paisley's rack, for you BP fans.
|
|
|
Post by Seńor Verde on Sept 30, 2006 10:16:58 GMT -7
I have 4 true bypass pedals on my board and have a Carl Martin Compressor first in line before them. The CM has a great buffer and helps restore the losses when running long cables and patch cords. I only turn it on when playing single with single coils, to boost the signal to humbucker levels. I also use George L's cables with soldered on Switchcraft plugs.
Does this sound as good as an 8 ft. cord going into the front of the amp? Not quite, but very close and I can use my pedals. It sounds way better than anything I have tried before and I get a LOT of compliments on my clean sounds.
|
|
|
Post by jwr on Sept 30, 2006 15:15:58 GMT -7
I started making my own cables with Canare cable and that helped a lot. I even made all the shorty's for my board and it made a huge difference. I put my Xotic RC first in my signal chain and leave it on all the time, and at band practice last week I tried my Maz Sr with and without my pedal board and for the first time, for me, I like my tone better with my board. It sounds more alive, I actually have more high end, more low end, more everything. Maybe try a RC in front of everything and see if that work's for ya. Jason
|
|