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Post by robb on Oct 20, 2006 8:40:20 GMT -7
Hey everyone, I have an early (1990 or so) Hammond-chassis Ghia (looks like a mini-plexi, red tolex, 2/3rd the size of a current one...)
I bought the amp used and it had some mangled assortment of tubes (sovtek power tubes, 2 EH 12ax7's). Fortunately it still had the stock NOS GE rectifier in it. I've since replaced the tubes with GT EL84's (7 rating) a GT 5751 and a GT 12AX7M.
I dont know if some caps or resistors are different in the old amp, but it doesnt sound like a new Ghia...and I'm aware that the tone control works backwards on the older models (or backwards on newer models more accurately).....with my '54 Historic Paul it sounds awesome. But with a strat or tele, it's BRUTAL (to the point of being unlistenable in the upper mids), regardless of where the tone control is set....it's either ear spliiting or mud with no middle ground it seems.....the amp seems to have too much upper mid "honk" and way too much presence. As I fiddle with tubes, the problem gets slightly better, but it's still not where I want it. I'm wondering if maybe the thing was modded by the previous owner? I havent opened it up yet.
Dont get me wrong, the amp still sounds really good, but I'm looking for perfection. Any reccomendations?
(FYI my cabs are a ZBest 2x12 and an open back Z 2x10)
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Post by Dana {aka gp} on Oct 21, 2006 10:06:06 GMT -7
Hi Robb, I've got a Hammond-based Ghia, too, and I've found that varying V1 provides a tremendous amount of leverage in determining the overall tonality of the amp. However, between different playing styles, guitars, cables and speakers, there are *way* too many variables for there to be just one optimal solution and it really does come down to using your own ears to find what works best for you. I've settled-in on an NOS GE 5751 (balanced only in that both sides read the same on an old tube tester) in V2 and JJ's in the power section. I'm using an original Hammond labeled 5Y3 (RCA made, I think) as the rectifier. In V1, I've fooled with everything from newer Chinese and Sovtek offerings to a dog's breakfast of NOS and just plain old American and European tubes. Depending on the guitar and how hot I'm running the amp, V1 makes a huge difference. For clean tones (volume settings below 10:00), the difference isn't as dramatic as it is at noon and beyond. Generally, tubes with too much high end response tend to harsh my mellow. The Chinese tubes actually do pretty well in this regard but to my ears get too mushy at higher gain settings. My favorite tube (for this week) is actually an old mystery tube that is labeled both RCA (in red) and 'Made in Gt. Britain' in white. I've tried USA-made NOS RCA's, too, but found them too bright. Do you have any pictures of your amp? One of mine is below. Best regards, -Dana
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Post by bukowski on Oct 21, 2006 11:50:48 GMT -7
thats awesome gp I've settled on 5751 in v1 nos rca blackplates mines a 2005 ghia ,I've been tracking a little lately with the ghia it records beautifully
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Post by Dana {aka gp} on Oct 21, 2006 12:19:19 GMT -7
I bought the amp used and it had some mangled assortment of tubes (sovtek power tubes, 2 EH 12ax7's). Fortunately it still had the stock NOS GE rectifier in it. I've since replaced the tubes with GT EL84's (7 rating) a GT 5751 and a GT 12AX7M. Question: Are the Groove Tubes EL84's you're using the JJ-made or the Sovtek-made models? The JJ's have a 'halo' getter (looks kinda like a paper clip bent into a circle and mounted toward the pointy end of the tube) up top whereas the Sovtek tubes have a solid, flying saucer shaped getter. I ask because I *strongly* prefer the JJ version in the taste testing I've done with my Groove Tubes Soul-O Single and Epiphone Valve Junior. In the Valve Junior, which has no tone controls, switching from the Sovtek to the JJ tube smoothed-out the sound very nicely. I haven't tried the Sovtek EL84's in my Ghia but I would expect them to have a more harsh sound than the JJ's. Best, -Dana
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Post by Dana {aka gp} on Oct 21, 2006 12:22:13 GMT -7
thats awesome gp I've settled on 5751 in v1 nos rca blackplates mines a 2005 ghia ,I've been tracking a little lately with the ghia it records beautifully Have you tried 5751's in both V1 & V2? I haven't because I've been worried it would kill too much of the highs but I think I may give it a try. Another combo I'm going to check out is a 5751 in V1 and a 12BH7A in V2. What power tubes are you running? What others have you tried? -Dana
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Post by tjstrat on Oct 21, 2006 15:17:40 GMT -7
I bought the amp used and it had some mangled assortment of tubes (sovtek power tubes, 2 EH 12ax7's). Fortunately it still had the stock NOS GE rectifier in it. I've since replaced the tubes with GT EL84's (7 rating) a GT 5751 and a GT 12AX7M. Question: Are the Groove Tubes EL84's you're using the JJ-made or the Sovtek-made models? The JJ's have a 'halo' getter (looks kinda like a paper clip bent into a circle and mounted toward the pointy end of the tube) up top whereas the Sovtek tubes have a solid, flying saucer shaped getter. I ask because I *strongly* prefer the JJ version in the taste testing I've done with my Groove Tubes Soul-O Single and Epiphone Valve Junior. In the Valve Junior, which has no tone controls, switching from the Sovtek to the JJ tube smoothed-out the sound very nicely. I haven't tried the Sovtek EL84's in my Ghia but I would expect them to have a more harsh sound than the JJ's. Best, -Dana In my very humble opinion and limited experience, JJs in general seem to breathe a little more and are smoother than Sovteks. The Sovteks always sound choked and boxy to me. My experiences though are with amps other than my Zs. JJs won me over a long time ago, thanks to Bob at Eurotubes. I have a Raytheon 12AX7 and a National 5751 in my '05 Ghia, with JJ 84s. Can't recall the rectifier. I carry JJs as spares with a couple GT 12AX7 Mullard clones in the mix as well.
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Post by robb on Oct 21, 2006 19:17:24 GMT -7
I should have been more specific...I'm running the EL84S' (i put the apostrophe in the wrong place) so they are the JJ ones...havent really experimented with many power tubes other than those and the old sovteks.
For preamp tubes, the 12ax7M has been my winner so far in V1...I tried a tung sol reissue which was nice, but too bright for this amp...JJ ECC83 was awful, the EH 12AX7's had way too much gain for my tastes, and I even tried a 12AY7 with less than favorable results....I'll try a second 5751 and see what happens.
And Dana, my amp looks IDENTICAL to yours.
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Post by bukowski on Oct 22, 2006 9:10:11 GMT -7
thats awesome gp I've settled on 5751 in v1 nos rca blackplates mines a 2005 ghia ,I've been tracking a little lately with the ghia it records beautifully Have you tried 5751's in both V1 & V2? I haven't because I've been worried it would kill too much of the highs but I think I may give it a try. Another combo I'm going to check out is a 5751 in V1 and a 12BH7A in V2. What power tubes are you running? What others have you tried? -Dana yes I have a 5751in v2 a (balanced ge )groove tubes el84 and a raython 5ar4 I play teles and jazz the highs are find I adjust the tone on guitar and amp to taste its easy and fast p.s are the tubes mike at kca has that are jj el84s groove tubes ?
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Post by Dana {aka gp} on Oct 23, 2006 10:21:59 GMT -7
p.s are the tubes mike at kca has that are jj el84s groove tubes ? Checking the KCA web site [ www.kcanostubes.com/content/estore_list.asp?category=32&catname=6BQ5%2FEL84%2F7189A], I don't see that he's carrying any JJ or Groove Tubes EL84/6BQ5's at all - they all appear to be NOS. For new production EL84's, maybe Myles could recommend a retail source. One of the nice things about Groove Tubes is that not only would they be matched, but they're also available in different distortion ratings (you can ask for clean, dirty, or in-between versions). Myles could also specify which GT part numbers specify the ones that are JJ-made. Another benefit of GT tubes is that they carry a guarantee. I've never bought any bad ones, but I know that my local dealer (Ken at Hillsboro Music) would make things right for me if I did (because he knows that GT is going to treat him fairly). Best regards, -Dana
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Post by bukowski on Oct 23, 2006 12:33:36 GMT -7
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Post by bukowski on Oct 23, 2006 12:34:16 GMT -7
sorry for the high jack robb
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Post by Dana {aka gp} on Oct 23, 2006 13:08:11 GMT -7
Doh! Color me blind for missing the JJ's hidden carefully on the first page! How do the Tesla tubes compare to the JJ's? -Dana
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dave
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by dave on Oct 26, 2006 9:54:52 GMT -7
Hi Robb, I just LOVE that cab for the Hammond Ghias! Any chance of a re-issue?!!
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Post by prowler on Oct 26, 2006 10:46:08 GMT -7
You know... a re-issue Hammond era Ghia would be an amp to own for sure.
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Post by myles on Oct 26, 2006 16:23:07 GMT -7
Hi Robb, I've got a Hammond-based Ghia, too, and I've found that varying V1 provides a tremendous amount of leverage in determining the overall tonality of the amp. However, between different playing styles, guitars, cables and speakers, there are *way* too many variables for there to be just one optimal solution and it really does come down to using your own ears to find what works best for you. I've settled-in on an NOS GE 5751 (balanced only in that both sides read the same on an old tube tester) in V2 and JJ's in the power section. I'm using an original Hammond labeled 5Y3 (RCA made, I think) as the rectifier. In V1, I've fooled with everything from newer Chinese and Sovtek offerings to a dog's breakfast of NOS and just plain old American and European tubes. Depending on the guitar and how hot I'm running the amp, V1 makes a huge difference. For clean tones (volume settings below 10:00), the difference isn't as dramatic as it is at noon and beyond. Generally, tubes with too much high end response tend to harsh my mellow. The Chinese tubes actually do pretty well in this regard but to my ears get too mushy at higher gain settings. My favorite tube (for this week) is actually an old mystery tube that is labeled both RCA (in red) and 'Made in Gt. Britain' in white. I've tried USA-made NOS RCA's, too, but found them too bright. Do you have any pictures of your amp? One of mine is below. Best regards, -Dana THAT AMP IS SO COOL LOOKING IT'S JUST INSANE!
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Post by myles on Oct 26, 2006 16:24:47 GMT -7
p.s are the tubes mike at kca has that are jj el84s groove tubes ? Checking the KCA web site [ www.kcanostubes.com/content/estore_list.asp?category=32&catname=6BQ5%2FEL84%2F7189A], I don't see that he's carrying any JJ or Groove Tubes EL84/6BQ5's at all - they all appear to be NOS. For new production EL84's, maybe Myles could recommend a retail source. One of the nice things about Groove Tubes is that not only would they be matched, but they're also available in different distortion ratings (you can ask for clean, dirty, or in-between versions). Myles could also specify which GT part numbers specify the ones that are JJ-made. Another benefit of GT tubes is that they carry a guarantee. I've never bought any bad ones, but I know that my local dealer (Ken at Hillsboro Music) would make things right for me if I did (because he knows that GT is going to treat him fairly). Best regards, -Dana I always use the EL84S in a 5-6 rating in all my EL84 amps. BUT ... in your case Dana ... if you are ever in Los Angeles I will give you a few output tube changes as your amp is one of the coolest things I have ever seen.
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Post by Dana {aka gp} on Oct 28, 2006 10:30:05 GMT -7
I always use the EL84S in a 5-6 rating in all my EL84 amps. BUT ... in your case Dana ... if you are ever in Los Angeles I will give you a few output tube changes as your amp is one of the coolest things I have ever seen. Thanks, Myles! The next time I'm in LA, I'll bring my Ghia and take you up on your kind offer! I'd love to check out your amp collection and your endorsement of the Carmen Ghia was a powerful influence on my decision to seek one out. If the PNWZO Club manages to organize a regional 'Tone Fest', it would be fantastic if you could join the festivities. The ideal would be to schedule it to coincide with Buddy Whittington's next tour of the area... Very best regards, -Dana
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dewman
Junior Member
Posts: 86
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Post by dewman on Nov 1, 2006 19:17:41 GMT -7
Might want to also double check that the conjunctive filter is still intact. Some tube failures can cause inadvertent secondary problems that lead to a harsher brittle tone. I had an amp I let go of because I wasn't in love with the tone, only to find that the new owner opened her up and part of the conjunctive filter was lifted from the board due to a component failing. he put it back together and it was ok. I think it is chronicled here on the forum. Anyway, it might not be a problem at all, but something to consider besides obvious tube issues. A quick inspection would also tell you i the amp had been modded too potentially. be careful to discharge caps properly though or see a good tech. Hopefully the tubes are the solution.
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dewman
Junior Member
Posts: 86
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Post by dewman on Nov 1, 2006 19:22:05 GMT -7
I think this amp, or one identical to this one was on ebay a few months ago. Is this where you bought it? If it was I am sorry I lost the auction. The first Z I played was a Black Hammond style Ghia in NJ at the Cherry Hill GC. I could have had it for 800 bones and kick myself that I didn't pick it up then. It sounded so remarkable to me at that time (late 90s, early 2000s??). Instantly I thought- God I gotta get better as a player if these wonderful amps are revealing all of my faults. Absolutely killer tone with an old Marshall 4x12 w/ the stock speakers (75s I believe). Really eye openeing experience, and bought my first Ghia not too long afterwards.
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