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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 6, 2006 9:40:20 GMT -7
Most of you already know, I have a Z28 1/12 combo with a Greenback that I am able to crank pretty hard at times...and sometimes wish I had a bit more headroom. Heres my usual setup... RC Booster Gain - noon Treble - 1-2 Bass - 11-12 Volume - 3 to max
The amp settings vary considerably but for the "crankin" gigs I usually start with... Volume - 2 Treble - 1 Bass - 12-1
With these settings and my parts tele, I can leave the RC on and get clean, slightly dirty to really dirty with just a twist of the guitars volume knob. If we are in a lower volume situation I will turn the amps volume down and manipulate the guitar volume less than usual and kick in another pedal for more overdriven sounds.
I would like to put a more efficient speaker in the Z and have pretty much decided on a Private Jack since I already like the tone of the Greenback.
My question is this... As far as my overdriven sound is concerned, what do you think I will lose going with the PJ? Will the same settings sound the same, only louder?
Same question, different angle... How much does the breakup of the Greenback add to my overdriven sound now?
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Post by Curt on Apr 6, 2006 12:10:55 GMT -7
Hey Ronnie, I'm no real help with your question, but I can offer you some assistance. I have a Weber Ceramic 30 watt Blue Dog, little use, Said to be Ted's take on a green back, if you'd like to try it I'll send it to you, if you like it I paid $85 for it from Madison, I'd like that back for it, if ya don't just pay to ship it back.
Curt
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 6, 2006 12:20:13 GMT -7
Hey Ronnie, I'm no real help with your question, but I can offer you some assistance. I have a Weber Ceramic 30 watt Blue Dog, little use, Said to be Ted's take on a green back, if you'd like to try it I'll send it to you, if you like it I paid $85 for it from Madison, I'd like that back for it, if ya don't just pay to ship it back. Curt I might take you up on that offer. What was your opinion of that speaker? Likes? Dislikes? I also might talk to Ted before you go thru the trouble of shipping it.
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Post by Curt on Apr 6, 2006 12:41:14 GMT -7
Ronnie, I am used to V-30's, my ears are slow to adjust to new tones for what ever reason. With the V-30 being very Mid rangy the Blue dog seemed a little bright to me, but so do all the other speakers I have tried. I actually played it very little and did not do much tone knob tweaking. I was looking to CUT volume and it did not do that, you should find it more effecient/louder than your GB. I would call Ted and get his take. Also, It is probably not fully broken it yet. Details; It is Ceramic, 30 watt, light dope.
Cool either way, just drop me a note if ya wanna try it Bud,
Curt
Also, I am very pleased with my Sr.
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BigMike
Junior Member
The Mykkus Abides
Posts: 89
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Post by BigMike on Apr 9, 2006 20:44:17 GMT -7
i did that same swap for awhile.
Didn't effect much in the way of the overdrive tone. I thought it worked very well. A good way to get a more efficient version of that greenback tone, with a little tighter bass.
Good option
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 10, 2006 7:20:30 GMT -7
i did that same swap for awhile. Didn't effect much in the way of the overdrive tone. I thought it worked very well. A good way to get a more efficient version of that greenback tone, with a little tighter bass. Good option Mike, Are you refering to the Private Jack or the Weber that Curt offered?
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Post by BW on Apr 11, 2006 17:31:39 GMT -7
Ronnie, you're welcome to try this Swamp Thang I just bought...or I could just plug in out in the yard, you could open a window down there and probably hear it jes' fine...DANG what a loud speaker. Bright and clean, til ya crank 'er up, then ..bright and not quite as clean.
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 12, 2006 6:56:37 GMT -7
Ronnie, you're welcome to try this Swamp Thang I just bought...or I could just plug in out in the yard, you could open a window down there and probably hear it jes' fine...DANG what a loud speaker. Bright and clean, til ya crank 'er up, then ..bright and not quite as clean. Were you playin Smoke on the Water about 10:30 last night? Might have been the neighbors kids... I have a Tonker at home and I just cant seem to get along with it...tried it in the 38 and the 28 both...seemed like too much low end for me. But then again, I stuck the Weber California back into the 38 and it sounds about the same as the Tonker so maybe Im just crazy. I guess I should put the Tonker into the Z28, take it to a gig and force myself to deal with it for one night.
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Post by taswegian on Apr 12, 2006 7:12:57 GMT -7
Good Idea. It never ceases to amaze me how much "clearer" you hear things live, especially if its the same room and band you often play with. Often puts thing in perspective for me. I can't count the number of times I've hauled off to a gig looking forward to my "new" sound or pedal or something that sounded great at home alone, only to be disappointed at the gig. I reckon the gig is the "iron test".
You could ship your Z28 to me and I'll tell you how it sounds with my ZBest...I'll send it back....I promise ;D
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Post by Curt on Apr 12, 2006 7:20:48 GMT -7
I'm sure every single one of us has had that happen Jaye. What a disapointment !!! All stoked about this tone ya got goin'on..fire up at the gig....and......CRAP...! this ain't what I wanted !! LOL Has not happened with my MAZ Sr, and the Route 66 was actually the opposite, sounded BETTER at the gig then at home... Why did I sell it again? ? Dumb aZZ........
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Post by taswegian on Apr 12, 2006 7:40:44 GMT -7
The Route 66 DEFINITELY has to be gigged to appreciate fully. Alone you kinda go "wow this is nice, could use a bit more...a bit less...." then in the band context you just go..."man, don't change a thing"! It is voiced superbly (Except maybe volume, which may need to be "managed") ;D
Which brings us back to the Z28!!! ;D
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Post by taswegian on Apr 12, 2006 7:42:25 GMT -7
By the way Curt...No one with a Stingray and a Maz 38 is a dumbazzz!
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 12, 2006 7:50:32 GMT -7
Yes its true...playing live is the real test for any piece of equipment and I realize this...its just that the Z28/Greenback is such a sweet combination...fear of the unknown I guess.
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Post by Curt on Apr 12, 2006 7:54:16 GMT -7
By the way Curt...No one with a Stingray and a Maz 38 is a dumbazzz! LOL Ms. Curt may have a differing opinion on that subject.....
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Post by taswegian on Apr 12, 2006 8:28:07 GMT -7
I know this is kinda a ridiculous question Rcrecelius, but how much louder is that Z28/Greenback combination than your mini at your gig levels? Would you say for example, a little bit louder with heaps more headroom, or HEAPS louder with lots more headroom? Sorry, I know it's impossible to answer but that (Z28/Greenback) sounds like a nice "cranked amp combination"
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Post by Curt on Apr 12, 2006 8:34:28 GMT -7
Jaye, gonna step in for Ronnie here..since his Mini wuZ my Mini..I have not played the 28/Greenback, but the 28/V-30 is 10 fold louder than the Mini. I swear My Z/28 is as loud, and perceived LOUDER than my Route 66 was, Tubes? Bias rate? Dunno...Same speaker and cab too, and the Z 28 has more high end, less mids, and comparable bottom.
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Post by zdogma on Apr 12, 2006 8:56:23 GMT -7
That makes sense. I think it has to do with the frequency range that the V30 produces.
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Post by Telemanic on Apr 12, 2006 9:02:24 GMT -7
Rcrecelius, i gotta chime in about my favorite speaker right now. Its the Emi- 121 legend. The tonker and swamp are derivatives of it. Both having more bottom, and the tonk being brighter, the swamp- darker. The 121 is sonically more Honest i feel, in that the swamp /tonk seem to accentuate some freqs, in a way i didnt like. The 121 just gives you pretty much what your amps makin, ( WITH ) really nice, natural mids. It is a higher wattage speak, so i think it should give you some nice headroom, but i also have no problem driving it with a little power, and gettin a nice celestion-y bark out of it. Amazing speaker. I use it in an Earcandy 1-12 soverign cab with my 66 and its wonderful!
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 12, 2006 10:17:45 GMT -7
I know this is kinda a ridiculous question Rcrecelius, but how much louder is that Z28/Greenback combination than your mini at your gig levels? Would you say for example, a little bit louder with heaps more headroom, or HEAPS louder with lots more headroom? Sorry, I know it's impossible to answer but that (Z28/Greenback) sounds like a nice "cranked amp combination" The Z28/Greenback is a great combination...but sometimes I wish I had just a little bit more. I'd say the Z28/GB is considerably louder than the Mini the way I run it with the boost up front...the Mini with the same boost compresses more (a lot more)without getting much louder. My wife will be gone this weekend so maybe I can drag all the amps inside for a speaker/loudness test.
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 13, 2006 4:54:12 GMT -7
Ok...I woke up early this morning and did a little testing. I played through the Greenback, a Weber California, and the Tonker and all of them sounded pretty good...not as much difference as I remembered. Looking back, I realize that I tried the Tonker when I first got the Z28 and wasnt yet comfortable with the tone controls. To make a long story short, I put the Tonker in the Z28 for tonights gig...I'll give ya'll a report tomorrow as to whether its gonna stay in or not.
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Post by Bill on Apr 13, 2006 5:11:20 GMT -7
Ok...I woke up early this morning and did a little testing. I played through the Greenback, a Weber California, and the Tonker and all of them sounded pretty good...not as much difference as I remembered. Looking back, I realize that I tried the Tonker when I first got the Z28 and wasnt yet comfortable with the tone controls. To make a long story short, I put the Tonker in the Z28 for tonights gig...I'll give ya'll a report tomorrow as to whether its gonna stay in or not. If the Tonker doesn't work out, at least you know the GB sounds killer...your "Folsom Prison" clip with the GB is proof enough! I do know a Tonker is much louder & cleaner than a green. I recently put mine in a Blues Jr just for fun...it rocks!
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 13, 2006 6:28:55 GMT -7
Ok...I woke up early this morning and did a little testing. I played through the Greenback, a Weber California, and the Tonker and all of them sounded pretty good...not as much difference as I remembered. Looking back, I realize that I tried the Tonker when I first got the Z28 and wasnt yet comfortable with the tone controls. To make a long story short, I put the Tonker in the Z28 for tonights gig...I'll give ya'll a report tomorrow as to whether its gonna stay in or not. If the Tonker doesn't work out, at least you know the GB sounds killer...your "Folsom Prison" clip with the GB is proof enough! I do know a Tonker is much louder & cleaner than a green. I recently put mine in a Blues Jr just for fun...it rocks! Thanks Madison...that GB will go right back in if I'm not at least 99% happy with the Tonker tonight!
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 14, 2006 7:03:18 GMT -7
Heres last nights gig report... Played the usual place with the Tonker...immediately I could tell I had more clean headroom. I tinkered (guess that would be Tonker tinkering huh?)with the controls throughout the first set trying to get comfortable(also had a new pedal, a Bad Bob boost, so that adding to the tweaking involved...ending up using the Bad Bob all night instead of the RC) and ended up with my volume and tone controls set almost the same as I normally do...but with those settings I had more clean/less drive when turning the guitars volume up. The Tonker sounded good...a big sounding speaker with round tight low end.
Now, about that low end... Those of you who play a tele probably know about the battle to get your low/high strings tonally balanced...with most amps, by the time you add enough highs to make the low strings sound good, the high strings are too bright/piercing...take the highs out and the low strings are muddy. With the Greenback, that battle was won...the low end seems to be "rolled off" enough in just the right frequencies to compliment a tele bridge pickup real well...you get a nice, bright, low end that isnt muddy. The Tonker's low end gave me a really "beefed up" sound but for my ears, I dont like it as well with the teles bridge pickup...it sounds good, just wish it had a little less low end. I really cant say it was muddy, just that my low strings didnt have that "snap" that Im used to hearing. So what did I learn last night and where do I go from here? Well, I definitely liked having the more efficient/louder speaker...even during the last set when the club was packed and we were "loud as all getout", I never felt like I needed "more". The only downside to having the more efficient speaker is that I will probably have to depend on an OD pedal a little more...which isnt necessarily a bad thing. It is also my opinion that the Greenback was a big contributor to my overdriven sound...without it, there isnt nearly as much overdrive available without the help of an additional pedal. Also worth noting, the fuzziness I had complained about in the "Heaven" soundclip was non-existent when using the Tonker. I'll probably leave the Tonker in until I decide what Im going to replace it with.
telemaniac... Have you ever compared your Legend to a Greenback?
Curt, Do you still have that Blue Dog available?
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Post by Bill on Apr 14, 2006 7:16:39 GMT -7
rc, as one who appreciates an eye for detail, I like the way you used green font referring to the GB and red font for the Red Coat Tonker! ;D worthy of karma, brother!
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 14, 2006 14:09:07 GMT -7
rc, as one who appreciates an eye for detail, I like the way you used green font referring to the GB and red font for the Red Coat Tonker! ;D worthy of karma, brother! hehe...thanks...I decided to get creative
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 15, 2006 1:39:40 GMT -7
Well, Curt's Blue Dog is already spoken for so I went ahead ordered a Private Jack.
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Post by rcrecelius on Apr 21, 2006 6:50:26 GMT -7
I got the Private Jack installed and played a gig with it last night. It didnt sound as loud as the Tonker...the low end was more to my liking but it was lacking in the high end. Overall, it sounded kinda stiff...Im assuming it needs to be broken in before it will sound its best.
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Post by stratdev on May 23, 2006 18:03:14 GMT -7
My experience with the Tonker is similar. It seemed, at least from my position 3-4 feet in front of it, that the low end sort of swallowed some of my upper mids and highs. Perhaps, just perhaps, the new Tonker Lite may just fix some of that. I'm just havin' a hard time ordering a speaker with a 4 ounce magnet... www.eminence.com/guitar_speaker_detail.asp?model=TONKERLITE&speaker_size=12&SUB_CAT_ID=4The magnet looks like a checker glued on. That said, I'm still dyin' to hear the T-Lite. But when push comes to shove, and I have to decide what I'm taking to the gig, it's almost always a Z-Best with 2 Blues. The Z-Best bolsters the bottom, and the top is perfect for my ears... Alan
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Post by rcrecelius on Jun 6, 2006 8:59:03 GMT -7
I decided I would update this thread now that Ive got some playing time on the new PJ speaker. This speaker sounds real good if you can get several feet away from it...in the small stages we frequent, I cant get far enough away from it to hear the high end so Ive ordered a beam blocker to see if it will help disperse those highs a little bit. If the BB works, I might try that Tonker one more time with BB installed just for grins.
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