Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2010 8:28:30 GMT -7
A couple of folks have posted about it here drzamplifiers.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=monza&thread=30552&page=1#358504 (scroll down to near the bottom), but I thought it deserved its own thread. I love the amp (and my grill cloth dent has almost entirely disappeared), and I think it's a definite keeper, but with the attenuation on and the drive cranked up, there is this weird, fizzy, octave-up harmonic/overtone thing on sustained notes that can get pretty annoying; it's not quite the bumblebee sound you get from some fuzz pedals, but it's related. So I'm wondering whether other Monza users are hearing it, and what, if anything, can be done about it.
|
|
|
Post by DRZ on Apr 19, 2010 13:15:39 GMT -7
First try a different speaker. Plug the amp and the BL into a separate cab and see if it's speaker adding the artifact.
If not try swapping the EL-84's with a good pair or the set from your JR.
If it's the Speaker or Tubes contact repairs@drzamps.com and will fix you up.
Z
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2010 14:16:10 GMT -7
Thanks, Doc. Will do.
|
|
|
Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Apr 19, 2010 15:58:15 GMT -7
I haven't tried the Monza with my Airbrake or Brakelite yet... I'm just diggin' the amp at full volume I'll give mine a whirl with an attenuator when I get a chance and see what mine sounds like.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2010 16:37:26 GMT -7
Doc's definitely on to something: plugged it into my Z-cab and at least at very low volume w/ the tubes relatively cold, I'm not hearing it. Will take another listen tomorrow when I'm alone in the house. In the meantime, I'll take the old phillips-head to the speaker mounting screws and make sure they're good n' tight.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2010 16:38:50 GMT -7
Got to say, I like the thump I get from the V-30 in my Z-cab. Hmmmm....
|
|
|
Post by rbhuckleberry on Apr 19, 2010 20:12:58 GMT -7
Low volume alone isn't the culprit. I am hearing it with the Air Brake on the Bedroom setting and at Maximum attenuation. Sans Air Brake, or with some tweaking, it goes away.
And I personally only hear it on the low E or soloing high up on the fretboard with a neck humbucker.
I just think the amp needs to breathe a bit. Doesn't like to be reeled in. ;D
|
|
|
Post by jbriggs13 on Apr 19, 2010 21:19:24 GMT -7
I hear the same fizz with my ghia when I have the brake-lite cranked all the way up. Like rbhuckleberry said though, I think these amazing amps just need to breathe a little bit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2010 9:07:50 GMT -7
Okay, so it was somewhat reduced through the Z-cab, but still there. What gets rid of most of it is rolling off the volume on the amp and turning off the BL; it seems more a product of cranked volume than cranked drive, if that makes any sense. Haven't tried tubes yet, but did have an odd moment where the amp suddenly went to about 1/8 power--switched cables and it was fine. So, bad cable, I guess--I use DiMarzios and it's the first time I've ever had one fail. Will stick a new pair of JJ EL84s in it in a bit, as soon as the stock tubes cool off. It's a weird sound--it has a kind of swirling quality, almost like fuzz/octave/trem set real slow, if you can imagine that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2010 9:16:00 GMT -7
I'm beginning to think it could be the case that this amp is demonically possessed--if so, I'm definitely keeping it!
|
|
|
Post by hitoverdrive on Apr 20, 2010 14:22:35 GMT -7
Okay, so it was somewhat reduced through the Z-cab, but still there. What gets rid of most of it is rolling off the volume on the amp and turning off the BL; it seems more a product of cranked volume than cranked drive, if that makes any sense. Haven't tried tubes yet, but did have an odd moment where the amp suddenly went to about 1/8 power--switched cables and it was fine. So, bad cable, I guess--I use DiMarzios and it's the first time I've ever had one fail. Will stick a new pair of JJ EL84s in it in a bit, as soon as the stock tubes cool off. It's a weird sound--it has a kind of swirling quality, almost like fuzz/octave/trem set real slow, if you can imagine that. Yes. It happens on mine attenuated but it is brief and it makes a fizz sound as if it is saying Zzzzzz! You think the Doc built that into the amp to put a subliminal Z message on his amp...?LOL Its a weird occurrence and I agree it happens more its attenuated. I hear it more when digging into notes and sustaining them for a moment.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2010 7:59:47 GMT -7
So, after further fiddling it sure looks like that top end fizz I'm hearing is a product of the amp, and not a tube thing or a speaker thing. It still occurs when I run the Monza through my 112 convertible cab, and it still occurs when I switch out the power tubes. As others have noted, it's MUCH more present when the attenuation's cranked past 2, and particularly when the volume is also past 12:00. So I'm reminded of the old vaudeville sketch where the guy's in the doctor's office. He lifts his arm above his head and says, "Doc, it hurts when I do this." The doctor says, "So don't do that." Basically I get plenty of attenuation at 1 or 2 on the BL, and I LOVE the tone of the Monza when the drive and volume are both around 11:00. At those settings, I'm not hearing that wacky, swirling top-end zing, and the amp sounds freakin' amazing. So, long story short, I'm a happy guy. For future iterations of the Monza, though, this odd little sonic artifact might be worth looking into. And if the Doc ever comes up with an anti-fizz mod, I want to be first in line to get it. Or 69th, at least.
|
|
|
Post by starrman on Apr 22, 2010 8:53:24 GMT -7
Yea, me too...I usually have the attenuator on 2 ...it seems to help it out a little. Mind you, I use mine for studio work mainly ! Still love it !
|
|
|
Post by Pete aka shouldb on Apr 23, 2010 10:58:05 GMT -7
So, after further fiddling it sure looks like that top end fizz I'm hearing is a product of the amp, and not a tube thing or a speaker thing. It still occurs when I run the Monza through my 112 convertible cab, and it still occurs when I switch out the power tubes. As others have noted, it's MUCH more present when the attenuation's cranked past 2, and particularly when the volume is also past 12:00. So I'm reminded of the old vaudeville sketch where the guy's in the doctor's office. He lifts his arm above his head and says, "Doc, it hurts when I do this." The doctor says, "So don't do that." Basically I get plenty of attenuation at 1 or 2 on the BL, and I LOVE the tone of the Monza when the drive and volume are both around 11:00. At those settings, I'm not hearing that wacky, swirling top-end zing, and the amp sounds freakin' amazing. So, long story short, I'm a happy guy. For future iterations of the Monza, though, this odd little sonic artifact might be worth looking into. And if the Doc ever comes up with an anti-fizz mod, I want to be first in line to get it. Or 69th, at least. Didn't you say something about a "female personality" on another thread, hmm? Maybe your "girl" just wants you to pay her close attention for her to give you back her very best tone??? Pete ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2010 13:07:15 GMT -7
I was thinking the same thing, exactly.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2010 14:57:50 GMT -7
Okay, on Brent's advice I've tried replacing the pre-amp tubes in order to address/minimize this annoying fizzy overtone issue, and it seems to have helped a good bit. I'm currently using a Mesa-branded Sovtek in V1 that I'd pulled out of my Lonestar Special some months ago, and a JJ in V2; basically the same configuration that it originally came with. Tried JJs in both V1 and V2, but that seemed to actually make the fizztone a bit worse. What quality in a preamp tube would cause/aggravate this situation, I wonder? I looked at the "Tubes" thread in the Monza section to see if folks were having good luck with other brands/types--what would be the perfect V1 tube for this amp?
|
|
|
Post by hitoverdrive on May 19, 2010 15:05:36 GMT -7
Okay, on Brent's advice I've tried replacing the pre-amp tubes in order to address/minimize this annoying fizzy overtone issue, and it seems to have helped a good bit. I'm currently using a Mesa-branded Sovtek in V1 that I'd pulled out of my Lonestar Special some months ago, and a JJ in V2; basically the same configuration that it originally came with. Tried JJs in both V1 and V2, but that seemed to actually make the fizztone a bit worse. What quality in a preamp tube would cause/aggravate this situation, I wonder? I looked at the "Tubes" thread in the Monza section to see if folks were having good luck with other brands/types--what would be the perfect V1 tube for this amp? Are you getting the fizzy overtones without attenuation, the amp by itself or only with attenuation?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 6:45:59 GMT -7
My Monza seems to have a mind of her own, and would produce a pronounced fizzy overtone on pretty much any/all settings of volume, drive, tone and brakelight. It was more evident with the BL on 3 or 4, more evident yet with humbuckers or any kind of boost pedal. It did not become noticeable until the tubes were good and hot. The new preamp tubes seem to have almost entirely eliminated it even with the BL cranked--I'll have more time to play with it later today, and will report back in a bit more detail. I'll also write back to Brent and ask for some advice on replacement preamp tubes for the future.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2010 13:18:33 GMT -7
Okay, another update: unfortunately the preamp tubes did not eliminate the metallic, fizzy/zingy overtone I was hearing as much as I'd hoped, so I ended up corresponding with Don the Repair Guy at Dr Z. Super nice guy, had me try a bunch of stuff to see if it alleviated the problem. What it came down to finally was switching out the stock 5AR4 rectifier tube for a JJ GZ34 I (weirdly) happened to have lying around. After an hour or so of concentrated noodling on a variety of amp and BL settings, I can say with reasonable confidence that this seems to have pretty much eliminated that weird octave-up harmonic from about 98% of the neck--there's just a couple of notes that do it now, at least with single coils, as opposed to pretty much every note. I can live with that. Now the trick will be to keep tweaking preamp tubes until I find a good match--Don suggested TungSols so I'll probably give those a try. So, if you're one of the forumites who've been struggling a bit with that weird upper harmonic, you might try switching out the rectifier tube. Just be sure you get it in the right way, as Don reminded me.
|
|
|
Post by hitoverdrive on Jun 3, 2010 14:07:14 GMT -7
Way to keep at it and thanks for letting us know. I'll check that rectifier change too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2010 10:15:57 GMT -7
Cool--and thank you for chiming in. I'm glad it's not just me that's hearing this.
|
|
|
Post by rbhuckleberry on Jun 6, 2010 11:28:34 GMT -7
My issue seems to have been eliminated by being in a "playing" situation. With the Air Brake on a setting other than "Bedroom", teh Monza opens up in a pretty incredible way.
|
|
|
Post by pcns on Jun 6, 2010 19:05:43 GMT -7
you know, my wife has high jacked my Monza to play her bass through from time to time she has commented on how the amp gets "fuzzier" the longer she plays through it. Today I was playing with a new cable and noticed the noize described above. I'm going to change my rectifier tube tomorrow and see how it goes. Would be good news if that is what it is. Good thread guys, I appreciate the posts, thanks! Todd
|
|
|
Post by hitoverdrive on Jun 18, 2010 20:41:21 GMT -7
Cool--and thank you for chiming in. I'm glad it's not just me that's hearing this. Well I've done some rectifier changes but still get the Zing/fizz we've been talking about. Not only that my Marshall is having its own issues as of today. Lucky me. Fortunately my Night Train is going strong. When I can muster up some coin for the trip to Z amps I'll have it looked at. The Zing/fizz comes on more when my volume is half way up and more. It offends the lovely tone this amp puts out and I'll need to have that Zing/fizz gone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2010 6:40:59 GMT -7
Sorry to hear that. It does seem to be sensitive to higher volume settings. Also, some overdrives/boosts seem to generate it on the Monza, even with the GZ34 rectifier. Worth noting, maybe, that I was able to reproduce it on my MAZ 18 NR with a cranked OCD; exact same overtone. So I'm thinking it's really just a funky gain artifact--basically similar to the octave up or ring-mod-y tones you can get from germanium fuzzes. Control the gain and you'll control the artifact, although in this amp you might not entirely eliminate it. That's okay with me; you wouldn't want to completely neuter this bad-arse little beast.
|
|
|
Post by hitoverdrive on Jun 19, 2010 8:21:41 GMT -7
Sorry to hear that. It does seem to be sensitive to higher volume settings. Also, some overdrives/boosts seem to generate it on the Monza, even with the GZ34 rectifier. Worth noting, maybe, that I was able to reproduce it on my MAZ 18 NR with a cranked OCD; exact same overtone. So I'm thinking it's really just a funky gain artifact--basically similar to the octave up or ring-mod-y tones you can get from germanium fuzzes. Control the gain and you'll control the artifact, although in this amp you might not entirely eliminate it. That's okay with me; you wouldn't want to completely neuter this bad-arse little beast. Yeah at times I tell myself forget about it and ignore it. Its almost like a vibrational fizz or overtone as it comes on when I sustain a power chord or note. If I continue playing I can keep it at bay unless I sustain chords or notes. Really is weird. I've done tube changes, cab changes, guitar changes etc...and like I said its more prevalent from Noon up on the volume. If I keep volume about 10am and hit it with a boost its just barely noticeable. Seems like when its gets more into its power section is when it really occurs. I keep my drive at about 1pm mostly. I do think it is something that would be problematic if recording or the very least annoying playing live. I'm thinking its something that can be eliminated though so I will pursue that when I can. I can't afford shipping right now anyways so I have to live with it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2010 13:46:43 GMT -7
You should email Don the repair guy. He made a lot of recommendations for me--the one that seemed to work best (softening the gain a bit while still retaining the amp's nasty character) for me was the rectifier switch, but he suggested other stuff, too--particularly switching out the V1 preamp tube for something a bit lower gain than the stock JJ. I tried TungSols and EHs and ultimately didn't like them that much, but they might work for you. What kind of guitar are you using? Are you running a Brakelite with your Monza? Is it a 110, 112 or head?
|
|
|
Post by hitoverdrive on Jun 20, 2010 14:15:30 GMT -7
You should email Don the repair guy. He made a lot of recommendations for me--the one that seemed to work best (softening the gain a bit while still retaining the amp's nasty character) for me was the rectifier switch, but he suggested other stuff, too--particularly switching out the V1 preamp tube for something a bit lower gain than the stock JJ. I tried TungSols and EHs and ultimately didn't like them that much, but they might work for you. What kind of guitar are you using? Are you running a Brakelite with your Monza? Is it a 110, 112 or head? I don't attenuate it anymore. I hated what the Airbrake did to it. I've got the head version. I have 2 112's, a Veteran 30 in one and a K100 in the other. Then I have a 412 with Greenbacks in it. So it has exhibited the sound through all of them. Plus I have my other amps with same guitar and healthy amounts of gain going through these cabs too with no fizz/zing happening. I've used a strat with HSS conf and a EC1000 with Actives. I don't like the EMG's though and will be putting passives in it. Right now I have an NOS rectifier. I did get the JJ rectifier but the sound was still there. In fact with all 3 rectifiers the sound is still there. I have a Telefunken in V1 and a Magnavox(Japanese)in the PI. They aren't high gain really. Just dynamic. I have some lower gain tubes though and may try them just to see how they effect the sound. I have a whole drawer full of NOS and quite a few CP(current production)tubes. I'll roll a few and see. Also I'll email Don and see what he says. Thanks for the suggestions though. This all helps trouble shoot the problem.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2010 18:05:35 GMT -7
In terms of guitars, I play mostly single coils, though I like my Reverend w/ P90s through the Monza. I find that I like the tone of the Monza better if I roll off the tone a bit on my Strat, especially the bridge pickup. They're Lollar Dirty Blondes, not the stock CS 50's pickups, so a bit hotter than stock. Haven't tried the LP through it in awhile, but would likely do the same thing, more to round off the tone a bit than to suppress the gain. i also keep the Monza's tone at aboht 9:00, otherwise it's just too bright for home noodling. I'm experimenting with using an RC Booster too round off the top end--liking it so far.
|
|
|
Post by hitoverdrive on Jun 21, 2010 16:08:03 GMT -7
In terms of guitars, I play mostly single coils, though I like my Reverend w/ P90s through the Monza. I find that I like the tone of the Monza better if I roll off the tone a bit on my Strat, especially the bridge pickup. They're Lollar Dirty Blondes, not the stock CS 50's pickups, so a bit hotter than stock. Haven't tried the LP through it in awhile, but would likely do the same thing, more to round off the tone a bit than to suppress the gain. i also keep the Monza's tone at aboht 9:00, otherwise it's just too bright for home noodling. I'm experimenting with using an RC Booster too round off the top end--liking it so far. Yeah that's a good idea with roll'n back just abit. I do that too at times. Where are you running the volume and drive at and what kind of music? I just tried a new setting on the amp that I haven't tried yet. I'm using the Strat HSS going through the 412 with GB's. I set the volume right around 2:45 not quite 3pm. The drive at 11am and tone around noon. Usually I have the drive at 1 or 2 pm and the volume anywhere from 10am to 12:30pm. I don't ever go that high on the volume with the drive high like 2pm and more. I'm going straight in no boosts although the amp does very well with them. Doing it like this helps a little with that fizz/zing although its there. I was playing stuff like Badlands, ZZ, Nugent, UFO even some GNR. Set like this reminds me a bit of a cranked Vintage Marshall but not quite the same mid character. I'm really liking this setting for that raunchy hot rodded blues/rock tones. The other thing that is nice about this setting is guitar roll off to a cleaner sound works better with volume high and drive down. Lots of in between sounds as you roll the guitar off. Really balzy sounding with the power section cranked up going into a 412 of greenies, no attenuation!
|
|