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Post by StrangeC on Oct 19, 2006 18:06:37 GMT -7
The Z28 gets a huge variety of tones, but if I wanted my Z28 to be 'Fendery.' what speakers should I consider? Using a V30 now which was used with a Ghia, but looking to make the Z28 my 'Fender' and my 6545/Z Best my British amp. Suggestions for a 1x12 setup?
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Post by rcrecelius on Oct 20, 2006 11:47:11 GMT -7
I had a Tonker in mine for a while...not really an "american" voiced speaker but with that loud SOB in there it would compete with a Twin for volume! I think the Swamp Thang is similar loudness but more low/less mid than the Tonker. 121 Legend might also be a good en...though Ive not actually tried one.
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Post by Curt on Oct 20, 2006 12:29:03 GMT -7
LOL
the Tonker is the LOUDEST freakin' speaker I have ever heard !!!!!!!!!!
Hell, a Mini Z through a Tonker would do most bar gigs...and be too much !! LOL
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Post by rcrecelius on Oct 20, 2006 12:38:59 GMT -7
LOL the Tonker is the LOUDEST freakin' speaker I have ever heard !!!!!!!!!! Hell, a Mini Z through a Tonker would do most bar gigs...and be too much !! LOL Hmmm...the wheels are a turnin now A Mini in a custom12" combo cabw/Tonker...hmmm...
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Post by LeftyLang on Oct 20, 2006 21:38:28 GMT -7
I get great Fender tones from my Z28 using a Eminence Red White & Blues
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Post by JChance on Oct 24, 2006 14:28:01 GMT -7
All great suggestions above. Another suggestion- the Weber 12F150 is the classic, "default" American 12" speaker. Copy of the old Jensen C12N. It comes in several variations as well. Nice, tight, punchy bottom end. I had one in a '66 Deluxe Reverb I used to have. For a little more sparkle, and a speaker that would work really well with a Z-28 for Fender tones, get the 12F150T. It's a 12F150 with a "treble" cone for more air and shimmer. www.tedweber.comJ
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Post by kledbet on Oct 24, 2006 18:19:58 GMT -7
Try a Tone Tubby ceramic or for earlier breakup and a warmer sound the alnico. The newer tone tubbies have more treble. The redesigned the voice coils and even right out of the box sound great.
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Post by StrangeC on Oct 25, 2006 16:55:58 GMT -7
Ted Weber recommended a 12F150 so that's the way I'm leaning. What can I expect to be different form the V30? How will is sound with my 6545? Anyone know the efficiency rating on this one?
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Post by taswegian on Oct 25, 2006 19:12:08 GMT -7
LOL the Tonker is the LOUDEST freakin' speaker I have ever heard !!!!!!!!!! Hell, a Mini Z through a Tonker would do most bar gigs...and be too much !! LOL Do they make a 4 ohm version?
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Post by rcrecelius on Oct 26, 2006 7:01:31 GMT -7
LOL the Tonker is the LOUDEST freakin' speaker I have ever heard !!!!!!!!!! Hell, a Mini Z through a Tonker would do most bar gigs...and be too much !! LOL Do they make a 4 ohm version? I've never seen a 4ohm listed anywhere...special order maybe? Or just get that hidden 8ohm tap wired up on the mini and go wth 8.
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Post by Curt on Oct 26, 2006 7:46:24 GMT -7
I thought the Mini required a 8ohm load?
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Post by prowler on Oct 26, 2006 8:01:45 GMT -7
The Mini has a 4 ohm speaker & the tap is 4 ohms as well. However there is an unused 8 ohm tap inside that can be easily installed by a competent tech or do it yourself-er
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Post by stratdev on Oct 28, 2006 19:05:29 GMT -7
I get great Fender tones from my Z28 using a Eminence Red White & Blues I'll second that... I typically run my Z-28 AND Stangray through either a pair of RW&B's or a couple Texas Heats. To my ears, when I compared my old Jensen C12N's against a bunch of wannabees, the RW&B's were much closer than the Weber. The worst were the Jensen reissues...sounded metallic. Frankly, the RW&B's damn near nailed it.... the RW&B's actually have a tighter bottom I even run this cool Super Reverb head (?) I picked up into the same cabs. Hey Lefty...that SR head is working out great. Made a few mods (different two spring accutronics tank) and flipped it so the output end of the tank is away from the output transformer of the amp. Gigged it last night...wonderful
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Post by LeftyLang on Nov 9, 2006 21:54:23 GMT -7
I get great Fender tones from my Z28 using a Eminence Red White & Blues I'll second that... I typically run my Z-28 AND Stangray through either a pair of RW&B's or a couple Texas Heats. To my ears, when I compared my old Jensen C12N's against a bunch of wannabees, the RW&B's were much closer than the Weber. The worst were the Jensen reissues...sounded metallic. Frankly, the RW&B's damn near nailed it.... the RW&B's actually have a tighter bottom I even run this cool Super Reverb head (?) I picked up into the same cabs. Hey Lefty...that SR head is working out great. Made a few mods (different two spring accutronics tank) and flipped it so the output end of the tank is away from the output transformer of the amp. Gigged it last night...wonderful stratdev...I am glad you love the amp...it was one of the coolest amps I have owned. You are right about the red white & blues...great speakers!!
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Post by StrangeC on Nov 10, 2006 19:17:41 GMT -7
stratdev- what Webers did you compare to?
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Post by StrangeC on Nov 18, 2006 13:13:11 GMT -7
Changing from a V30 to a Weber 12F150 50w with light dope definately changed the character of the Z28 and acomplished what I wanted- Bringing out the Fender character.
Weber describes the speaker as, "Tweed tone with ceramic punch...warm smooth breakup, aggressive, punchy, loud." I'd say htis is accurate. The speaker has much clearer highs than the V30, but with No schrillness- Perfect as I thought the V30 was a tad dark with the Z28. The lows are there and solid, but they aren't as loud or pronounced as they are with the V30.
Someone suggested the Z28 bass might be too much for this Weber, but I disagree. Perhaps they had an alnico or a lower wattage version of the Weber, but I think the bass is solid. Personally, I don't think 6V6 amps put out an overwealming amount of bass (though the Doc does a great job with the Z28 vs. say an old Deluxe). I got the 50w version of the 12F150 so I could do some experimenting with my 6545 as well.
I've read good things on the Eminance Patriot for Fender tones but I've never tried nor heard one. They're cheaper than the Weber, though I was happy to buy from Ted Weber as he's always been helpful and supportive whenever I've e mailed him.
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Post by taswegian on Nov 18, 2006 18:30:56 GMT -7
I would have thought the Dr Z, 4-10 would be a good choice to "Fender" things up a little. Get that Bassman vibe going.
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Post by groovergeorge on Nov 20, 2006 23:44:18 GMT -7
I think the Bassman might be a little closer to a Route 66 if you played one of those through 4x10 alnico ribbed cone webers. The 66' has a lot of similarities with the old JTM 45. I can't say for certain but I think Jim Marshall based that amp around early Fender designs. The Bassman did have big bottle 6L6s where the JTM had those KT66 tubes and was run into two greenbacks but I think most of the layout,tranny as well as tube rectifier were very similar. Some of those sound bytes on the Dr Z home page for the 66' to my ears sound very Bassman like.
One thing that hasn't been brought up is "whay kind of Kender amp do you want to get closest to,Tweed,Brown or Blackface era? These 3 are regarded as Fender's classic designs and all 3 have very different qualities.
IMHO, I think the closest your going to get to early tweed and brown face Fender tone with a Z28 is by using a speaker that is made to the specifications of the amps that used the same speakers back then. If a deluxe is what your after then a Weber 25 watt ribbed cone (alnico) model is the way to go.
I've heard a lot of good things about the Eminence red,white and blues as well. Although not exactly old vintage design, it has supposed to have a lot of desirable qualities if youre looking for high wattage and high decibel rating. It will give me more clean headroom and not (fart out) like a 25 watt Jensen. In saying this, i'm not claiming that it is a better speaker more that it is suited to my needs.
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Post by StrangeC on Nov 22, 2006 11:29:35 GMT -7
I wasn't looking to duplicate any particular Fender amp, but rather just bring out the 'Fenderness' that I thought the Z28 was lacking with a V30. I agree the Z28 is probably going after the Brown era, though I have to profess not to be an expert in Tweed vs Brown vs Blackface- input appreciated.
I used fo have a '68 Deluxe Reverb- cool amp for sure, but lacked a bit of bottom. Wish I still had it from a collectors point of view, but from a playing perspective, I think my Z28 is more verstilile and fun.
I went with a ceramic vs alnico because I like the 'punch' of modern speakers. I figured the ceramic Weber woudl give a bit of vintage and a bit of modern punch. I also went with 50w vs 25w mostly so I could use it with other amps and I wanted to have a bit of margin over the 22w Z28. I figured it wouldn't hurt helping the bass stay tight too. The 12F150 Weber sounds great to my ears- I'd like to try a Red White and Blues someday though...
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Post by UnclePat on Nov 23, 2006 20:43:55 GMT -7
That was me in another thread, and I do have the 25 watt 12F150. The 50 probably would have served me better.
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Post by StrangeC on Nov 23, 2006 21:27:33 GMT -7
Pat- We've all heard the Zs often put out more than their rated watts- Perhaps your 22w Z28 was pushing your 25w Weber a bit hard?
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Post by groovergeorge on Nov 24, 2006 4:28:45 GMT -7
I think an alnico 25 watter in the Z-28 is probably going to sound a little dark and somewhat lo-fi and very tweedie. That could be good in some ways in that your decibel rating would be acceptable in a smaller venue. A ceramic 25 watter could definately be another option. they are definately brigher and punchier and could be a way to brighten up a darker flavoured amp. The breakup is going to come on early so so aren't going to have to push the amp as hard and could rely on the amp and not a whole lot of pedals for your bluesy overdrive tones. . I too deliberated whether to go that way or get a 50 watter for some cleaner headroom. I've already got a Eminence red-fang alnico which rates 35 that I'm using with my Ghia thats quite nice. Although not really an American sounding speaker and closer ot that Celestion blue tone i'm sure that would work ok with the Z-28 and give a little more headroom than the weber 25 watt p12 cone. For lots of lows and a big booming American tone I'm still going to get a red,white and blues though. The power rating is huge so it's going to be interesting how it performs but they are supposed to be the one to get for that big S.R.V sound.
The good thing is at under $70 they are not that an expensive option to try out and if they don't work i'll just keep it for when I get my KT45 eventually.
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Post by UnclePat on Nov 24, 2006 18:11:56 GMT -7
Rick, I never got that far with it. It was breaking up even in my little 15 watt Ampeg. I thought for years (ever since I put that speaker in, replacing a truly wretched stock unit) that it was the amp giving up the goods too early. It sounded nice, but still kept me from gigging with it....I could get close to where I wanted to be...but not close enough. On a whim I tried another Celestion Century neo in that amp after really growing to like it a lot in my Z-28 combo. It was the speaker after all! The neo turned that Jet II into a killer...all the lows I'd been missing, and even more highs. The Weber was good....just not "neo good".
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Post by StrangeC on Nov 24, 2006 20:52:23 GMT -7
Curious haw a Weber 12F150 differs form a Red White and Blues...
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Post by groovergeorge on Nov 25, 2006 1:49:31 GMT -7
I think the red,white and blues has more of a Vox chime to it. Just a little darker sounding. The Weber is based on a Jensen p12. More bell like tone in those and quite bright sounding with not a lot of bottom end. I'd also say that the red,white and blues would have slightly more midrange. Both speakers are a good choice for country-rock and blues but not anything too heavy where a greenback or V30 would favour. I actually debated getting a weber 12f150 to try with a Z-28 as it is very different the Eminence.
Good luck with your choice and let us know how you went.
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Post by StrangeC on Nov 25, 2006 17:34:05 GMT -7
Went to the Weber 12F150. Sounds Great! Not too bright at all in my opinion and plenty of bottom. Again, I went 50w and ceramic magnet so that tightens the bottom in my opinion.
I have tried a V30 and I have a Greenback I liked with my Ghia that I probably should get out and try with my Z28, but for the Z28 I was looking to bring the Fender flavor out of it. The V30 and GB both emphasized a more Marshally tone in my opinion. I like the V30/G12H30 combonation in the Z Best with my 6545.
From the descripotion of the R, W & B, the Weber was the right choice for creating a 'modern Deluxe.'
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Post by stratdev on Dec 2, 2006 11:23:14 GMT -7
Went to the Weber 12F150. Sounds Great! Not too bright at all in my opinion and plenty of bottom. Again, I went 50w and ceramic magnet so that tightens the bottom in my opinion. I have tried a V30 and I have a Greenback I liked with my Ghia that I probably should get out and try with my Z28, but for the Z28 I was looking to bring the Fender flavor out of it. The V30 and GB both emphasized a more Marshally tone in my opinion. I like the V30/G12H30 combonation in the Z Best with my 6545. From the descripotion of the R, W & B, the Weber was the right choice for creating a 'modern Deluxe.' OK...here comes the dissenting opinion. Having been raised on a '64 DR and a '66 Pro Reverb (for bigger gigs) I gotta go with the RW&B. I'm a Fender blackface freak and have, after exhaustive comparisons to my old C12N's, found the RW&B's to be the closest. The absolute worst were those clangin' Jensen C12N reissues. Nasty... and not in a good way! The problem I had specifically with the Weber 50 watt 12F150's was the looseness of the Weber's low end (compared to the RW&B). Might be cool for Tweed (although I'd go alnico Webers for that...), but for a snappy, very in yer face blackface sound, thr RW&B's are hard to beat. I have a soft spot for the old DR's. And the only amp I've ever heard approach that great cranked vibe for small/medium rooms is a Z-28. The DR was my benchmark for any amp I use live...but the Z-28/RW&B offers up some distinct advantages (for me). It can nail the blackface vibe. But that EF86 front end, the Z-28 is a thing of beauty with pedals. Cranked with a "smidgeon" of Analog Man King of Tone OD (just a hair set slightly above unity gain) turns the Z-28 into the most responsive DR-like amp I've ever had the pleasure to play. The bottom line is the ability of the Z-28 to rock with a wide variety of speakers. I do a lot of Albert Collins stuff and really appreciate the nice tight bottom when pulling the strings and letting them snap back. A loose bottom just wrecks that sound. At some point at least try a RW&B because without the actual comparison done by YOU, this is all approaching the drift of the old, oft-quoted Zappa line, "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." Oh yeah...another hip Jensen-like replacement is the Emi Legend 125-8. Again, to my ears, a tighter bottom than the 12F150's. Have fun... speaker tweaks is one of my favorite ways to pass some time. Then again, I'm easily amused.
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Post by StrangeC on Dec 2, 2006 18:59:04 GMT -7
stratdev, you bastard!
;-) LOL Now I'm just gonna have to try a RW&B!
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Post by StrangeC on Dec 10, 2006 21:21:05 GMT -7
Ok... got a R, W , & Blues. Definately bigger bass and a bit more mid-rangey. Darker and less highs than the Weber 12F150. Can't say yet which I like better. The RWB might be a bit too dark, but is does take advantage of the Z28s bass. The Weber to me has nicer highs and smoother, more vintage tone. In my experience the original Deluxes didn't have the big bass the Z does. In any case both are very nice speakers!
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