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Post by denverdave on Aug 15, 2006 10:19:55 GMT -7
Where do you normally get breakup on your Z28 volume wise?? I was running the volume at about 10 o'clock, bass at noon, and treble at 2 o'clock and was getting very noticable breakup in the tone - especially when chording. I'm playing a Robin Ranger with a S/C Tele pickup in the bridge and a Strat pickup in the middle position. Rolling back the guitar volume did not clean up the breakup much. Is there a secret to getting more clean headroom that I am missing here? I really need some clean volume and I couldn't find it yesterday (first day with the amp BTW). I tried several guitars with similar results....
Dave
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Post by rcrecelius on Aug 15, 2006 10:32:34 GMT -7
Dave, I'll admit, I was a little worried when you originally posted that you were getting a 28 for a clean amp...not to say that clean tones cant be found, just that as a general rule, they are going to be found at lower volume settings. Now...about those tone controls... To get the most clean headroom, keep the bass and treble below 12 oclock...beyond that and they start adding gain. Try setting your volume at 3 oclock or more and the bass/treble down around 9-10 oclock.
Me personally, I use an RC Booster on all the time with a considerable amount of boost and all controls 1 oclock and beyond...turning the guitars volume all the way up yields a nice overdriven sound...turning it down gives me varying shades of clean/semi clean tones...all this with a tele. I like a little hair on my clean sound so this may not work for you. Click on the putfile link in my signature to hear several different songs with this setup.
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Post by Telemanic on Aug 15, 2006 14:44:11 GMT -7
Denverdave, its always tough talking about clean or gain, because everyone has a little different idea of what each is, unless we use very familiar comparisons, ie big fender, or marshall jcm800, vox, etc. Ya know one guys clean is another guys grit and visa versa. If your tryin to get twin reverb or JC120 clean with volume, your gonna have some disappointment in my opinion. It just isnt the way this amp was conceived. But assuming that i just stated the obvious, and your expectations of the 28's clean abilities are closer to its design goals, (and BTW, a lot of guy's around here do country with this amp and a Tele, with great results ) You can probably tweak a "little" more clean out of it.
I agree with Rc and would remind you of what you probably already know, ..that the tone controls on the docs EF86 amps are also gain controls for their respective freq's. above about 12:00. So with the treble at 2:00 your starting well into getting some hair on the highs. I as well would say try noon or even 11:00 on both treble and bass, maybe even less on the bass. Keep the amp volume at no more than about 11:00 or your simply just gonna start pushin the 6v6's. I think thats about all she's got clean wise for ya.
I think after all that if your close, but not quite there, there may be a couple of real subtle improvements you could try. Very subtle, but i noticed better headroom with some NOS 6v6's ( Brimar gty's, or RCA, GEC, GE ) It seems often, but not always, the nos tubes hang on a little longer before clipping. I would also try some different ef's, some are brighter and a little thinner than others and may allow you to keep the treble control where you need it, but still have some apparent highs. And maybe a tighter rectifier,...... a little ambiguous i know, but i find a minute difference there. If tho you feel your not even close in the first place, but really like the ef86 front end sound, you might consider a Kt45, + or - airbrake, rig. A lot more clean headroom there! Best of luck !!
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Post by denverdave on Aug 15, 2006 19:30:40 GMT -7
Thanks for the words of wisdom. I dialed the treble and bass down and got a cleaner signal - not quite what I am looking for but much closer. I'm thinking this will get me what I needing. I may just need to get a real Tele. The Tele pickup in the Robin is hotter than the standard Tele pup - or maybe replace the Tele pup in the robin with a more standard output pup. I'll have to see. But the advice definitely helped....thanks....
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Post by billyguitar on Aug 16, 2006 5:29:05 GMT -7
Lower the pickup a bit?
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Post by jwr on Aug 16, 2006 7:56:45 GMT -7
If you bought the amp used it could be time for a change of tubes. If it's new then check to see what tube is in the Phase Inverter position. That tube is the corner stone for tone shaping with the Z-28. Mine came with a 5751 and I love the sound but you could try a 12au7 or a 12ay7 as a Phase Inverter, they will lower the gain. You could go to the ASK THE EXPERTS area of the forum and ask Myles Rose for some advice, he's a great guy and a tube expert. Also you might try a more efficient speaker/s. Don't give up on this amp, it's a great piece of gear. Jason
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Post by arniez on Aug 16, 2006 9:34:48 GMT -7
If you happen to have a 12ax7 in the phase inverter that will decrease your clean headroom. ArnieZ
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Post by denverdave on Aug 16, 2006 9:51:38 GMT -7
I'll check out the tubes tonight. I think part of this is just getting used to the amp. I was liking what I was hearing last night. I know this amp will work for what I am playing, and when I am doing more aggressive stuff I really loved the natural breakup.
The problem is probably that I at last have a great guitar and a great amp, and now the player's (me) ability needs to improve to be worthy of the equipment. ;D
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Post by UnclePat on Aug 17, 2006 5:54:39 GMT -7
I think that's happened to a lot of us here! ;D
Been pretty happy with the headroom on my '28 so far. The NOS 5751 that's in there right now keeps it fairly clean even running pretty loud. The volume knob on the guitar and pick attack make up the rest of the equation.
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Post by denverdave on Aug 17, 2006 21:51:07 GMT -7
OK - finally got the tone dialed in tonight. Actually, I was reviewing some Z28 talk on the site here, and I saw a post where Miles had taken a picture of Brad Paisley's live setup from last October. Brad was using a Z28 head for his clean tone, and Miles had a great straight on shot of the head - and I saw the setup Brad was using on the dials. Volume was dimed - bass at about 12 o'clock, Treble at about 9 o'clock. I got home and plugged in my knockoff Frankentele, dialed in the settings - and there it was! Not quite Super Reverb clean, but it's a great tone. I would have thought the treble at about three would yield nothing but mud - but nope - plenty of top end sparkle even there! Now I know Brad runs all kinds of boxes and processing in from of the amp, but that got me where I wanted to go - minus the dimed volume. All I used in front for rehersal tonight was my Fulltone Fulldrive 2 (10th Anniversary) and I was there. I'm probably going to add a compressor somewhere down the line, but I'm getting happier with this amp as the days go by - my initial cautions are fading fast. This is just a lot of amp!
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Post by texasjim on Aug 18, 2006 6:42:54 GMT -7
Dave: I got my new, used Z-28 2-10 this week, and am going thru the same learning curve on the tone and volume knobs! It's amazing how the tone controls affect the gain, and what happens to the over all sound level. I don't usually use any pedals, but once I get the amp setings dialed in, I may use some overdrive and distortion. Time will tell.
Since the amp doesn't have tremolo, I bought a Danelectro Tuna Melt, and put it just before the input, and it gives an acceptable trem for the few songs we do that require it .
Overall, I'm VERY impressed with the sounds from my Z-28, and I'm sure it'll only get better, as I learn how to set the knobs.
Good Luck!
Texas Jim
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