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Post by taswegian on Oct 8, 2006 21:24:14 GMT -7
I have a question for all those Ghia/66 owners (Curt, Drewtunes..) out there or whoever is in the know. I've been running my Route 66 at 10 oclock all knobs for alot of coverband gigs. I know there are heaps of variables but could someone gig me a rough idea of where the ghia is in terms of volume and break up at this volume. I presume it would be a similar volume at 10 oclock-11, but starting to break up nicely... Anyway, any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks
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Post by zman on Oct 9, 2006 11:34:04 GMT -7
The Ghia & and Maz-18 are the amps I came from before settling on the 66. I really tested the limits with both amps at many shows. Granted, I do use an air brake (on 2) when gigging with the 66. But I have found the tone to be more expressive, rich and full using the extra watts but still taming them a little.
The Ghia is still a loud amp that stays clean until 9 or 10 on the dial depending on the guitar. I love the ghia for a pure clean guitar to amp tone bar none.....
However, for gigging I much prefer the 66 for many reasons. Takes pedals much more easily, standby switch for breaks, has a much more rich and full tone to me, has room for added volume if needed.... and lastly I always got the Great tone comments when using the 66.
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Post by Curt on Oct 9, 2006 20:16:05 GMT -7
I have a question for all those Ghia/66 owners (Curt, Drewtunes..) out there or whoever is in the know. I've been running my Route 66 at 10 oclock all knobs for alot of coverband gigs. I know there are heaps of variables but could someone gig me a rough idea of where the ghia is in terms of volume and break up at this volume. I presume it would be a similar volume at 10 oclock-11, but starting to break up nicely... Anyway, any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks Hey Jaye, been on the road and just saw this. IMO the Ghia is actually pretty clean up 'til about 1:30 on volume, then it is a wonderful natural tube overdrive that is incomperable. but that is pretty loud and I could never get away with it that loud so I always used a Keeley BD-2 in front, this with a single V-30. It seemed WAY nastier..in a good way for what your after with a stock Z best. Not sure if that helps, but I'll share this, I'm after a replacement Ghia.
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Post by zman on Oct 10, 2006 7:41:51 GMT -7
I should have added, to what I wrote as well... I use humbucker guitars. So that is why the 66 was a better match for me I feel. The humbuckers did make my Ghia start breaking up a little earlier. Do I want a Ghia again?? YES!! I loved playing that amp with my Strat.... I miss the raw punchy feel of the Ghia. I'm considering the Ghia in a A/B rig with my 66 on stage. I would use the Ghia for the cleaner stuff not using my air brake. However, I have yet to try a Z-28 so I'm torn.
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Post by taswegian on Oct 10, 2006 7:53:36 GMT -7
I'm using humbuckers too and I think they'd hit the front end pretty hard but I'm trying to get some break up at low volume for the small clubs the cover band plays in. I would like to have something to save dragging my beloved Rt 66 to every gig. Especially the ones where it's hardly on. I'd like to save my GEC kt66's, ef86, and 1954 steel based Mullard GZ34 for as long as possible. We did a private function for a young lawyers group Fri night and our first set we played while they ate dinner. The Route 66 was on 9 oclock all knobs into my 1-12!!! I've thought about a vox AC-15 but...I think a ghia would be way cooler.
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Post by taswegian on Oct 10, 2006 7:59:19 GMT -7
. However, I have yet to try a Z-28 so I'm torn. I love the Z28. There's quite a bit of headroom in the one I play too. It has that sparkle that the 66 doesn't, and has a pretty grinding overdrive too.
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Post by zman on Oct 10, 2006 9:36:44 GMT -7
. However, I have yet to try a Z-28 so I'm torn. I love the Z28. There's quite a bit of headroom in the one I play too. It has that sparkle that the 66 doesn't, and has a pretty grinding overdrive too. Volume wise because you have the 66 and 28... Wat can you get away with on the 28 that the 66 dosen't give up so easy? Thanks
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Post by drew on Oct 10, 2006 11:35:43 GMT -7
Hey Tas, I just got back from a trip to PA and had no access to the internet. I'll check out my 66 & ghia volumes and will reply back with my findings.
Drew
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Post by zman on Oct 10, 2006 12:47:16 GMT -7
COOLLLLL!!
It would be nice if you could put the Z-28 in the mix as well. ;D
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Post by Curt on Oct 10, 2006 15:43:39 GMT -7
Jaye, I've considered a AC-15CC as well, they sound really cool and with the cheaper speaker they sell for $599 here...but..once a Z hound always a Z hound I'm afraid...and used Ghia combos sell for +/- $950..double but worth it really.
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Post by taswegian on Oct 10, 2006 19:43:26 GMT -7
Drewtunes, that would be awesome, thanks for going to the trouble. Zman, the Z28 isn't mine, it's my brother not in laws but he lets me use it alot. I did a gig with all settings on 3 oclock and then switched to my Rt 66 for the last set. I had the 66 set at all knobs 12 oclock to have the same volume, but of course the rt66 was alot cleaner at that setting. The Z28 definitely gives it up sooner but it's still a LOUD amp at those settings. Curt, I recently saw a vintage with the vox blue speaker for a good price. It would be cool to have but I'd rather the peace of mind the ghia would bring in terms of reliability, let alone tone. Plus with my Zbest and Ulbrick 1-12 a head makes more sense. It's probably a long term plan for me anyway...unless I receive a sudden windfall!
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Post by zman on Oct 10, 2006 20:33:10 GMT -7
Thanks, that is so some good info. I need to own another Z amp. I came from a Ghia to a Maz-18 then to the 66. The Maz is a professional amp.... but personally I just love less knobs.
I just wish I knew what would be a better fit for me between the Ghia & Z-28. The video and audio clips of a cranked Z-28 and buckers just sound killer.
Owning a Ghia awhile ago now.... I don't recall the tone get as nasty as the clips I heard of a cranked Z-28. Just need to add another flavor.
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Post by taswegian on Oct 10, 2006 20:52:56 GMT -7
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Post by drew on Oct 12, 2006 7:06:02 GMT -7
Drewtunes, that would be awesome, thanks for going to the trouble. Hey Tas, I've not forgotten just lookin for an opportunity, been busier than a one legged man in a butt kickin contest. The comparison is a cool idea. I'm shooting for today. Any other comparisons you're looking for, in a moderate volume range as it will be in the house. Drew
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Post by zman on Oct 12, 2006 7:09:29 GMT -7
Well lets add this into the discussion.
Considering I use a air brake (on 2) with my 66. I have read many times that people dislike using a air brake with the Ghia, but said it was fine with the Z28.
So if the Z28 accepts the air brake better then the Ghia.... would it be fair to say it would be easier to get grind out of the Z28 easier than running straight into a Ghia not attenuated?
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Post by taswegian on Oct 12, 2006 7:44:23 GMT -7
Drewtunes, that would be awesome, thanks for going to the trouble. Hey Tas, I've not forgotten just lookin for an opportunity, been busier than a one legged man in a butt kickin contest. The comparison is cool idea. I'm shooting for today. Any other comparisons you're looking for, in a moderate volume range as it will be in the house. Drew No worries Drew, I just want a rough guide as to where the Ghia is with the volume similar to 10 oclock all knobs on the 66 as that is usually the volume I am in the coverband I would use it in. Also a comparison of where the 66 is when the Ghia starts to "get some hair" would be much appreciated. No rush. (although there is a ghia head that matches my Zbest on ebay right now) Zman, it's a good point. The Z28 with a 12ax7 in V2 will break up quicker too so it's probably possible to get it hairy at a very reasonable volume with the airbrake. For this particular cover gig I use about 7-8 pedals. I don't like the way pedals respond with the airbrake and that many pedals in use. Straight in is great but I'd rather an unattenuated signal with the pedals. I've played the Z28 for this particular gig and it was great. Didn't get it into break up territory but I was using the Z-Best. I'm just looking for something a bit more "British", since I have access to the Z28 anyway. I'm hoping it could cover the classic rock thing I'm in, for the smaller clubs as well.
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Post by drew on Oct 12, 2006 11:57:32 GMT -7
OK, Here's what I found. Guitar: Fender Strat w/kinman blues which are med/low output w/nice transparent tone and low noise. Cab: Open back 1x12 cab w/texas heat. Jaye, 10s across the board is a nice setting on the 66. No crunch but nice touch and tone. To match that volume on the ghia (fresh set of GTs #6): V = 11.5 and T = 12. BTW: This ghia setting is the sweet spot for my ghia YMMV. (note: the 66 has bigger bottom so it's a bit deceiving) It has great chime & balance and is somewhat clean using a normal string attack. This is my max V for clean. With this setting a heavy handed string attack puts me in the crunch zone, granted my heavy is very heavy. (I can break a string just by staring it down??? Kreskin would be impressed, I'm just frustrated) Increasing V setting creates more OD with a small volume increase, dime the V and my ghia is a snarling rip snortin tone monster!!!) As far as the airbrake goes, I had an interesting experience. My ghia came with JJ El84s. It sounded good cranked but when I hooked up the airbrake and dimmed the ghia it's OD was not musical so initially I didn't like the airbrake with the ghia. Here's the interesting part. I put new GTs in the ghia and wallah, dime the ghia and the OD was musical. Output tubes make a difference. The airbrake is a valuable tool but it messes with my head as the feel and response is not the same. Of course neither is the volume and speaker response so it's hard for me to tell. Hope this helps, Drew
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Post by taswegian on Oct 12, 2006 16:05:31 GMT -7
Thanks for going to the trouble Drew, thats very helpful. Sounds like the ghia would be in the perfect place for the small club cover band. I would think my humbuckers would have it a little more dirty than your singles. I presume it will clean up nicely with a little roll back at that volume too. hmmm. Interesting find with the airbrake too. BTW, nice plexi 66 ;D
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Post by johnnyl on Oct 12, 2006 16:19:19 GMT -7
oh yeah... really enjoying the humbuckers with the ghia lately... did I mention that Taz?
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Post by taswegian on Oct 12, 2006 18:00:17 GMT -7
I wish you hadn't ;D
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Post by Curt on Oct 12, 2006 18:40:06 GMT -7
Jaye, NEVER discount a Jr NR for classic rock tones !! Dime the volume and set the master to the room/gig and it is Angus city with 'buckers
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Post by zman on Oct 12, 2006 20:10:01 GMT -7
Drew, I was somewhat confused with what you wrote on the bottom of when you tried an air brake with the Ghia. Were you saying when you installed some fresh GTs into the Ghia it sounded better using the air brake?
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Post by drew on Oct 12, 2006 22:29:38 GMT -7
Drew, I was somewhat confused with what you wrote on the bottom of when you tried an air brake with the Ghia. Were you saying when you installed some fresh GTs into the Ghia it sounded better using the air brake? Hey Zman, Sorry for the confusion. For me, the ghia sounds best without the airbrake. Guitar/cord/ghia.... nice!!! Here's the scenario that happened: - older JJ tubes w/airbrake and the ghia cranked - not a musical breakup. (not that JJ tubes are bad but the set I had didn't work well with a dimed ghia and airbrake) - New GT tubes w/airbrake and the ghia cranked - musical OD. Too much compression for my liking but it was musical. Hope this helps, Drew
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Post by myles on Oct 13, 2006 9:41:44 GMT -7
Drew, I was somewhat confused with what you wrote on the bottom of when you tried an air brake with the Ghia. Were you saying when you installed some fresh GTs into the Ghia it sounded better using the air brake? Hey Zman, Sorry for the confusion. For me, the ghia sounds best without the airbrake. Guitar/cord/ghia.... nice!!! Here's the scenario that happened: - older JJ tubes w/airbrake and the ghia cranked - not a musical breakup. (not that JJ tubes are bad but the set I had didn't work well with a dimed ghia and airbrake) - New GT tubes w/airbrake and the ghia cranked - musical OD. Too much compression for my liking but it was musical. Hope this helps, Drew Drew, The hard pushed EL84 amps really need tubes that have known specs and performance at a given point in their operating range, not just at idle. Most tube testers work only at idle. That is one reason the stock Z tubes are generally GT EL84S #5 or #6 only as this rating is dynamic over the entire operating range not just at idle. This is why a JJ and the EL84S can sound and play quite differently as they performance curves may be and probably will be very different unless the long odds were on your side.
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Post by drew on Oct 13, 2006 11:08:37 GMT -7
Thanks Myles! IMO The additional testing at GT is worth the cost.
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Post by Don on Oct 14, 2006 14:31:22 GMT -7
As far as the airbrake goes, I had an interesting experience. My ghia came with JJ El84s. It sounded good cranked but when I hooked up the airbrake and dimmed the ghia it's OD was not musical so initially I didn't like the airbrake with the ghia. Here's the interesting part. I put new GTs in the ghia and wallah, dime the ghia and the OD was musical. Output tubes make a difference. Drew - My first Ghia (combo) came with JJs in the power section. I thought it was the best sounding amp I ever heard until I purchased my second Ghia (head). This one came with GT #7s. Just for the hell of it, I swapped out the tubes so I could hear the difference through my Celestion Blue, and the hair on my neck rose! The GTs were much more musical. (No airbrake here.) I now keep the GTs in my #1 and the JJs in my #2 for a different flavor.
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Post by taswegian on Oct 14, 2006 19:48:04 GMT -7
Thanks for all your help guys, bear in mind that for me, by the time I buy a new ghia and have it arrive on my doorstep it will have cost me around $1550 US. So it is important to get as much information as possible. At the time I purchased my Route 66 the dollar was pretty weak and it cost me around $2700 US. That's without the Zbest which was very expensive to Fed Ex because of the weight. By the time I put my NOS valves in I'd sunk around $3100 US into my Route 66 head. Believe me I was very relieved when I plugged in the first time! That's why I have to buy it once, and it's important to know exactly what I want/need before I go ahead and purchase. I've never made alot of money so it's a serious decision. That's also why it would be good to get my parents to buy one while they are in the States and try to bring it back with them, as that would negate shipping and possibly tax and duty. But unless it was in a road case it would be pretty scary. Bottom line is, you guys are on a good thing, don't take it for granted and God Bless the Doc for his generous pricing!
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Post by drew on Oct 15, 2006 7:48:40 GMT -7
Thanks for all your help guys, bear in mind that for me, by the time I buy a new ghia and have it arrive on my doorstep it will have cost me around $1550 US. Bottom line is, you guys are on a good thing, don't take it for granted and God Bless the Doc for his generous pricing! Glad to help Jaye. Feel free to request more info. To quote the good Doc; "Tone, tone, tone, tone. Is there a substitute?" --Dr. Z We did a gig Friday which required a soundman. I requested more guitar in the monitor. He suggested I put the amp up on a box or stand. Without hesitating I quickly replied, no thanks I want to keep it on the floor and let it roar. Then I thought to myself, "uh oh... bad thing to say to a soundman!" He did as requested, the gig was great. At the end of the gig the soundman complimented the ghia and said it was roaring, in a good way. Don, I hear the celestion blue is a great speaker for the ghia. Thanks for sharing. Rock ON!
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