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Post by John on Sept 22, 2006 7:23:56 GMT -7
I have been using a Marshall Powerbrake since the early 90's. I never felt the need to use/try anything else as I felt it did the job. But I've read in forums like this, that the Marshall isn't thought of very highly.
I was able to score a Weber Mass 100 watt attenuator from ebay. I cranked it up and A/B'd back and forth this morning. Here are my observations:
Used Tele w/ Maz Jr 2x12 combo, then switched to 335 w/ Route 66 w 1x12 closed back w/ V 30. And I was attenuating quite a bit in both cases.
By far the most notable thing was the Marshall's sucking of midrange. After almost 15 years with it, I had no idea it did this. I knew when I used it, the tone would be slightly different, but I figured this was due to the speaker running a lower volumes. (they do sound different at different volumes) If I felt there was a lack of mids, I always figured "When I play the gig, I'll be playing louder so the mids will come back."
When switching to the Route 66 with the 335 (a very mid scooped guitar) it seemed to distort sooner with more sizzle. I liked it. Seemed more aggresive and dynamic. However, because of the increased mids, I don't know if I have enough high end coming through. The cabinet is a closed box, which rolls off your high end faster. I'll have to try it at a gig and report back. I did roll back the bass on the amp and that helped considerably. I originally had it at 3:30, but turned it down to about 1:30 or 2...made a big difference. Even with the tele and the Maz, I found myself increasing the treble from 9:30 to 11:00
Also, the Weber is not as compressed. The Marshall, in addition to sucking the mids, is noticably more compressed. In certain circumstances, that's not such a bad thing. I remember A/B'ing back and forth, and thinking the Marshall is giving it a kind of cool sound. Sucking the mids and adding compression. I liked the sound, but realized that I should be achiving this with the amp and pedals, not the attenuator.
Third thing: The Marshall's got a flabby low end. Really noticable with the Route 66 and the Gibson 335. I always thought it was the amp and guitar. Now that nice tight bottom end of the 66 is coming through!
Final thing: The Marshall's got individual 'clicks' to adjust volume, the Weber has a continous dial. I like the continuous dial. I've been in gigs where I've been asked to turn down, but one click down is way too much.
Anybody want to buy a Marshall Powerbrake?
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Post by dock66 on Sept 22, 2006 9:32:25 GMT -7
I have been using a Marshall Powerbrake since the early 90's. I never felt the need to use/try anything else as I felt it did the job. But I've read in forums like this, that the Marshall isn't thought of very highly. I was able to score a Weber Mass 100 watt attenuator from ebay. I cranked it up and A/B'd back and forth this morning. Here are my observations: Used Tele w/ Maz Jr 2x12 combo, then switched to 335 w/ Route 66 w 1x12 closed back w/ V 30. And I was attenuating quite a bit in both cases. By far the most notable thing was the Marshall's sucking of midrange. After almost 15 years with it, I had no idea it did this. I knew when I used it, the tone would be slightly different, but I figured this was due to the speaker running a lower volumes. (they do sound different at different volumes) If I felt there was a lack of mids, I always figured "When I play the gig, I'll be playing louder so the mids will come back." When switching to the Route 66 with the 335 (a very mid scooped guitar) it seemed to distort sooner with more sizzle. I liked it. Seemed more aggresive and dynamic. However, because of the increased mids, I don't know if I have enough high end coming through. The cabinet is a closed box, which rolls off your high end faster. I'll have to try it at a gig and report back. I did roll back the bass on the amp and that helped considerably. I originally had it at 3:30, but turned it down to about 1:30 or 2...made a big difference. Even with the tele and the Maz, I found myself increasing the treble from 9:30 to 11:00 Also, the Weber is not as compressed. The Marshall, in addition to sucking the mids, is noticably more compressed. In certain circumstances, that's not such a bad thing. I remember A/B'ing back and forth, and thinking the Marshall is giving it a kind of cool sound. Sucking the mids and adding compression. I liked the sound, but realized that I should be achiving this with the amp and pedals, not the attenuator. Third thing: The Marshall's got a flabby low end. Really noticable with the Route 66 and the Gibson 335. I always thought it was the amp and guitar. Now that nice tight bottom end of the 66 is coming through! Final thing: The Marshall's got individual 'clicks' to adjust volume, the Weber has a continous dial. I like the continuous dial. I've been in gigs where I've been asked to turn down, but one click down is way too much. Anybody want to buy a Marshall Powerbrake? Gtrman3, After you have done the shootout,Now try Z air brake and let us know what you think. I think that you will be pleasently surprized.To me Z air brake is a keeper. ;D ;D ;D dock66
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Post by billyguitar on Sept 22, 2006 11:15:54 GMT -7
I used a Powerbrake a great deal when I used a Marshall 1/2 stack. I never used it more than down 2 clicks. Soundwise the only attenuator worse sounding than the Marshall is the Sholz. I sold my Marshall PB for $75. That was too cheap but I wanted it gone.
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Post by John on Sept 22, 2006 11:37:59 GMT -7
I can never find an airbrake cheap enough. I do have a bit of a problem with the general concept. The Weber has a moving speaker coil in it. This changes the resistance as the dynamics do. The airbrake is a resistance load only. Also, the airbrake has the 'clicks' I mentioned earlier.
My 1971 100 watt marshall (no master volume) melted a Sholtz unit about 1988.
Marshall Powerbrakes are still going for about $175-$200 on Ebay.
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messenger
Full Member
life is good!
Posts: 194
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Post by messenger on Sept 22, 2006 12:01:58 GMT -7
i have tom sholz power soak also.use to use it some yrs ago with a ampig vt 22.ampig had no mstr. vol.one loud amp!also had altec spkrs. in it.lound & heavy.could be the reason for back achs & hearing problems.would like to try z brake though.
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Post by billyguitar on Sept 22, 2006 13:30:35 GMT -7
Z said the box alone costs him $55. That and high quality components add up to $300 retail. Seems fair to me. I don't think I've heard anyone directly a/b the Z with any other. I like the sound of the THD a lot but the 4db clicks are too broad. I'd like to hear a Weber.
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Post by John on Sept 22, 2006 13:43:57 GMT -7
The box alone costs $55? Nahhh...sombody's makin' too much money. Or has too inefficient a construction process. From a manufacturing standpoint, it doesn't cost $55 to make an empty box. I understand economies of scale, and how smaller production output has higher fixed costs per unit...but $55? Somebody's not looking hard enough for a supplier.
Wonder if that includes painting and lettering. Either way, it's a hunk of bent metal. (or stamped)
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Post by billyguitar on Sept 22, 2006 19:51:16 GMT -7
That is what Z said. I'm sure he meant painted and lettered. He doesn't make the box, someone makes them for him. $15 for materials? An hour of labor to fab paint and letter @ at least $25/hour for labor, benefits, taxes and insurance. Overhead, profit and shipping. $55 is a fair price
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Post by specialrider on Sept 22, 2006 21:45:54 GMT -7
I've had a THD, it was o.k. But I just LIKE the air break it's transparent
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Post by John on Sept 23, 2006 5:15:17 GMT -7
I just realized I'll have to crank up the new attenuator with my Marshall TSL 601.
Because of the Route 66, this Marshall amp was going on Ebay. Way too compressed. Too much circuitry. But hey, now that I've found out part of the compression problem was the Powerbrake, I have high hopes.
I may like it, but it will probably still go on Ebay. It's for sale locally, so if someone gives my asking price, I'll let it go.
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Post by Telemanic on Sept 24, 2006 12:12:19 GMT -7
When i first heard of the Airbrake, i to questioned the fact that it was resistive versus reactive. I always thought the reactive circuit would or should be superior, based on the description of the principals involved. But it's just another example pointing to the fact that there are always other factors involved. Ive owned a powerbrake, ......gone! Thd, ....better, ......but gone, and have a/b'd a muzzle and airbrake. Both very nice, and very subtle difference, but i chose the A-brake! Just seemed to really fuse with my 66! It's an indispensable part of my stage rig, and allows me to use a cleaner higher powered speaker, which i prefer, in a smaller club setting. I usually just need one or two clicks, and ya cant tell it's there!
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Post by Hohn on Sept 28, 2006 12:58:21 GMT -7
The only attenuator I've ever used it my Hot Plate. The high and low switches seem to help a lot with filling in the bottom and top.
I like the Plate, since the only thing I can A/B it against is an unattenuated amp at lower volume. This really shows how nice an attenuator can be.
For example, with the FD2 pushing the unattenuated 'Ray, you get mostly front end push, not much tube action. With the amp cranked and attenuated, the harmonics and compression just come alive. Granted, to be bearable volume with the 'Ray cranked, you have to attenuate a ridiculous amount (like -32 or more), but I find that the affect on tone is minimal at -8db and I can run the volume a good bit higher (almost up to 10:00, LOL).
Sometimes I wish my 'Ray had a half-power switch, but I don't think it would really kill that much volume with the 'Blues in the open cab. Yes, it's way too loud for my needs, but someday I'll be able to turn it up halfway unattenuated and use that much level:)
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Post by billyguitar on Sept 28, 2006 13:41:03 GMT -7
Last Saturday night I played a 3 hour gig outside with my Ray and 2x10 cab. I did two songs with it on one click and then bypassed it. I was too loud but nobody said anything so I just partied on. Most of the time I use the low input and like the amp volume at 12:00, the cut almost off and the tone at about 9:30 to 10:00. Then i use the AB to pull down the volume to suit the room. For bluesy solos I boost a bit with a compressor or the King of Tone pedal.
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