|
Post by taswegian on Jun 22, 2006 0:32:25 GMT -7
Well, I gigged the Z28 and Zbest with my trio last night and it was a bit of an eye opener. I'd been looking forward to the gig as I was thinking of running the Z28 and Route 66 in Stereo I tried it out at rehearsal with the 28 through the Zbest and the 66 through the Z4-10 cab. Sounded so lush clean. We played "Walking On The Moon" and I was in stereo heaven. But I couldn't get a dirt sound I was happy with running the amps clean and I thought with both of them wound up it may have been OVERKILL in a small club. (understatement) So for the gig I took both heads and the Zbest. Set up the Z28 at my favourite setting....Volume 1:00 Treble 1:00 Bass 3:00 and connected the airbrake just in case. Within two bars of the first song the airbrake was off. It was really interesting hearing the amp in this context as I am so used to hearing the 66. It responds much the same as the 66 to touch and roll back and sounded really sweet. Definately didn't have the girth that the 66 has but some of the rolled back cleans are just so..sweeeet! Gotta love those big bottles though! By the end of the set I had all knobs on 3:00 unattenuated and I was starting to miss the body of the 66. Yes we are a loud band. That small difference in wattage makes a huge difference. I could never run the Route 66 in that club at 3:00. It was rockin' though! For the second set I set up the 66 and ran it at about 12:00 all knobs. It's such a big sounding amp. I have to disagree with Tele62's statement that the 28 is second to none for classic rock tones at 3:00. I still think the 66 has that mantle at anything around 12:00 and above. It's just so thick and Brown! We covered "Black Dog" in our last set with the 66 and I was thinking, "ah yes, that's more like it" The nice thing about the Z28 relative to my gig is that you can crank it up a bit in a smaller club and get some breakup where the 66 would still be clean. But to be fair to it, I'm trying to make it a lowered powered Route 66 which of course it isn't. It's definitely it's own thing and its very nice. All of this is also relative to the Zbest. Speakers make such a huge difference. I almost prefer the Z28 through the Zbest than the 66 through the 4-10. But the tones I chase are very classic British rock and I don't think 10's are suited to that sound. All in all it was heaps of fun comparing and I'd be quite happy playing the Z28 and Z- Best for ever, and in smaller clubs I think it would suit my needs better. BUT, the Route 66 is definitely the sound I was chasing for years. It is my dream amp. ROCK ON! ;D
|
|
|
Post by rcrecelius on Jun 22, 2006 7:50:41 GMT -7
Thanks for that "real world" comparison...were you using any boost/od pedals or just straight in?
|
|
|
Post by LeftyLang on Jun 22, 2006 7:52:21 GMT -7
I love the R66 as well...it is my new #1 go to amp now..........but the Z28 & Ghia run in stereo for smaller gigs is tone city!!
|
|
|
Post by taswegian on Jun 22, 2006 8:34:05 GMT -7
Thanks for that "real world" comparison...were you using any boost/od pedals or just straight in? Just "straight in" with a fatboost pedal for leads. I also use a deja-vibe and wha in spots. I didn't imagine I'd get the 28 to that level at that gig but there you go. We are very dynamic which is why I love the Z amps, for their touch sensitivity. We often go from raunching loud to speaking volume quiet in the same song. We love our light and shade and these amps do it so well whether rolling back the volume or just playing with a soft right hand. Then dig in and back comes the dirt! So responsive and musical. A thing of beauty!
|
|
|
Post by rcrecelius on Jun 22, 2006 8:42:52 GMT -7
Thanks for that "real world" comparison...were you using any boost/od pedals or just straight in? these amps do it so well whether rolling back the volume or just playing with a soft right hand. Then dig in and back comes the dirt! So responsive and musical. A thing of beauty! Amen on that!...and BtW Leftylang...you can accomplish the same thing by picking softer with your LEFT hand
|
|
|
Post by taswegian on Jun 22, 2006 8:43:49 GMT -7
I love the R66 as well...it is my new #1 go to amp now..........but the Z28 & Ghia run in stereo for smaller gigs is tone city!! I'll bet!!! If I ever do a Police tribute band that I've been asked to do so many times, I think 2 Z28's in stereo would be my rig of choice. In stereo with the 66 it was BIG. I probably could have done it in hindsight but I might have stepped into the Bass players frequency zone and sucked some of his tone out from under him. In turn he might have added more bottom end and volume to compensate and then all kinds o bad things start happening. We only run kick and vocals through the PA. A Dr Z guitar rig, Ampeg bass rig, and Brady drum kit sound very nice coming off stage on their own. Everyone there said the mix was great and we never got too loud. What a difference from my brothers cover band where I played the Z28 at 11:00 all knobs!
|
|
|
Post by taswegian on Jun 22, 2006 8:45:21 GMT -7
these amps do it so well whether rolling back the volume or just playing with a soft right hand. Then dig in and back comes the dirt! So responsive and musical. A thing of beauty! Amen on that!...and BtW Leftylang...you can accomplish the same thing by picking softer with your LEFT hand Ahh yes, how discriminatory of me Sorry Lefty
|
|
|
Post by jb on Jun 22, 2006 10:07:17 GMT -7
Hey Tas, Lefty or anyone else. I feel the same way about my 66, great tone and thick sound. I am looking for another Z to add that would complement the tone of the 66. Played a Ghia lately and was really impressed by the sound but was out of town and could not A/B with the 66. Is the sound significantly differenct, and would the Ghia be a good choice? I see that Lefty has them both? I would like an 18 watter mostly for home use and recording and am trying to decide between a Ghia and a Maz Jr. Thanks for your thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by taswegian on Jun 23, 2006 16:53:08 GMT -7
Unfortunately, I have no experience with the Ghia, but I'm sure any other Z would be complimentary. The Z 28 is a beautiful amp and compliments the 66 very well. If you replaced the 5751 with a 12ax7 matched PI I'm sure it would break up at less volume if that is what you are after with the 18 watters. The ghia being an el-84 amp I'm sure sounds quite different and that may be more the tone you are after, I don't know. I would love to hear one!
|
|
|
Post by LeftyLang on Jun 24, 2006 12:55:59 GMT -7
Hey Tas, Lefty or anyone else. I feel the same way about my 66, great tone and thick sound. I am looking for another Z to add that would complement the tone of the 66. Played a Ghia lately and was really impressed by the sound but was out of town and could not A/B with the 66. Is the sound significantly differenct, and would the Ghia be a good choice? I see that Lefty has them both? I would like an 18 watter mostly for home use and recording and am trying to decide between a Ghia and a Maz Jr. Thanks for your thoughts. Yes the CG is a great amp for recording...and totally different from the 66. Check out this clip. www.prosoundcommunications.com/english/video/dean_parks/equipment.html
|
|
|
Post by billyguitar on Jun 24, 2006 14:02:16 GMT -7
The CG is great for recording clean too. Very sweet tone.
|
|
yup
New Member
Posts: 32
|
Post by yup on Jul 11, 2006 9:36:14 GMT -7
Taz,
Would you say that, generally speaking, the 66 has more clean headroom than the 28? My 28 sounds great, it simply breaks up to early. I am aware of the impact the tone controls have on gain, however, when running said controls below 12 o'clock the strat is rather thin.
Any suggestions? I'm really considering adding a 66.
Thanks, Yup.
|
|
|
Post by taswegian on Jul 11, 2006 19:19:08 GMT -7
Taz, Would you say that, generally speaking, the 66 has more clean headroom than the 28? My 28 sounds great, it simply breaks up to early. I am aware of the impact the tone controls have on gain, however, when running said controls below 12 o'clock the strat is rather thin. Any suggestions? I'm really considering adding a 66. Thanks, Yup. Do you have the 5751 in the PI position or a 12ax7? Presuming you have the 5751, I've heard a few other people say similar things in regards to having the volume below 12:00 and I would say that was more of a reflection of the cabs. I know Tele62 didn't like his Z28 at quieter volumes and he would have run his through his 1-12. I would think a 1-12 might sound a little thin below 12:00 but it's still nice and juicy with Zbest. As far as headroom, I imagine you mean to compare them in volume. When I gigged with both, I had the Z28 on 3 oclock across the board, and that was very aggresive. When I plugged in my Route 66 for the last set, at the same volume it was just starting to break up. This was around 12:00 across the board so yes, the Rt 66 has more headroom. As far as the amp settings they start breaking up pretty much around the same place, give or take a little for bias adjustment and tube ratings, etc etc. Having said all that they are very different sounding amps, even though they kinda sound the same in some respects??? But I could certainly find uses for both of them. A good complimentary amp but maybe not a higher powered Z28 if you get my drift! Hope that makes a little sense!
|
|
yup
New Member
Posts: 32
|
Post by yup on Jul 19, 2006 9:03:56 GMT -7
Do you have the 5751 in the PI position or a 12ax7? Presuming you have the 5751, I've heard a few other people say similar things in regards to having the volume below 12:00 and I would say that was more of a reflection of the cabs. I know Tele62 didn't like his Z28 at quieter volumes and he would have run his through his 1-12. I would think a 1-12 might sound a little thin below 12:00 but it's still nice and juicy with Zbest. As far as headroom, I imagine you mean to compare them in volume. When I gigged with both, I had the Z28 on 3 oclock across the board, and that was very aggresive. When I plugged in my Route 66 for the last set, at the same volume it was just starting to break up. This was around 12:00 across the board so yes, the Rt 66 has more headroom. As far as the amp settings they start breaking up pretty much around the same place, give or take a little for bias adjustment and tube ratings, etc etc. Having said all that they are very different sounding amps, even though they kinda sound the same in some respects??? But I could certainly find uses for both of them. A good complimentary amp but maybe not a higher powered Z28 if you get my drift! Hope that makes a little sense! Tas, Thanks for the info. At the moment I've actually got a 12AY7 in the PI - gives me the headroom I need, however I think I'm going to give a 66 a go to see if I can get away from my OCD pedal for the higher gain stuff (higher gain as in - Unwanted Friend gain). I'd really like to be able to just use the ol' volume knob instead of having to kick on a pedal. I just missed a 66 on eBay for $900 - I should have went for the gold face one that no one bid on for $800 as it would have matched my gold face 28. Next time. ~I really need to try out a Z-Best Cab as well.~ The search continues... Thanks again for the info, Mike
|
|
|
Post by billyguitar on Jul 19, 2006 10:38:13 GMT -7
I wonder if anyone has rebiased and tried 6L6s in a Z28. May not be able to do that though.
|
|
|
Post by Curt on Jul 19, 2006 20:27:42 GMT -7
Do you have the 5751 in the PI position or a 12ax7? Presuming you have the 5751, I've heard a few other people say similar things in regards to having the volume below 12:00 and I would say that was more of a reflection of the cabs. I know Tele62 didn't like his Z28 at quieter volumes and he would have run his through his 1-12. I would think a 1-12 might sound a little thin below 12:00 but it's still nice and juicy with Zbest. As far as headroom, I imagine you mean to compare them in volume. When I gigged with both, I had the Z28 on 3 oclock across the board, and that was very aggresive. When I plugged in my Route 66 for the last set, at the same volume it was just starting to break up. This was around 12:00 across the board so yes, the Rt 66 has more headroom. As far as the amp settings they start breaking up pretty much around the same place, give or take a little for bias adjustment and tube ratings, etc etc. Having said all that they are very different sounding amps, even though they kinda sound the same in some respects??? But I could certainly find uses for both of them. A good complimentary amp but maybe not a higher powered Z28 if you get my drift! Hope that makes a little sense! Tas, Thanks for the info. At the moment I've actually got a 12AY7 in the PI - gives me the headroom I need, however I think I'm going to give a 66 a go to see if I can get away from my OCD pedal for the higher gain stuff (higher gain as in - Unwanted Friend gain). I'd really like to be able to just use the ol' volume knob instead of having to kick on a pedal. I just missed a 66 on eBay for $900 - I should have went for the gold face one that no one bid on for $800 as it would have matched my gold face 28. Next time. ~I really need to try out a Z-Best Cab as well.~ The search continues... Thanks again for the info, Mike I think that $900 Route 66 came my way !!! Heckuva deal IMO ;D And matches a Z cab I already have. Jaye refers back to my feelings several time in this thread, he has a great memory. He reflects my feelings on the Z/28 perfectly. I much prefer the Route 66, YMMV and probably will. I've had the better part of the Z amps available and for what I do and how I do it the 66 is the best fit......at this time
|
|
|
Post by taswegian on Jul 19, 2006 20:42:09 GMT -7
however I think I'm going to give a 66 a go to see if I can get away from my OCD pedal for the higher gain stuff (higher gain as in - Unwanted Friend gain). I'd really like to be able to just use the ol' volume knob instead of having to kick on a pedal. . ~I really need to try out a Z-Best Cab as well.~ The search continues... Thanks again for the info, Mike Mike, thanks for the "Unwanted Friend" reference. I like to call that "Big gain" as opposed to "High gain" as there really isn't that much gain happening on that track, it's a bit deceiving. The Z28 I played actually had a little more gain on tap than my 66 but that could be just bias, etc etc. That was recorded with all knobs on 3:00. Pretty loud but I actually prefer the cleans you get rolled back at that volume over the lower settings. You definitely get a bit more sparkle where as the lower settings are very "smokey". Hickory flavored I believe! Just wish I played more venues that allowed me to open it up like that. Yes, you should try a Z-Best out. I love that cab. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by prsnstrat on Nov 13, 2006 12:43:24 GMT -7
Wow, i'd like to know where you guys are playing where you are turning the Z-28 past 12:00!! I cannot turn my Z28 past 9:00 without taking the band's heads off, and I play with a LOUD drummer. I have a Bogner shiva that I can't even use because it is just too dang loud! Master vol or not!
|
|
|
Post by taswegian on Nov 13, 2006 19:47:56 GMT -7
Ha! Our drummer is about 6 foot 5 and a pretty big boy. He does alot of Jazz and world music gigs as well as blues gigs so when he gets in my trio he just lets it all hang out as he is also a rock head. Mind you, for me the strength of the band is the dynamics/light and shade we can produce and without a doubt the touch sensitivity of a Dr Z help with this. We can go from a ROAR to a whisper and quite a few songs show off that dynamic. When we're loud though we are pretty darn loud!
|
|
|
Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on Nov 14, 2006 19:50:31 GMT -7
Taz..You definitely seem to be a classic rock tone GURU.....(I have listened to your "myspace" links).....My Hero for sure.....As I am a ZEP freak....(We've already been there)..the 66 (per your recommend) seems to be the be all, end all....(barring a vintage plexi Marshall) for classic rock tone.... In your opinion, could an average, well.....maybe slightly "above average" player such as myself combine a Ghia and a 66 and achieve "tonal nirvana" at "average" sized American club gigs....Roughly anywhere between 100 - 300 seat clubs....?"??... I've been monitoring your posts, and you seem to think that your 66 may be overpowered for most clubs in your part of the "big island" (Up north ).....Whereas, Groovergeorge... (also a huge ZEP fan)...(down south???).....(forgive me.. as I am ignorant of your homeland's geography).....tells me that a Ghia will do most of what I need... ....... So far, it's been kill, albeit mic'd out the ying yang..... I realize that the Ghia may not "hang " in a loud situation, but so far, It's been pretty f'n sweet. However, as the Groover man told me early on, the Ghia and cranked humbuckers probably 'ain't the best marriage on the planet. ....Hard to beat for the blues though.. I'm thinkin' maybe I need a little more arse in my jeans for that classic stuff.....I remember you said Page would really dig a 66 if given the chance to stumble upon one.......A 66 and a Ghia in tandem maybe???.......Talk to me man...
|
|
|
Post by taswegian on Nov 15, 2006 3:47:48 GMT -7
Well thanks for the kind words Trock but I can assure you I'm no tone Guru, just a hack trying to make a living! Interesting how I'm wanting a Ghia for smaller gigs and you're wanting to fill the arse out in your jeans! The 66 would kill in a 100-300 person room especially if it's full. One thing about the 66 is, again like most of Z's amps it needs the right speakers for what you're trying to do. I love the Z best as it's as good as a lightweight quad. The Vintage 30 gives it that quad honk and woof and the G-12H30 is warm, with the lower mid growl and brown sounding. My 1-12 with a custom 35 watt celestian and low db specs (97db) works pretty well for smaller gigs. I can get it up to a nice breaking up level and it doesn't seem to get much louder as you push the amp harder. Just gets more compressed and browner! I understand Groovers statement about the Ghia and single coils. The Dean Parks demo sounds awesome with the strat and good with the humbucker. I still think with the right speaker set up it would sound great with humbuckers and I can't really imagine hearing my guitar not sounding so good through anything! For the bigger side of 100-300 club I think a ghia/Rt66 would be a killer rig. You could run the ghia quite hot, get some powertube overdrive with the el84 chime then have the 66 at breakup or more for the big fat underneath. I'd love to try that! ;D To cut a long story short I think the Rt 66 would work for any classic rock or blues artist.
Quick geography lesson, Groover lives in the North (warm) near the Tropic of Capricorn, Northern NSW. My sister lives up there too and absolutely loves it. I live on the island of Tasmania which is the little heart shaped (some have other descriptions) island under mainland Australia (South, cooler) so we are really Down Under, Down Under. By the way, I'm learning "Over the hills and far away" for the band at the moment. Love that track!
|
|
|
Post by groovergeorge on Nov 15, 2006 4:33:36 GMT -7
"Over the hills and far away"
My girl loves that one. I remember playing that one at a new age hippy festival in 2003. The majority of little girlies had never heard of it and thought I was some sort of acoustic-folk rock god but there were a few oldies who looked at me and just winked. Oh well I guess you can't fool all of the people all of the time. I always noodle on that one at home on my J45 and my girl doesn't crack it with me if she is watching T.V as I don't need to plug in. On our second date 5 years ago we went for a drive in the country. I remember asking her if she wanted to listen to some music during the trip. She said yes. I figure this is a good test. The minute she asks for some commercial pop crap she is out the door and walking. I put one of the disks from a limited release box set that I had of Led Zep on and turned it right up. She said later to me that's what did it for her. She was in love. It wasn't my looks,personality,humour or even driving skills but the fact that I was as big a Zep fan as her! 20 minutes into the trip we are both stomping our feet,wind in our hair with cd player blasting away to "Ramble On." I tell her that this track is one of my favourites and she says it's hers as well. The rest is history and we are still together and in love.
When you say that the 66' has that "Since I have been lovin you tone" it always puts a smile on my face Taz.
Rock on!
|
|
|
Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on Nov 15, 2006 15:01:25 GMT -7
You guys are makin' me wanna cry talkin' about girls and cars and ZEP.....
I DEFinetly gotta get "down under"........
|
|
|
Post by groovergeorge on Nov 16, 2006 2:39:48 GMT -7
Yeh the hippy festival was lots of fun. It was like stepping back to 1969 and Woodstock, heaps of dreadlocks,beads,tie dye, people covered in mud from head to toe,marijuana floating around in the air and people swimming around the river murray in the nude. I was there more for the whole spirituality of course and didn't get distracted by all the goings on. Go check out the pix if you like. The site is www.dte.org.auIt was loads of fun
|
|